Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
the most famous use of that word in a movieTook me a minute. Nice!
TSJ Thread
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I wouldn't imagine so. It's not a matter of public record unless and until entered into evidence in open court (i.e. at a trial), and it's almost certainly not in TSJ's interest for it to be released on his end.
I too would love to know what if any DNA results there are from the rape kit, but I wouldn't anticipate any visibility into the details beyond the police report unless and until we reach trial, which is never happening before TSJ's done with college basketball.
It is the delicious irony that in fact Andy is the one being obtuse here. The warden is not interested in justice and has no intention of ever letting his pet launderer get out.
Why would you say it's not in his best interest?
It seems like evidence which points to his innocence he'd want out in the public.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Beyond any privacy issues with information involved in the case, this just isn't the kind of thing one litigates in the press.
Securing a favorable outcome in the case is the only thing that matters to TSJ and his team.
Where you get details on this kind of case is where you have a press corps sufficiently resourced and capable of finding them out on their own, which won't be the case here in all likelihood.
Hoping someone can shed some more light on this. Is this the DA or the defense subpoenaing this information? If the DA, does this mean they have an uncooperative witness? Or if the defense, they're likely trying to uncover communication between the accuser and the witness (said to be 'involved' with the accuser) that may be damaging to the DA's case?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The subsequent tweet suggests that it's the defense's subpoena though I have no idea how this guy would know and would take all of this with a grain of salt.
If you've read the police report, the search history on the victim's phone was part of the police investigation, and I'm sure the defense has already been provided access to that information, though it's easy to imagine texts or other communications where the defense may feel it indicates some value in seeing the phone records of someone besides the victim. Nothing unusual at all. Subpoenas are how you get additional information.
Thankfully for Illinois Basketball this prosecution is almost certainly no longer of on-court relevance to us. But I get it, the facts as described in the police report are salacious and unusual and seem to ask more questions than they answer. I'm intrigued where this goes too. And we'd all obviously be happier to have TSJ's innocence proven as a resolution to the case.
I would just caution against an expectation of dramatic twists and turns before we get to a final adjudication.
I really disagree with this. Obviously, securing a "favorable outcome" is most important. But quickly bringing public perception to his side is critical. So if Shannon has exculpatory evidence that would sway public opinion I believe it's in his best interest to release it.
As to the press, they really only put out what is fed to them these days. But if Shannon's attorneys release a report that his DNA wasn't found that would very possibly get some press. A lot of other examples that would weigh favorably for him.
With the NBA Draft happening far before this case is likely resolved, I'd have to agree with this.
Have to disagree here. There's one thing for certain in this country and that's that the public has a very short memory. We're a society that quickly moves on to the next news story. Right now, TJ is no longer a headline. He might be the object of idiotic comments from the opposing team's student sections and/or fans, but he's probably already learned to tune it out.
The University is obviously trying hard to keep him out of any sort of spotlight. He's not doing post game pressers and he's not being portrayed as the face of the program.
The fact that his court case got moved to May gives him plenty of time to finish the season without issue and start the draft process without issue.
Leave the headlines to basketball and let the rest play itself out in the background. He and most importantly the team are in a good spot right now. Leave it that way.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Yep, agree 100%. It's easy to forget, but while Deron might have always been an NBA All Star, I would argue he became the #3 pick during the NCAA Tournament that year. While I am sure visiting student sections will still mindlessly chant "No Means No!" at TSJ for the rest of the year regardless, it might be extremely beneficial for the narrative among national pundits to shift toward a more pro-innocence perspective as March Madness rolls around. I think the shift would be super subtle (like from them awkwardly downplaying it right now to them awkwardly downplaying it but also having no problem interviewing TSJ after a game or something), but it might be a huge weight of TSJ's shoulders and make him feel a bit more at ease.
NEIlliniFan
- No longer in New England
If you Google Mitch Gilfillan, his X account previews 2 posts re TSJ. The 1st post is post #130. The continued post says TSJ's lawyers initiated the subpoena.
Maybe someone more tech savvy can post it here.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I promise you, relative to the active felony rape prosecution he is facing, it is not.
Nor is that even possible under these circumstances.
There is naturally a wishful thinking campaign and sense of aggrievement among Illinois Basketball fans about all this, but those sentiments are not shared by TSJ's very competent legal team.
He and we are very fortunate he gets to contribute on the court in the meantime, but TSJ is nobody's meal ticket if the outcome of this case is a bad one.
I'm less convinced his PR is ever going to be good. I doubt there is a smoking gun that completely exonerates him and proves there is no way he did this or something similar. Just as there seems to be very little proof he did this, there is also likely to be very little proof he didn't.
Even if casual fans of the sport don't know the outcome and the specifics, you can bet NBA teams will do more than their due diligence on the subject before they call his name.
The kid is staring down the barrel of doing time in prison. (however unlikely we may want to believe that is) PR is an afterthought. A distant second to avoiding prison is going to the NBA. Waaaaaay down the list is public perception.
Obviously they're not going to release information that hurts their case. No one is suggesting that they would. The legal team has already publicly released information, I believe.
But you're giving generalities about release. But let's take one obvious one. DNA was taken from the victim and from her garments. None of it shows the DNA of the accused who voluntarily submitted a sample.
How do you foresee that hurting his case (if it ever goes to trial)?
well public perception is part of going to the NBA. So when I talk about PR I'm principally looking at the draft.
Actually, the May date suggests that it won't be finished by the draft. Certainly it won't be if a trial is in the offing.
IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
I may be misremembering, but I think this was at the request of his legal team. You don't want a journalist asking him about the case (and they will because their job is to ask about any and everything surrounding the team) and it being broadcast. A single misstep or botched answer may taint the jury pool or give the DA more ammunition. Better to keep laying low.
Edit: editing to add that I don't think any of the Illini beat reporters would try to set him up. I don't even think opposing media would try to set him up, it's just that I'm sure his attorneys don't want him freestyling answers to questions that may come up in trial. They're going to want to control everything and coach him up on how to respond to those kinds of questions.
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The information in the FOIA releases obtained by Champaign Showers show that TSJ's DNA sample was obtained per a warrant from LPD (working with UIPD).
Do you have a source that says otherwise? Or perhaps it was a carefully worded statement by his legal team saying he did so willingly (even though he didn't have a choice).
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
So I'll start here. There is no public perception that does an end run around "actively charged with felony rape". I don't want to be too glib about it, but I would think it's fairly obvious that "his defense lawyers and the fans of his college team say the case is weak" will not carry a lot of weight in an NBA team's analysis.
The first thing I thought when I saw these charges and the length of time from the incident was that they had been waiting on DNA testing to come back (not uncommon for overburdened state crime labs to take awhile), then the police report confirmed that a rape kit was taken, and that ESPN report confirmed that was indeed what the Kansas prosecutors were waiting on.
I don't want to speculate too much, but it seems unlikely that the waited-upon DNA results came back negative and the highest possible charge was immediately filed. Nor do I want to hold myself out as some criminal law expert, but I do have some experience in that field, and a DNA match from the rape kit definitely patches many (though imho not all, especially as it pertains to the top charge) of the holes in the case presented by the police report.
The whole thing makes an intriguing legal hypothetical. But it's not a hypothetical to TSJ, it's his life.
And it's also not a hypothetical to the Douglas County, KS prosecutors office, who are not in the business of losing highly publicized trials, especially where they will expose sympathetic female college students to negative public scrutiny.
The stakes of the college and pro basketball discourse are irrelevant compared to those stakes, and will eventually bow to the case's outcome regardless.
I don't. I had heard differently and hadn't heard about the FOIA.
I may be misreading you here. Do you think TSJ's DNA was likely found in the samples taken from his accuser?
The closest thing to that I can find is this:
On Oct. 24, Briggs emailed Leitner asking for an update in Shannon's case. Leitner responded the same day, saying,"Unfortunately I don't have any update for you. I anticipate he either was charged or will be soon." Leitner added that he had submitted DNA for analysis "but it could be some time before we have results."
ChiefGritty:
"I don't want to speculate too much, but it seems unlikely that the waited-upon DNA results came back negative and the highest possible charge was immediately filed. Nor do I want to hold myself out as some criminal law expert, but I do have some experience in that field, and a DNA match from the rape kit definitely patches many (though imho not all, especially as it pertains to the top charge) of the holes in the case presented by the police report."
I thought that through. It makes sense they were waiting on test results. However, if they have conclusive DNA; then why the lesser alternative charge?- Status