TSJ Thread
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lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
I don’t think anyone is arguing that he’s more likely to get off through good publicity, just that good publicity could help with the NBA draft.
Read her words. "Charging survivors and victims with a crime of false reporting " False reporting is knowingly and intentionally reporting a crime knowing it is false inducing law enforcement to act on it....or something close to that. By definition they are not survivors or victims they are liars using our criminal justice system to try and ruin someone's life. Make no mistake about what you are dealing with here
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I don't want to overstate a level of confidence I don't have because unless someone can think up an example, I don't think there's really precedent for this particular question.
But I don't think he's draftable with a felony rape charge over his head. And I find the idea that a perception among the basketball community that the prosecution is weak, biased, or unlikely to succeed changes that calculus to be wishful thinking.
I hope we don't have to test that hypothesis. But that's where my expectation is.
The knife thing or the hotel room shake down?
Really? There's no precedent?
I thought X was true. But then I was presented with evidence that proves X was false. And at that point you don't know what to think?
The question was simple. You have speculated that the DNA test was positive. If you were shown a document from the lab that said it was negative, would you change your position?
I'm flummoxed.
You have the best take on why a lot may not come out. Right now, Shannon can survive the status quo. Thrive, not so much. he's missing valuable opportunities to get on lists, such as the Wooden award. But if the evidence is weak and he has the proof, his legal staff may hold it to try to get a nondisclosable agreement with the "victim". If they put it out there, she has less to lose by moving forward.
He's got to decide what sort of long term damage he's willing to take on his reputation.
At least one of those cases was really mishandled by the police and previous DA. They admitted to making up their mind against the woman right off the bat for poor reasons and maintained that bias throughout. There may have been enough conflicting evidence to complicate a sexual assault charge, but their case for a false report looked ridiculous.
In other words, I think the current DA's statement might be reasonable in the context of what the previous DA actually did (where the accuser probably - although not definitely - was a victim), not in the hypothetical context of some obviously false report.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Of a first round caliber player with an active charge for a major felony at the time of the draft? I'm unaware of other examples. Wasn't Pierre Pierce already in jail?
(Btw, because TSJ's NCAA eligibility expires at the end of this season, he is automatically registered for the 2024 Draft, and would be a free agent if undrafted. He can't wait for 2025.)
Was I not clear enough when I said "take this speculation with a boulder of salt"?
I agree he probably won’t get drafted if this isn’t resolved before draft day. The talent level in the NBA is so ridiculously good right now, there are more players qualified to play in the NBA than there are roster spots (see Hill, Malcolm).
If a guy has the potential to be an all star or a franchise type player like Brandon Miller, I think the NBA is willing to look past some conduct issues. But I’m sure Charlotte did their due diligence and were comfortable with his character before drafting him. But for a guy who is likely to be a role player, the juice probably isn’t worth the squeeze. As an NBA GM, you can find a guy to fill a 3 and D spot, either FA, draft, G League etc that doesn’t have a felony rape charge.
And I don’t mean to poopoo TJ’s ability. I actually think he will thrive in the pace and space NBA if he can get there. Just that there are a lot of 6’6 wings who can shoot 35%+ from 3, more than there are roster spots for same.
Maybe I don’t understand the line of reasoning being expressed here, but a criminal defense attorney is not going to negotiate with an accuser to reach a deal to drop charges in exchange for compensation. That’s called witness tampering. It’s very illegal.
There’s a world of difference between civil law and criminal law. Short of a rare dismissal based on some kind of prima facie legal insufficiency, the district attorney will decide whether the case ever goes to trial or not.
This makes me sad to read, but it's probably more right than wrong.
This actually happens a lot. We would be very naive to think attorneys don't do things because they are illegal.
Agreed. There are many such cases where third party mediators are involved behind the scenes, bag men, etc.
Possibly so, but doing things which will inevitably get them caught happens quite a bit less often.
That's why you don't get caught. Attorneys know the law and how to skirt it in many, many cases. Divorce attorneys are not to use criminal cases as leverage in the proceedings of their cases, but they constantly do it anyway. Never seen one get 'caught', although many threats of ethics violations blah blah blah, but that's as far as anything ever goes.
Divorce cases exist in their own tiny little world. A criminal defense attorney who seeks to buy the silence of complaining witnesses won't keep his license for long.
Yes, I’m sure Rob Lang, Steve Beckett, Mark Goldenberg, Zoe Spector, Tom Horscroft, and Mark Sutter, all reputable attorneys at the top of their profession, with very lucrative practices where they represent thousands of clients, are going to risk all that, risk destroying the reputation they spent years building, risk disbarment, risk serious criminal charges, so they can act as facilitators of “bagmen” to sneak under the table payoffs to the central witness in a high profile case that’s getting national media scrutiny.
Don’t confuse the illegal antics of some Lionel Hutz ambulance chasing personal injury huckster, or some mobbed-up consigliere Saul Goodman type, that you might encounter on the bottom fringes of the legal business, with competent high-level criminal defense practice. Nobody is approaching the complainant with a financial settlement. That’s not how cases like this proceed, at all. Not even in central Kansas, which, from everything else we’ve seen so far, is clearly it’s own legal bizzaro-land.
Sure, criminal defendants try to bribe witnesses. They also send them death threats. Or worse. And it’s very illegal and prosecuted extremely aggressively. That’s not this case. You’re thinking civil law, where the defense can just throw money at the problem. There are no “mediators” here. The DA will decide to go forward or won’t. That’s how it ends.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Yes.
Also just to note, victims refusing to go forward with sexual assault cases happens all the time, but the most common reason is that they are the ongoing romantic partner of the defendant. Don't want their kids dad to go to jail, lose the family breadwinner, suffer continued domestic abuse to stop them from testifying, threats, often very sad situations.
This alleged incident occurred in a crowded public place in the span of apparently a couple of minutes, if that, between two people that had no connection to each other before or since. It's an extremely unusual sexual violence case in those respects.
I don't think he was a lottery pick to begin with because of his age. I think he can be a quality NBA player, but I don't think he was ever a lottery pick based on history. He was already considered "old," last year. He'll turn 24 right after the draft. Sadly, he may have played his way into the first round this year, and this whole thing has knocked him down a round.
Speaking generally here... The wording of that DA statement bears a stench of Agenda.
A properly-worded DA statement would read... 'As your District Attorney, I am proud of our work to create an 'ALLEGED VICTIM'-focused approach."
Because there ain't NO 'victim' until and unless ruled by a Court. LATER ON in the process. No Victim without a legally-established Crime.
Agenda much? Perhaps, AgenDA (maybe).
And as an Agent of the Court... fairness under Law should be the aim of ALL participants. When this is all over, we'll see how well that standard held up here.
I never used the word 'bagmen', it doesn't happen like that.
We can agree to disagree, but I think you're being naive if you choose to lead with the bold, absolute statement of "there's no way this ever happens".
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