Will be back in the news when we make the Championship game. Guess we can all handle it then!
TSJ Thread
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Exactly. And for what incentive? (S)he works for the government, not looking for more sketchy clients to pay his or her income. This is the stuff of Q.
Nobody is trying to resolve this case by offering the accuser compensation while the criminal case is ongoing. That’s wrong and I can explain why it’s wrong.
In civil litigation, there is a rule of evidence that says a party cannot introduce evidence at trial concerning the other party’s efforts to negotiate a settlement. There is a public policy rationale for this. It’s better for society and the courts if litigants in civil cases work out their disputes on their own without having to use up governmental resources. We want them to do that. So its bad if litigants resist negotiating in earnest because they’re afraid something they say or acknowledge, or just the mere fact they even discussed a possible settlement, will be used against them later. A lawyer can’t argue “the defendant knew he was negligent, that’s why he offered to pay my client’s medical bills before this trial.” That’s not allowed—in civil law.
It doesn’t work the same in criminal law. It’s not a plaintiff suing a defendant. The parties are (1) the state, represented by the prosecutor, against (2) the defendant. The “victim” is not a party to the criminal litigation. The “victim” is a witness for the prosecution. There’s no public policy interest in people accused of crimes to offer payments to witnesses to recant or stop cooperating with the prosecution. Quite the opposite, in fact. We make it a very serious crime to do that. So the key point here is that if a defendant, through his attorneys, or a third-party mediator, or a mutual connection, or whoever, approaches a victim to negotiate a financial settlement while the criminal case is pending, you can guarantee that if the prosecution finds out they will absolutely introduce that at the criminal trial as evidence of consciousness of guilt. And they will be 100% allowed to make that argument, “You know the defendant is guilty because he offered to pay the victim recant her allegations.” That’s very damning evidence for the jurors to hear.
This is one reason that, when an alleged victim files a civil suit while the criminal case is still ongoing, the civil case is stayed until the criminal case is resolved. And this is not to say that no witness or victim is ever bribed or intimidated or killed. Gangland cases, domestic violence cases, etc., bad stuff happens. But that is not this case at all.
That's a long diatribe complete with made up scenarios, after I already said we could agree to disagree. You won't change my mind on this. It happens, because I know it does. To say 'this thing NEVER happens' as an absolute is just incorrect. Just because there are laws against things (murder, speeding, etc) doesn't mean those things do not happen or that people do not do those things.
I'd imagine if you Googled "witness tampering in criminal case" you'd find many instances of this occurring. I'd start there, I guess?
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@AutoPoster 3000 Also just to add- I absolutely 100% agree this isn't happening in TJ's case. I may have gotten way off track with my responses. I thought you were blanket-statement saying this sort of thing just never happens, ever. But reading your post again, I can see you're applying your thoughts on this to TJ's case alone and not as a whole.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I won't lie, every time TJ makes a mistake or something I feel like my heart just aches a LOT more than before. I know he's a stud athlete and he'd much rather being playing than sitting at home worrying about the case, but man ... I cannot imagine the stress.
Imagining for a second that he is indeed innocent, I hope he does what is best for him in May. People get convicted of crimes they didn't do an alarming number of times (haven't 12% of people put to death later been exonerated or something?), and while I sincerely hope this never happens ... if it's not looking good, I hope his team considers a lower offense where he can still have a relatively great life. WHATEVER happened that night, based on the information available - both speculative and alleged - I am quite confident in saying that Shannon does not in any way, shape or form deserve to spend decades in prison even if the alleged victim's story were 100% true.
Imagining for a second that he is indeed innocent, I hope he does what is best for him in May. People get convicted of crimes they didn't do an alarming number of times (haven't 12% of people put to death later been exonerated or something?), and while I sincerely hope this never happens ... if it's not looking good, I hope his team considers a lower offense where he can still have a relatively great life. WHATEVER happened that night, based on the information available - both speculative and alleged - I am quite confident in saying that Shannon does not in any way, shape or form deserve to spend decades in prison even if the alleged victim's story were 100% true.
UIPD Sergent Grant Briggs possessed a search warrant to obtain Shannon's DNA when he got the samples (which were mouth swabs) in Underwood's office in Ubben on Friday, 9/29/2023. DIA employee Ryan Squire was present and helped arrange that meeting between Shannon and the police. This is all detailed on the Champaign Showers website.
Why would anyone say it is not happening here. It happens all the time in domestic cases and in cases of this type. I cannot count the number of cases I have seen where the accuser changes their mind and charges are dropped. It is being looked at from the wrong side. All fair comments on if initiated by Shannon but that is not the way it works. I would be totally surprised if the accuser does not have a civil lawyer and they initiated contact with the Shannon camp. When this started the DA had a talk with the accuser saying if this is about money--a civil claim your prosecution is going to end in a New York minute. You have that talk because this scenario is so common. If that is the way it goes the accuser does not even have to talk to the DA. That is why you have an attorney. She has changed her mind, she does not want to ruin the defendant's life. Anything will do. The DA will stomp and yell but she is powerless. You cannot prosecute a case without the cooperation of the complaining witness. She could really get pissed and say the state of Kansas brought these charges and we will subpoena you into court, seen that done a few times but it is a hollow threat. Not saying for sure that is what is happening here but that is certainly a reasonable possibility
bdutts
- Houston, Texas
ok, so nearly three weeks. Gotcha, thanks.
This case is also complicated by the presence of a bunch of very rich people who *might* have a vested interest in "helping out" for one reason or another in one way or another with all kinds of connections we ordinary people don't have.
just speculating no inside knowledge, probably over-stimulated by the "Better Call Saul" gif LOL
I'm really down on Gary Parrish, too. He's such a judgmental know-it-all know or should I say know-nothing who loves the sound of his own voice. I won't even listen to his podcast any more, his voice is "nails on a chalkboard" to me now. And day after day, he ranks us so much lower than anybody else. AP ranks us #10, Coaches Poll ranks us #12 but Gary Freakin' Parrish has at #18.
The way the media works today, it's often the person that yells the loudest or can capture listener's anger that gets the most clicks. And the business end of reporting is what drives the bus. Look at ESPN. They're not a sports-reporting site, they're an event-promoting site that also covers sports. They have conflicts all over the place with money invested in specific teams/conferences/games and media partners. It's true of broadcasting in general, and most people will gravitate towards what they like whether it's a good source of truth. "Truth" is increasingly democracized, driven by capitalism, thriving with a lack of transparency. And the people behind the curtain really love their curtains. If your source doesn't have a good mechanism for preventing or at least reporting conflicts of interest, then expecting something approaching the truth might be asking for too much. [gets off soap box].
Just going to address the last sentence because, at this point, the TSJ issue is all just noise with anything regarding basketball. If he wants to play it out for viewership....ignore it.
Now, his comment about where we're ranked is hoops related and is up for debate. That should be on a different thread, but we can attack it anyway.
The difference between 10/12 and #18 is really nothing. It's a very marginal difference in opinion. To illustrate that, we didn't look very good vs Nebraska. We almost threw it away in devastating fashion. Did that look like the 10th ranked team in the country? Realistically, who have we beaten in the last 5 weeks that would make oneh think....wow, they're Final Four good?
We're being ranked in two things. 1) The was we were playing pre suspension and 2)talent and ceiling. RIGHT NOW, we are not the same team we were in December. Will that change? We all sure hope so! Hope isn't always reality.
That was long winded, but the takeaway is that his 18 vs 10/12 isn't necessarily wrong and it isn't necessarily right, BUT the evidence is there to say he's right.
Just one of the things I find annoying about ESPN is that their game summary MUST include a paragraph about how many games TSJ since UI was forced to reinstate him. If he was only a Sophomore I could see them including it for the next 2 years.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Eh, regarding the last sentence of yours I do think even that is really up for debate. There just are not that many "top 15" resumes as we would usually understand it this year, IMO, so pollsters are left in a weird situation where teams are winding up where they are almost by chance (e.g., we were #14 in a week where #11, #12 and #13 lost or something). I totally agree that we perhaps have not intrinsically earned a #10 ranking, but I think other teams' arguments are weak, as well.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
In a nutshell, all the teams that seem better than us keep losing.
Eh I think some people don't realize that every good team besides the top three teams this season have struggled against teams we would consider mediocre. We have still been a top team since the Shannon suspension. I will admit that the team since Shannon has come back is more top 25 than top 15 (which it was without Shannon), but I don't think we are overrated or anything. I think it's obvious this team has room to grow with fitting Shannon in with the more Domask-centric style while also improving on the defensive end. But it's not like there are a lot of better teams still.
Absolutely. UConn lost to Seton Hall by 15. Purdue has lost to Northwestern and also lost to Nebraska by 16 points (neither of which own a single AP Top 25 vote this week). UNC just lost at home to Clemson, who is a decent ball club but nothing to write home about, and also lost to Ga Tech last week (#137 Kenpom). Kansas has lost games to UCF and, more recently, K-State. Houston is really the only top 5 team that hasn't dropped one that's really questionable, but they've also played the worst schedule by far out of the teams in the top 5. Marquette is somehow ranked #7 with losses to Providence, Seton Hall and Butler. Arizona lost to Washington State and then have an absolutely inexplicable loss to Oregon State. Duke has lost to a disappointing Arkansas team and then dropped the very next game against woeful Ga Tech, then also lost a home game to Pittsburgh.
There's not a team in the entire country that doesn't have major question marks, imho.
sacraig
- The desert
In an even smaller nutshell, this season, teams are a lot more evenly matched than usual.
More parity, less chemistry, but tons of talent across the board that makes upsets possible against any team. Nobody is safe. Should be a fun March Madness.
This has already been reported and has been public knowledge for awhile.
The 3 point shot and the transfer portal have become the great equalizers. A hot shooting 3 night against a ranked team that gets a bit tight on their 3's and you have the chance for an upset. The pressure is on the ranked team and once the unranked team gets it going watch out.
Goode was 0-6 on 3 pointers against Nebraska. He hits 2 or 3 and it is a different game. Tominaga was 5-7 with Shannon hanging on him. If he has a cold game like his previous 2 or 3, Nebraska doesn't come within 20.
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