TSJ Thread

[derrick6]

Agreed. Those who thought that this would be resolved in a quick fashion, were hopeful. Nothing wrong with that.

That said, this is going to be a long process and the law doesn't care about a basketball season. If TJ is lucky, things will be resolved before the draft. If the process is status quo....it's probably the summer.

To be honest, a lot of thought said January/February, which is still within the realm of possibility.

The thought of TJ being on court sooner also seemed tied to a quick ruling on the TRO in his favor.

That said, clearly all of the dna talk and speculation was based solely on hearsay and possibly zero facts (Ked took the bait).

I pray for all in this matter.

 

[mrh vet]

In a lot of cases yes, but this DA has a track record of doing these things with very little evidence

He was not indicted. A grand jury indictment would have probably have cut the total pages on TSJ threads in half

 

[Illiniindian]

Agreed. Those who thought that this would be resolved in a quick fashion, were hopeful. Nothing wrong with that.

That said, this is going to be a long process and the law doesn't care about a basketball season. If TJ is lucky, things will be resolved before the draft. If the process is status quo....it's probably the summer.

Everything you said makes sense, but it is painful to hear and does create the potential to destroy Terrance’s life correct? I think that’s why many of us are struggling to accept this.

 

[WhiteHorseWings]

This text should be everyone's lock screen background.

Except that, ostensibly reporting on legal proceedings while misusing the term hearsay in the same way most people do is not exactly an argument for credibility

 

[mhuml32]

Yes. 100x worse then what TSJ is accused of.

Ignore the facts and potential future details being released in each situation - I promise you that you would be just as heated, likely angrier, if Illinois had indefinitely suspended Shannon for a civil lawsuit happening outside the U.S.

 

[illinifan31]

I could be wrong on the details but isn’t Pop Issac for Texas Tech currently playing while being accused of sexually assaulting a drunk minor?

Accused is not charged. Which you know of course.

There is a huge difference in the eyes of how a school handles those two things, including our own.

 

[illinifan31]

TBF, you can believe it would be handled EXACTLY the same at every other university while still thinking it is unfair and presumes someone like TJ to be guilty.

For sure. But I've seen people specifically calling out Illinois for how they've handled it as if it's any different than any other university. If anything, the panel makes things better than other universities. Most places absolutely wouldn't let him back till charges are resolved.

 

[NarrowJ]

To be honest, a lot of thought said January/February, which is still within the realm of possibility.

The thought of TJ being on court sooner also seemed tied to a quick ruling on the TRO in his favor.

That said, clearly all of the dna talk and speculation was based solely on hearsay and possibly zero facts (Ked took the bait).

I pray for all in this matter.

Wait... so the stuff Ked said about the DNA was incorrect? In what way?

 

[IlliniKat91]

Wait... so the stuff Ked said about the DNA was incorrect? In what way?

Not sure if it's incorrect but it's likely incomplete. If TSJ's legal team just requested all the investigative materials from the KBI, there's no way the can definitively day that his DNA isn't present. At least not yet, anyway.

Now, based on the activity the accuser claims went on, the odds are slim it's present, but not impossible. We won't know until/if the defense releases that information

 

[NarrowJ]

Not sure if it's incorrect but it's likely incomplete. If TSJ's legal team just requested all the investigative materials from the KBI, there's no way the can definitively day that his DNA isn't present. At least not yet, anyway.

Now, based on the activity the accuser claims went on, the odds are slim it's present, but not impossible. We won't know until/if the defense releases that information

I'm unsure exactly in what way it would be incomplete. We're saying there is more and/or different DNA testing that is still coming?

 

[IlliniKat91]

I'm unsure exactly in what way it would be incomplete. We're saying there is more and/or different DNA testing that is still coming?

That's my best guess. And that he's just going off the family's information. In my experience, the cops don't tell you the whole story, even if you're the subject of an investigation. They investigate and hand info over to the DA. They aren't there to help the defense build their case, so why would they tell them anything?

 

[Illini_1105]

I am very good friends with a long time prosecuting attorney. He said Terrance Shannon would not have been indicted. if the prosecutor did not feel he had enough evidence to convict. Most likely TSJ will not play again for the U of I. Sad, but true.

This is where my thought process has been too.

The time to prevent the dog and pony show was before the indictment. If everything we are hearing about the proof/evidences provided during the indictment is true, then a competent DA would have seen and known that there was no way this was going to be won and wouldn't have pressed charges at all to begin with; it would be a waste of department resources.

But, unfortunately, the DA went ahead and charged. Now, if what we hear to believe to be true, then TSJ will have his day in court and be found innocent if he continues to choose to fight, but the damage has already been done - the DA moved forward with the charges. The only way to clear his name is to, indeed, clear his name in court through the drawn out legal process. I feel like it is too late.

All that really matters for him, though, is that he can make it to the league. I will be able to cope with a season without TSJ and having my heart ripped out, that is fine. But, I'd feel much, much worse if TSJ becomes another statistic. I hope he fights like hell.

 

[nichi]

That is a civil case, not a criminal case.

There is still credible evidence of a major offense. The difference is it clearly took place at a university sponsored event. Therefore, they have to follow the Title 9 process.

 

[EllderIlliniFan]

All that really matters for him, though, is that he can make it to the league. I will be able to cope with a season without TSJ and having my heart ripped out, that is fine. But, I'd feel much, much worse if TSJ becomes another statistic. I hope he fights like hell.

Although at this point it would be great if he could play for Illinois, the most important issue is maximizing his opportunity to play and earn money in the NBA. I am sure this is how his attorneys are approaching this even to the point of sacrificing opportunitiess to play at Illinois to raise his probability of succeeding in making it in the NBA. Most on this board will hardly recall all of this in 3 or 4 years but TSJ is dealing with this for the rest of his life.

 

[cjw1901]

How about from underwear? She told the investigator he put his hands inside her underwear at the leg opening. The underwear were collected as evidence at the hospital.

I noticed that the PCA uses the singular (not the plural) when Det. Leitner wrote, "where her underwear was collected". This underwear collection at LMH was likely done about 17 hours after the incident, and the alleged victim likely slept from around 4 am until around noon on 9/9. She called police around 2:47 pm and only went to LCH after interacting with police around 4 to 5 pm. This is how I'm getting the 17 hours, since the incident was between midnight and 12:55 am on 9/9, and I expect she didn't wait too long to see the SANE at LMH.

I think it is worth noting that the underwear that the alleged victim wore to the hospital and was collected might not be the same underwear she wore when the incident occurred. On the other hand, I guess it is possible she didn't change her underwear or that she bagged the underwear and brought it with her either to talk to police or before she went to LMH. Anyway, there could still be some surprises about this underwear.

 

[danielb927]

3) Until more becomes available … this case seems like a joke.

4) Believing #3 before we get “all the facts” isn’t just entirely reasonable, it should be the moral default for any man or woman accused of something that they adamantly deny.

5) #4 takes nothing away from A-N-Y other sexual assault case or any perceived broader problem regarding sexual assault. TJ and, frankly, the victim deserve this case to be viewed in isolation. If you see viewing it in isolation as a problem, I’d argue the problem lies more with you, your virtue signaling and your desire to make everything about a validation of your self-flattering ideologies that pad your ego…

I guess it's kind of an aside, but the term "virtue signaling" just seems entirely meaningless. But maybe I just don't understand it well. Can you elaborate on what you mean by it?

To me, any argument that speaks to morality fits the term - and moralizing is 90% of argument. I mean, your own 4th point is about what our "moral default" should be - is that not "signaling" something you see as a "virtue"?

I would respectfully disagree with your moral claim. I think it's quite possible (and morally defensible) to give TSJ the presumption of innocence while also abstaining from assumptions about what actually happened and/or cavalier statements about the merits of the case.

I mean, I think I understand what you're communicating. It sounds like your personal standard for proving guilt is high, similar to the legal standard. It also sounds like you think we should treat people as entirely innocent until that standard is met - in this case, implying that TSJ shouldn't be suspended as a U of I athlete. I don't have much of an issue with those views on the surface.

But even taking that as a given, what's the benefit to saying "this case seems like a joke"? It gets your point across, I suppose, but can you really not see how someone might infer from the phrase that you don't particularly care about this victim, other victims, or the broader problem of sexual violence? That may not be true, and I'm sure it's not your intent. You may be totally open to changing your mind about this case, too. If so, all of that is great. But you're still calling it "a joke" now - and more than that, trying to persuade others to see it the same way as a moral default. Why choose that term, instead of something more respectful of the gravity of the situation?

 

[jumpingjack]

I believe the reason Tech is allowing him to play is they looked to the Title lX commission which continues to hold him in good standing. I assume Tech does not have similar procedures and standards in place as we do.

Sure doesn't sound like it - which is disturbing.

 

[nicksmith4three]

Not sure if it's incorrect but it's likely incomplete. If TSJ's legal team just requested all the investigative materials from the KBI, there's no way the can definitively day that his DNA isn't present. At least not yet, anyway.

Now, based on the activity the accuser claims went on, the odds are slim it's present, but not impossible. We won't know until/if the defense releases that information

I don't know about this. I don't think we can know for sure one way or another. The defense may already have the DNA report but they have requested discovery on the rest of the casefile. I testify plenty of times where the defense has not requested discovery on the case because they already have my DNA report and don't really care or cant make sense of all my data anyway. Just my 2 cents. I have no idea what they have or don't have nor do I know what Ked knows. His statement on the podcast wasn't clear.

 

[MustangWally]

Terrence Shannon Jr. alleged rape case occurred at Jayhawk Café in Lawrence

LAWRENCE (KSNT) – Court documents are shedding new light on the arrest and subsequent suspension of a University of Illinois basketball player for an alleged rape that occurred in Lawrence. C…

www.ksnt.com

"Court documents state law enforcement corroborated the victim’s story with other witnesses, cell phone records and a surveillance video from inside the café."

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

Terrence Shannon Jr. alleged rape case occurred at Jayhawk Café in Lawrence

LAWRENCE (KSNT) – Court documents are shedding new light on the arrest and subsequent suspension of a University of Illinois basketball player for an alleged rape that occurred in Lawrence. C…

www.ksnt.com

"Court documents state law enforcement corroborated the victim’s story with other witnesses, cell phone records and a surveillance video from inside the café."

VERY curious what is meant by "corroborated the victim's 'story'" in this case. If we take her "story" to mean that TSJ committed the alleged sexual assault act, then I am kind of confused what type of cell phone record could corroborate that other than him saying he did it. I also assume surveillance video that "corroborates" the allegation would have to show him literally doing this, no? I mean, video of them together doesn't "corroborate" the allegation at all.

 

[727ill]

VERY curious what is meant by "corroborated the victim's 'story'" in this case. If we take her "story" to mean that TSJ committed the alleged sexual assault act, then I am kind of confused what type of cell phone record could corroborate that other than him saying he did it. I also assume surveillance video that "corroborates" the allegation would have to show him literally doing this, no? I mean, video of them together doesn't "corroborate" the allegation at all.

The cell phone records probably place him in the bar and the video records show he was indeed there at the time of the alleged incident. That's probably it.

 

[Frank]

VERY curious what is meant by "corroborated the victim's 'story'" in this case. If we take her "story" to mean that TSJ committed the alleged sexual assault act, then I am kind of confused what type of cell phone record could corroborate that other than him saying he did it. I also assume surveillance video that "corroborates" the allegation would have to show him literally doing this, no? I mean, video of them together doesn't "corroborate" the allegation at all.

'Corroborated' is used more loosely than you're thinking and just refers to the video/cell phone evidence stated in the affidavit (search history, victim location in bar, victim's movements). The same terminology is used throughout the affidavit. Corroborate doesn't mean "proof," just that there is added evidence behind the victim's claims.

The article also states the victim left the bar and went to the hospital, which is not accurate according to the affidavit (victim went to the hospital after reporting the crime the following afternoon). In short, wouldn't read too much into this bit of local reporting -- we already know everything it's summarizing.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

Terrence Shannon Jr. alleged rape case occurred at Jayhawk Café in Lawrence

LAWRENCE (KSNT) – Court documents are shedding new light on the arrest and subsequent suspension of a University of Illinois basketball player for an alleged rape that occurred in Lawrence. C…

www.ksnt.com

"Court documents state law enforcement corroborated the victim’s story with other witnesses, cell phone records and a surveillance video from inside the café."

that is all old news

 

[NarrowJ]

VERY curious what is meant by "corroborated the victim's 'story'" in this case. If we take her "story" to mean that TSJ committed the alleged sexual assault act, then I am kind of confused what type of cell phone record could corroborate that other than him saying he did it. I also assume surveillance video that "corroborates" the allegation would have to show him literally doing this, no? I mean, video of them together doesn't "corroborate" the allegation at all.

I think they're saying it corroborates the victim's story, not the actual allegation. So video of them together corroborates her story in that she said they were in a room together, not that it corroborates that he raped her.

 

[KC_Illini]

Terrence Shannon Jr. alleged rape case occurred at Jayhawk Café in Lawrence

LAWRENCE (KSNT) – Court documents are shedding new light on the arrest and subsequent suspension of a University of Illinois basketball player for an alleged rape that occurred in Lawrence. C…

www.ksnt.com

"Court documents state law enforcement corroborated the victim’s story with other witnesses, cell phone records and a surveillance video from inside the café."

Very poorly worded way to say her friend told police the story the victim told her in the bar and cell phone records/video footage only show they were in the same area of each other.