TSJ Thread

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#351      
1. This only affects TSJ's ability to participate in basketball team activities. His scholarship, ability to attend school and even to use DIA facilities are not affected.
2. Due to their heightened visibility, student-athletes have to agree to a code of conduct that goes beyond what other students are subject to under OSCR.
3. Scholarships and other benefits provided to student-athletes serve as a form of consideration for agreeing to live under additional rules.
Here’s a long read, for those interested, into just how much a can of worms this is.
Last week, we began discussing Radwan v. Manuel, a case recently decided by the U.S. Circuit Court for the Second Circuit regarding discipline faced by a soccer player at the University of Connecticut, a public institution. This week’s discussion will center on the amount of process that was due to the player before discipline could be imposed.
1. This only affects TSJ's ability to participate in basketball team activities. His scholarship, ability to attend school and even to use DIA facilities are not affected.
2. Due to their heightened visibility, student-athletes have to agree to a code of conduct that goes beyond what other students are subject to under OSCR.
3. Scholarships and other benefits provided to student-athletes serve as a form of consideration for agreeing to live under additional rules.

Constitutional due process provides for an appropriate review prior to the infringement of individual rights by public entities, including public institutions of higher education.[ii] The amount of process due before a right can be interfered with depends upon whether the right is constitutionally protected, and the nature of that right. For example, those facing potential imprisonment receive more process than those who may need to pay a parking fine.
In this case, the University argued that there could be no constitutionally protected property interest in the scholarship for two reasons. First, because the student-athletes sign an agreement stating that their scholarships could be terminated if they engaged in serious misconduct, and second because nonrenewal of a scholarship does not create a protected interest. The District Court hearing this case agreed with the University of Connecticut that college athletes’ scholarships are not protected property interests.
However, during appellate review by the Second Circuit, the Court looked to whether the interest in the scholarship is protected under state law, and then at the importance of the interest to the holder of that interest (Radwan). Addressing the first inquiry, the Court found that Connecticut is an at-will employment state, therefore employees only have a reliance expectation in continued employment when there is a contract providing a fixed period of employment. While Radwan was not an employee, the Court used the same logic with regard to determining whether Radwan had a reliance interest in the scholarship: the agreement was set for a fixed duration of time (one year) subject to termination for cause. Next, the Court determined the importance of the interest by evaluating Radwan’s dependence on the scholarship. The athletic scholarship granted to Radwan, and many other student-athletes, served as the “exclusive source of funding for housing, college tuition, and books.”[iii] Radwan’s dependence weighed heavily enough for the Court to make the final determination that Radwan’s scholarship was in fact a protected property interest.
That was not the end of the inquiry, however. The Court also had to determine whether the University’s administrators were immune from the claims. Qualified immunity is available where constitutional rights may have been violated, but was not clearly established such that public officials knew what they were doing was impermissible. Because the Second Circuit had not previously clearly established that the loss of such scholarships entitled students to due process, the Court affirmed the grant of summary judgment to the University and provided qualified immunity to the University and the relevant administrators that had not known to provide such process.
Because qualified immunity was granted, the Court did not need to address what process would be due in future situations of scholarship termination. However, other courts have noted that at its most basic form, the question of what level of due process is owed when dealing with the deprivation of a protected property interest is notice of the charges, and a meaningful opportunity to be heard.
What a meaningful opportunity to be heard looks like depends on what is potentially being lost by the holder of the interest. Is the holder owed a chance to speak with the decision maker before a final determination is made, can they be represented by an attorney in the institution’s process, and do they have a right to a hearing before a neutral decision-maker with cross-examination available? The Supreme Court has provided a balancing test to potentially address this question. In Mathews v. Eldridge[iv], the Court provided three competing factors to weigh in determining the appropriate level of procedural due process: 1) The importance of the interest subject to termination to the holder, 2) the value of additional procedural protections to prevent the erroneous deprivation of that interest, and 3) the administrative burdens on the school in providing those additional protections. This balancing test has been used in the context of the disciplinary process that must be provided by public institutions of higher education before students can be subject to suspension or dismissal for misconduct. Radwan alleged that her case was handled by an internal athletics process, which may not have been based on this balancing test, instead of through the usual student disciplinary process, which at most institutions is used, challenged, and revised more regularly.
While this ruling narrowly applies to college student-athletes on scholarship in Connecticut, the reasoning may be used as a persuasive argument in other Circuits facilitating new standards for athletic disciplinary protections in similar cases. Public institutions of higher education should consider the potential constitutional implications of their current athletic disciplinary procedures in light of this new ruling.
Next week’s release of the final installment in the series on this case will address the Court’s ruling on Title IX Selective Enforcement cases and overall considerations on the ruling going forward.”

I think this is why Shannon’s attorneys are trying so hard to establish a property intereat being affected by his inability to play​

 
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#352      
The lawyers involved submitted a ****load of citations (legal term of art) and she and her law clerks will be reading those and trying to determine the level of bull**** involved. I hate to tell you guys this, but lawyers sometimes stretch the meaning of cases to try to make a point, even if there's no real point to be made. In a list of citations numbering 100 or more, maybe 3-5 will be pertinent.
WHAT?


ACDD2D36-6C98-4C38-85E5-14A55CE4FDF0.gif
 
#353      
Does a suspension by the university impact eligibility from an NCAA perspective? It would seem that the least harmful outcome for all parties would be to treat the athlete as a redshirt altogether until the suspension is resolved permanently one way or the other, equivalent to an injury.
Or I could just be going stir crazy from four snow days this week.
He already played. I don't think there is a suspension redshirt.
 
#356      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
Are we sure? Because Geoff's statement says Saturday morning.

View attachment 30159
sloppy writing
it’s a 7 hr - 8hr drive from KU to UI

I’ve read in multiple areas the NIL meeting was Sunday morning
the game was over at 10:30 on Fri night
they went to the bars from 11pm until 2:30 am on Sat .
they drove home to CU on Sat aft- evening
 
#357      

illinifan31

Former Krush Cow
South Bend, IN
"the alleged sexual misconduct incident did not occur within the context of a program or activity under the University’s purview, the University did not exercise or have substantial control over Plaintiff or the bar he visited, and that the alleged incident fell outside of Title IX jurisdiction as defined by federal regulations and the University’s policies. Id. ¶ 8. The Panel determined that the interim action to withhold Plaintiff from organized team activities should remain in place pending resolution of the charges against him stemming from the September 2023 incident in Kansas and subject to the Panel’s ability to consider new information if it becomes available."

It kind of sounds like the panel took no action because they felt they didn't have any jurisdiction because it happened off of campus and was not a university activity?
 
#358      
Talk about BS. TSJ left off midseason Wooden Award watch list. I guess they already decided he's not coming back. When he does, and he goes back to tearing up opponents both on D and on O, will they release an amended list?
Don't have to explain the reasoning behind them leaving him off the list, I get that. Just don't like it and think it's BS.
 
#359      
Missing most of what is likely his final season of eligibility already does irreparable harm. Period.

He earned the privilege of playing college basketball at a high level. If the rest of his season is taken away without just cause; that loss can't be restored.

That would be true even if he wasn't an NBA prospect.

I agree that not being able to play this season creates irreparable harm for him. My point is that there is no way to prove that the irreparable harm is losing the ability to be drafted at a higher pick. There's no denying that if he finished out the season playing the way he had been before the suspension his stock would have increased. However, It's also possible that his playing could have harmed his draft stock. I used the potential of incurring a major injury such as an ACL tear as an example, God forbid even in a hypothetical. I think it's a difficult argument to win simply because we will never know how it would have played out had he not been suspended. It's unfortunate but the loss that cannot be restored has already occurred and it's very difficult to put a value on that loss. Let's just hope the truth prevails and that we get TSJ back wearing the orange and blue improving said draft stock.
 
#360      
I was saying that he is dropping in the mocks but 'yeah him not playing isn't affecting his draft status'. like sarcasm
Uh, my take would be that being arrest for sexual assault DEFINITELY affects draft status. If he had appendicitis and missed the 2nd half of his college season, it would not affect his draft status.
 
#361      
He already played. I don't think there is a suspension redshirt.
I know he already played, and I'm 100% sure there's no suspension redshirt. I'm just wondering if it makes sense as a mitigation in open-ended situations like this.
 
#362      
sloppy writing
it’s a 7 hr - 8hr drive from KU to UI

I’ve read in multiple areas the NIL meeting was Sunday morning
the game was over at 10:30 on Fri night
they went to the bars from 11pm until 2:30 am on Sat .
they drove home to CU on Sat aft- evening
I’m not doubting that you’ve read multiple things — so have I, and many of them are contradictory. But I doubt there would be “sloppy writing” in an official statement to the court, especially when Geoff said he was concerned about TSJ driving to Lawrence and back in such a condensed timeframe.

That said, if there’s something confirming that NIL event was Sunday, I’d love to see that. But it’s hard to disagree with a sworn court statement.
 
#363      
Title IX has only one purpose, and that is to prevent sexual discrimination/harassment in college athletics. TJ's complaint does not and cannot allege that he has in any way, shape or form been the victim of sexual discrimination or harassment. Without that premise, I see no way to successfully argue that Title IX has anything to do with this case.
First, in this case, TSJ is the accused offender, not the alleged victim.

Now why would his lawyers bring this up? Because:

"Had Illinois applied Title IX, it could not suspend TJ from the Team unless and until Illinois’ Title IX coordinator “undertakes an individualized safety and risk analysis, [and] determines that an immediate threat to the physical health or safety of any student or other individual arising from the allegations of sexual harassment justifies removal, and provides the respondent with notice and an opportunity to challenge the decision immediately following the removal” (“Title IX Risk Analysis”). 34 CFR §106.44(c)"

Next, upon what basis would Title IX even apply? It was off campus, and the alleged victim is not a UI student.

TSJ's lawyers are using the substantial control test and cited precedents. As a lawyer, I am sure you realize substantial and control have legal meanings.

"The alleged conduct took place in an “education program or activity” of Illinois’ because Illinois exercised substantial control over both TJ and the alleged context in which the alleged incident occurred. See, 34 CFR §106.44(a)"
 
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#364      
1. This only affects TSJ's ability to participate in basketball team activities. His scholarship, ability to attend school and even to use DIA facilities are not affected.
2. Due to their heightened visibility, student-athletes have to agree to a code of conduct that goes beyond what other students are subject to under OSCR.
3. Scholarships and other benefits provided to student-athletes serve as a form of consideration for agreeing to live under additional rules.

So your position is people give up their due process rights by agreeing to it with compensation?

So as an employer, I can just make up any rule and as long as I pay employees for giving up their rights, it's all good?

IANAL, but I am eligible to be a US Supreme Court Justice.
 
#368      
1. This only affects TSJ's ability to participate in basketball team activities. His scholarship, ability to attend school and even to use DIA facilities are not affected.
2. Due to their heightened visibility, student-athletes have to agree to a code of conduct that goes beyond what other students are subject to under OSCR.
3. Scholarships and other benefits provided to student-athletes serve as a form of consideration for agreeing to live under additional rules.
The University is entitled to enforce its self-serving DIA policy, and is only subject to judicial review if it acts arbitrarily and capricious while enforcing the policy. The problem is that its policy is inadequate. The college itself admits it in its response to the TRO, when it contrasts its own policy with that of Brown University which requires reasonable cause to believe the conduct in question will continue, or a finding that an athlete is a serious threat to the community before suspension. The University let its athletes down when it adopted such a self serving policy. Why adopt a policy that ill serves your own students?
 
#373      
Here’s a long read, for those interested, into just how much a can of worms this is.
Last week, we began discussing Radwan v. Manuel, a case recently decided by the U.S. Circuit Court for the Second Circuit regarding discipline faced by a soccer player at the University of Connecticut, a public institution. This week’s discussion will center on the amount of process that was due to the player before discipline could be imposed.


Constitutional due process provides for an appropriate review prior to the infringement of individual rights by public entities, including public institutions of higher education.[ii] The amount of process due before a right can be interfered with depends upon whether the right is constitutionally protected, and the nature of that right. For example, those facing potential imprisonment receive more process than those who may need to pay a parking fine.
In this case, the University argued that there could be no constitutionally protected property interest in the scholarship for two reasons. First, because the student-athletes sign an agreement stating that their scholarships could be terminated if they engaged in serious misconduct, and second because nonrenewal of a scholarship does not create a protected interest. The District Court hearing this case agreed with the University of Connecticut that college athletes’ scholarships are not protected property interests.
However, during appellate review by the Second Circuit, the Court looked to whether the interest in the scholarship is protected under state law, and then at the importance of the interest to the holder of that interest (Radwan). Addressing the first inquiry, the Court found that Connecticut is an at-will employment state, therefore employees only have a reliance expectation in continued employment when there is a contract providing a fixed period of employment. While Radwan was not an employee, the Court used the same logic with regard to determining whether Radwan had a reliance interest in the scholarship: the agreement was set for a fixed duration of time (one year) subject to termination for cause. Next, the Court determined the importance of the interest by evaluating Radwan’s dependence on the scholarship. The athletic scholarship granted to Radwan, and many other student-athletes, served as the “exclusive source of funding for housing, college tuition, and books.”[iii] Radwan’s dependence weighed heavily enough for the Court to make the final determination that Radwan’s scholarship was in fact a protected property interest.
That was not the end of the inquiry, however. The Court also had to determine whether the University’s administrators were immune from the claims. Qualified immunity is available where constitutional rights may have been violated, but was not clearly established such that public officials knew what they were doing was impermissible. Because the Second Circuit had not previously clearly established that the loss of such scholarships entitled students to due process, the Court affirmed the grant of summary judgment to the University and provided qualified immunity to the University and the relevant administrators that had not known to provide such process.
Because qualified immunity was granted, the Court did not need to address what process would be due in future situations of scholarship termination. However, other courts have noted that at its most basic form, the question of what level of due process is owed when dealing with the deprivation of a protected property interest is notice of the charges, and a meaningful opportunity to be heard.
What a meaningful opportunity to be heard looks like depends on what is potentially being lost by the holder of the interest. Is the holder owed a chance to speak with the decision maker before a final determination is made, can they be represented by an attorney in the institution’s process, and do they have a right to a hearing before a neutral decision-maker with cross-examination available? The Supreme Court has provided a balancing test to potentially address this question. In Mathews v. Eldridge[iv], the Court provided three competing factors to weigh in determining the appropriate level of procedural due process: 1) The importance of the interest subject to termination to the holder, 2) the value of additional procedural protections to prevent the erroneous deprivation of that interest, and 3) the administrative burdens on the school in providing those additional protections. This balancing test has been used in the context of the disciplinary process that must be provided by public institutions of higher education before students can be subject to suspension or dismissal for misconduct. Radwan alleged that her case was handled by an internal athletics process, which may not have been based on this balancing test, instead of through the usual student disciplinary process, which at most institutions is used, challenged, and revised more regularly.
While this ruling narrowly applies to college student-athletes on scholarship in Connecticut, the reasoning may be used as a persuasive argument in other Circuits facilitating new standards for athletic disciplinary protections in similar cases. Public institutions of higher education should consider the potential constitutional implications of their current athletic disciplinary procedures in light of this new ruling.
Next week’s release of the final installment in the series on this case will address the Court’s ruling on Title IX Selective Enforcement cases and overall considerations on the ruling going forward.”

I think this is why Shannon’s attorneys are trying so hard to establish a property intereat being affected by his inability to play​


Good write-up.

As an aside, Qualified Immunity is a court created disgrace, and was likely incorrectly applied in the Connecticut case, but I won't bore people with that discussion.
 
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