Week of 3/3 Bracketology

Status
Not open for further replies.
#326      
Our issues aren't the losses, it's who we lost to. It's hard to rationalize losing to USC(at home), Northwestern and Rutgers, then get curb stomped by double digits to Duke, Maryland (home), MSU(home) and Wisconsin.

While our overall profile is good because Brad and Co know how to work the system, but if other teams, competing with us, do a deep dive just like we do here....there's a lot to pick at.

Ultimately, we'll have to see if the illness/injuries are taken into consideration. If not, we'll be fighting between a 7 and a 8 and if so, it'll be between a 6 and a 7. I mean, we finished 7th in the Big Ten and we're making a hard push for a 6 seed in a national tournament?

There's a lot to look at. If we want off that 8 line, two wins(MAYBE one) needs to come from the BTT.

JMO
We are off the 8 line - it really is that simple. Our metrics are closer to a 5 seed. The Q1A and Q1 wins are top 10 in the country. Nearly every metric has this team in the top 20 (which take into account blow outs, losses, etc) almost none at 28-32. Win a game in the BTT should be close to a 5.

Now if injuries are taken into account, then the metrics are even better then they are showing. To be honest, this team is very close to Purdues metrics.
 
#327      
I’m about to make your day, both of your statements are false. We have 5 Q1A wins (hint: they’re the best type of win available. Purdue, for example, has just 3 of them). And we don’t have a single “bad” loss, which would be a Q3 or Q4 loss, on our resume.

View attachment 40340
I really am struggling to understand this whole marquee win. The resume metrics speak for themselves. Not here to debate it - remarkable resume.
 
#328      
Here in lies the issue. We don't really have a marquee win, while at the same time, we do have a couple of filthy losses. It'll be interesting.
Now if you want to see actual filthy losses take a look at some other teams. All but 2 losses were Q1, and the other 2 were Q2. There’s teams with Q3 losses.
 
Last edited:
#329      
Not trying to be a debbie downer but there is a extremely low chance we rise above the 5 line. Ill happily eat crow if it happens but 5 seems to be our ceiling.

We are still solidly on the 7 line with a chance to jump to the 6 maybe 5 if we make a run in the BTT.

Losses today by Marquette, Miss State, AZ would help out case to continue towards a 6
I'm being more of a Debbie downer than you. We had a TERRIBLE stretch in February. It can't be considered anything but bad and even that's being generous. The question is, how much weight, if any, will they put into that disastrous injury/illness stretch? There's no doubt whatsoever that it had a major effect on our season. Could the head of the committee stand up there(if were a 5) and give the rationale that it was driven by illness? How many other teams lost players? I don't think that they'll set that precedent.

I think that 6 is our ceiling, if we get to the finals if the BTT, 7 if we only win one game and 8 if we get bounced in round one.

Ultimately, how much damage did the end of January and February do? That was a pretty big sample size.
 
#330      
Our issues aren't the losses, it's who we lost to. It's hard to rationalize losing to USC(at home), Northwestern and Rutgers, then get curb stomped by double digits to Duke, Maryland (home), MSU(home) and Wisconsin.

While our overall profile is good because Brad and Co know how to work the system, but if other teams, competing with us, do a deep dive just like we do here....there's a lot to pick at.

Ultimately, we'll have to see if the illness/injuries are taken into consideration. If not, we'll be fighting between a 7 and a 8 and if so, it'll be between a 6 and a 7. I mean, we finished 7th in the Big Ten and we're making a hard push for a 6 seed in a national tournament?

There's a lot to look at. If we want off that 8 line, two wins(MAYBE one) needs to come from the BTT.

JMO
Northwestern is a Q1 loss.
Rutgers is a Q2A loss.
We have just one Q2B loss all season (USC) and 0 Q3 or Q4 losses.

You know who else has been curb stomped by double digits? Projected 4 seed Purdue. 18 point loss against Auburn. 10 point loss against Wisconsin. 18 point loss against Marquette. 11 point loss against Penn St. 15 point loss against Indiana.

Projected 3 seed Kentucky has a 16 point loss to Auburn, a 13 point loss to Alabama, a 14 point loss to Ole Miss, a 13 point loss to Georgia, a 20 point loss to Ohio St, and a 10 point Q2 loss to Arkansas.

Every team outside the top 1-2 seeds has double digit losses each season.
 
Last edited:
#331      
It's going to be really hard to get off of that 8/9 line.
1)Despite the schedule, we still have 11 losses. We'd have to beat Purdue, then win a couple of games in the BTT.

2)Some of our losses, for lack of a better term and only in basketball sense, are unforgivable. I mean, we have some nice wins, but losses to Northwestern, Rutgers and USC just can't be forgotten. Nebraska is a tough place to play, but that's a game we should have won comfortably. Michigan is probably our best win.

3)Losing to Maryland, MSU, Wisconsin and especially Duke.....no shame in losing those whatsoever. It's the way we lost. All double digits. Duke was on primetime, National TV and over a week later.... we're still hearing about it. Can't just go out and lose by 40 and not have it leave a mark.

4)All Q1 wins aren't the same, just as all Q2 losses aren't the same.

We have to beat Purdue, then win a game versus Indiana(or someone of the like), then beat MSU or Wisconsin or Purdue (again) to see some legit movement.

We painted ourselves into a corner a bit. Let's not forget, just a week ago our own fans were saying the team was lost, the locker room was a mess, everyone was transferring and Brad should be fired. That was just one week ago. Some of you know who you are. That doesn't change in a week. We have work to do to move the needle.

download (6).jpg
 
#332      
I'm being more of a Debbie downer than you. We had a TERRIBLE stretch in February. It can't be considered anything but bad and even that's being generous. The question is, how much weight, if any, will they put into that disastrous injury/illness stretch? There's no doubt whatsoever that it had a major effect on our season. Could the head of the committee stand up there(if were a 5) and give the rationale that it was driven by illness? How many other teams lost players? I don't think that they'll set that precedent.

I think that 6 is our ceiling, if we get to the finals if the BTT, 7 if we only win one game and 8 if we get bounced in round one.

Ultimately, how much damage did the end of January and February do? That was a pretty big sample size.
0 chance this team gets an 8 seed no matter what happens in the BTT. 7 is the floor, if they made Sunday of the BTT, they could get all the way up to a 4/5 seed. The losses don't look as bad as your making them out to be, and we are top 10 in the country in quad one wins, 6-2 in q2, and zero q3 or 4 losses.

They just ended the season beating two top 5 seeds, that raised our floor from a 9 to 7. Just two massive results.
 
#333      
I'm not trying to argue that I BELIEVE we had a great year. We had a very challenging non con schedule, but that said, we lost to Bama, we lost to TN, lost to Duke, BUT it turns out that Missouri was a really nice win and Arkansas is improving.

There were a couple of wins where we just exploded(MI, OR and IU). My only concern is that more of a few of our losses were brutal.

I think that we had a great year, but after digging in, when I think that we all agree that there's not much of a difference between seeds 4-8.....what's the differentiator? I have no clue.

What Brad did with this roster, given the youth, is off the charts. So proud of the guys. That said, it's not what we think. It's after digging in, when the drill down comparisons start.....what carries the weight? From a high level view, we're right up there with the best. When you open up the hood.....there a hurdles that we need then to write off due to illness.

JMO
 
#334      
I suppose I view 5 as realistic and 4 as our ceiling. But I'd happily win the BTT and get surprised with a 3. 🤷🏻‍♂️
I hear you but I do not (personally, obviously I am not a bracketologist) believe a 4 seed is even in play.

Strongly believe a 5 is our ceiling but want the boys to keep winning to continue the confidence into March. Also the more games we play in the BTT the more games Morez may have to get back into condition and the rotation.

Tre's re-emergence has been absolutely needed to raise this ceiling but Morez back in form helps us win the glass.

When they win the glass they tend to win. Only losses where they have won the rebounding margin and lost the game - Alabama, at Michigan State, at Nebraska, and at Rutgers.

Those other loses, MSU at home, Duke, at Wisco, USC at home, Tennessee at home, Maryland and at NW early in the season they have all either tied or lost the rebounding battle.

More games = more Mo. Regardless hope they continue winning.
 
#335      
0 chance this team gets an 8 seed no matter what happens in the BTT. 7 is the floor, if they made Sunday of the BTT, they could get all the way up to a 4/5 seed. The losses don't look as bad as your making them out to be, and we are top 10 in the country in quad one wins, 6-2 in q2, and zero q3 or 4 losses.
People really need to review the actual objective facts. There isn’t a world where almost any metric let alone the aggregated have them as a 28-32 and 8 seed. Lunardi actually is right - a 6 right now. Could argue a 5 if they take into account injuries. People are really out of touch with reality so I encourage them to review those teams that are on the actual 8 line as well as 5-6 line.
 
#337      
Our issues aren't the losses, it's who we lost to. It's hard to rationalize losing to USC(at home), Northwestern and Rutgers, then get curb stomped by double digits to Duke, Maryland (home), MSU(home) and Wisconsin.
The NW loss there was no excuse we let a big lead slip away

USC no KJ
MD no Tomi against a team who has size
Nebraska no Tomi game went to OT
RU White didn’t play not sure if he was sick
Wisky we beat earlier in the year and we didn’t shake hands because of the team being sick

If you are going to point out the bad games do we get credit for almost beating MSU and Tennessee (I know the answer is no). However combine those with all our quad 1 wins we have a very good resume.

It will depend how sickness and injuries are viewed because 5 of our losses were directly affected and I don’t think we were 100 percent against Duke
 
#338      
I'm being more of a Debbie downer than you. We had a TERRIBLE stretch in February. It can't be considered anything but bad and even that's being generous. The question is, how much weight, if any, will they put into that disastrous injury/illness stretch? There's no doubt whatsoever that it had a major effect on our season. Could the head of the committee stand up there(if were a 5) and give the rationale that it was driven by illness? How many other teams lost players? I don't think that they'll set that precedent.

I think that 6 is our ceiling, if we get to the finals if the BTT, 7 if we only win one game and 8 if we get bounced in round one.

Ultimately, how much damage did the end of January and February do? That was a pretty big sample size.
Have to agree with you regardless of the odd string of illnesses that hit Illinois during this season.

They still lost at home to USC, at Rutgers and at Nebraska. All three of those teams are not making the tournament field and that matters to the committee. The lack of marquee home wins will hurt them too.

Maryland always gives us fits and we did not have Tomi but still a home loss, missed opportunity vs Tennessee at home and the USC loss was just inexcusable. Those matter.

Where ever the fellas land theyll have to earn that second weekend but what gives me solace is we are seeing key glue guys emerge (Tre, Ben in his limited role) Kylan gettings his offensive confidence back, KJ being KJ when we need him to be KJ and Will has just been an absolute revelation since the OSU home win.

They are trending where they need to be. Go get a couple wins in the B1G Tourney and if they make the final, hell yea. They are where they want to be right now given the up and down season.
 
#339      
That's the takeaway. Maybe I am overating the losses? Three of those are to teams who were battling to even make the conference tournament(USC, NW and Rutgers). Did USC make it? I look at it as, there is no flipping way we should have lost any of them. You're looking at is they aren't that bad and you VERY well be right. I'll feel better if we win game 1 of the BTT.
 
#340      
I'm being more of a Debbie downer than you. We had a TERRIBLE stretch in February. It can't be considered anything but bad and even that's being generous. The question is, how much weight, if any, will they put into that disastrous injury/illness stretch? There's no doubt whatsoever that it had a major effect on our season. Could the head of the committee stand up there(if were a 5) and give the rationale that it was driven by illness? How many other teams lost players? I don't think that they'll set that precedent.

I think that 6 is our ceiling, if we get to the finals if the BTT, 7 if we only win one game and 8 if we get bounced in round one.

Ultimately, how much damage did the end of January and February do? That was a pretty big sample size.
This is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo far off.
 
#341      
The NW loss there was no excuse we let a big lead slip away

USC no KJ
MD no Tomi against a team who has size
Nebraska no Tomi game went to OT
RU White didn’t play not sure if he was sick
Wisky we beat earlier in the year and we didn’t shake hands because of the team being sick

If you are going to point out the bad games do we get credit for almost beating MSU and Tennessee (I know the answer is no). However combine those with all our quad 1 wins we have a very good resume.

It will depend how sickness and injuries are viewed because 5 of our losses were directly affected and I don’t think we were 100 percent against Duke
This was the preface of all of my posts. How is this viewed and none of us have any clue. All things being equal(and they don't take it isn't account).....things get a little dicey with regards to the floor/ceiling.
 
#342      
Could be 100% off. If I was on the committee, I'd have us as a 3. I'm not. Last year, the MWC got like...5 teams in and they all got rolled. I don't know what the criteria was. Do teams like New Mexico, Boise State, Utah State, San Diego State, etc get in and get higher seeds? We were all shocked last year. I look at our losses and I REALLY hope that the injuries don't haunt us. That would suck if it did.
 
#343      
I'm being more of a Debbie downer than you. We had a TERRIBLE stretch in February. It can't be considered anything but bad and even that's being generous. The question is, how much weight, if any, will they put into that disastrous injury/illness stretch? There's no doubt whatsoever that it had a major effect on our season. Could the head of the committee stand up there(if were a 5) and give the rationale that it was driven by illness? How many other teams lost players? I don't think that they'll set that precedent.

I think that 6 is our ceiling, if we get to the finals if the BTT, 7 if we only win one game and 8 if we get bounced in round one.

Ultimately, how much damage did the end of January and February do? That was a pretty big sample size.
All of this is already in the metrics. They are much closer to a 5 then an 8 - look at who’s around them. All the data is out there
 
#344      
I don't see much difference between the 3 and 4 seeds to be honest. They are all pretty similar, it's more a matter of who is playing hot. Purdue, Michigan, and A&M were all 3 seeds not that long ago. But they have picked up some losses. That could flip any day. So I guess the perfect situation is to get the 3 seed that isn't hot.
100% disagree with this. Sorry but no way is a 4 = 3? Playing the 1 after a 4/5 game. Not a chance 3, is way better
 
#345      
This was the preface of all of my posts. How is this viewed and none of us have any clue. All things being equal(and they don't take it isn't account).....things get a little dicey with regards to the floor/ceiling.
The numbers themselves disagree with you, and they aren't taking injuries into account. Every team gets some Q2 losses if you aren't Auburn. Illinois has two. Your mindset is so far off based on reality.
 
#346      
The NW loss there was no excuse we let a big lead slip away

USC no KJ
MD no Tomi against a team who has size
Nebraska no Tomi game went to OT
RU White didn’t play not sure if he was sick
Wisky we beat earlier in the year and we didn’t shake hands because of the team being sick


If you are going to point out the bad games do we get credit for almost beating MSU and Tennessee (I know the answer is no). However combine those with all our quad 1 wins we have a very good resume.

It will depend how sickness and injuries are viewed because 5 of our losses were directly affected and I don’t think we were 100 percent against Duke
There's no need to rationalize or justify Quad 1 losses. Those are tough games!

- AT NW
- AT NEB
- MARYLAND
- AT WISC

Not "bad losses" at all.
 
#347      
Our issues aren't the losses, it's who we lost to. It's hard to rationalize losing to USC(at home), Northwestern and Rutgers, then get curb stomped by double digits to Duke, Maryland (home), MSU(home) and Wisconsin.

While our overall profile is good because Brad and Co know how to work the system, but if other teams, competing with us, do a deep dive just like we do here....there's a lot to pick at.

Ultimately, we'll have to see if the illness/injuries are taken into consideration. If not, we'll be fighting between a 7 and a 8 and if so, it'll be between a 6 and a 7. I mean, we finished 7th in the Big Ten and we're making a hard push for a 6 seed in a national tournament?

There's a lot to look at. If we want off that 8 line, two wins(MAYBE one) needs to come from the BTT.

JMO
too pessimistic. I feel like we are a 6 seed. Even we lose the 1st game of BTT, we are a 7.

Honestly, I am more worried about getting an upgrade treatment...
 
#348      
I think bracket projections typically take into account projects W/L for remaining games. A few weeks ago we likely looked like a team to lose to UM and PU. Those wins are actually big for flipping the script. I think we look at the number of losses and think we won't he highly seeded. Reality is, we are 1 loss different than PU, and I could see a world where the committee boosts us and we are that team who is talked about. We were strongly considered a FF candidate until Feb. Those things will matter.
 
#349      
Have to agree with you regardless of the odd string of illnesses that hit Illinois during this season.

They still lost at home to USC, at Rutgers and at Nebraska. All three of those teams are not making the tournament field and that matters to the committee. The lack of marquee home wins will hurt them too.

Maryland always gives us fits and we did not have Tomi but still a home loss, missed opportunity vs Tennessee at home and the USC loss was just inexcusable. Those matter.

Where ever the fellas land theyll have to earn that second weekend but what gives me solace is we are seeing key glue guys emerge (Tre, Ben in his limited role) Kylan gettings his offensive confidence back, KJ being KJ when we need him to be KJ and Will has just been an absolute revelation since the OSU home win.

They are trending where they need to be. Go get a couple wins in the B1G Tourney and if they make the final, hell yea. They are where they want to be right now given the up and down season.
No, it doesn’t. The NCAA Tournament Selection Committee has a sorting mechanism for qualifying wins and losses called Quadrants, which are disconnected from who’s a tournament and who isn’t. There are four Quadrants, Quad1, Quad2, Quad3, Quad4.

The NCAA then decided that wins obtained in Quad1 and 2 are labeled “good wins” with Quad1 wins being better and upper half Quad1 wins called Quad1A being the best wins available.

Whereas, Quad3 and 4 losses are “bad” losses with Quad4 losses being the worst available.

We currently have 8 Quad1 wins (which is the 9th most in the nation), 5 of which are Quad1A wins (which is the 6th most in the nation) and another 6 Quad 2 wins, bringing our total “good wins” to 14.

Meanwhile, we have 0 losses to Quad3 and 4 teams, meaning we have 0 bad losses.
 
#350      
No, it doesn’t. The NCAA Tournament Selection Committee has a sorting mechanism for qualifying wins and losses called Quadrants, which are disconnected from who’s a tournament and who isn’t. There are four Quadrants, Quad1, Quad2, Quad3, Quad4.

The NCAA then decided that wins obtained in Quad1 and 2 are labeled “good wins” with Quad1 wins being better and upper half Quad1 wins called Quad1A being the best wins available.

Whereas, Quad3 and 4 losses are “bad” losses with Quad4 losses being the worst available.

We currently have 8 Quad1 wins (which is the 9th most in the nation), 5 of which are Quad1A wins (which is the 6th most in the nation) and another 6 Quad 2 wins, bringing our total “good wins” to 14.

Meanwhile, we have 0 losses to Quad3 and 4 teams, meaning we have 0 bad losses.
Let me ask you this because you're putting a ton of weight into the Q1 wins and really nothing into the losses...If we have the 9th most Q1 wins, why would a 7 seed be our floor? What's the metric driving that figure down?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back