Winthrop 84, Illinois 80 OT POSTGAME
We will never win with Tate playing 34 minutes. That should read 3 or 4 minutes.
Big difference when you win those games. When will the State Farm center be a home court advantage?
Illini_1979
- Oregon
+1My God, what a huge difference there is in University of Illinois fans vs. University of Illinois supporters.
I support this team, these kids, this coaching staff..unconditionally.. as long as they represent this University.
If this staff continues to run a program that holds young men accountable and continues to recruit without succumbing to the dirty BS we all know takes the 5 star recruits out of this state....the same kind many of you thought would take JT away from us last week...I will support them week in and week out. I will grumble at the losses, shake my head at the bad ones such as this, and clap, stomp and cheer at the wins.
The NCAA has created this atmosphere where winning at any cost, money, exposure, and irrational upheaval take precedent over education and morals.
We lost to Winthrop. Get over it. Victory comes in other forms. Winning a basketball game isn't necessarily the biggest victory.
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illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
Fun fact: we are 1-3 in games that Jaylon plays 34 minutes or more.
Not the kind of people you would want to be in a foxhole with, or on a basketball team with for that matter.
I know that b*tching makes them feel better, but I just don't understand the need to badmouth the team, coach and program on a site that our recruits may read (at least before we really do know how this year is going to play out). I am a fan of Illinois basketball and that includes the coach and all of the players. I trust the AD to make the right decisions on personnel issues without my input on IL.
Let's be clear here.
You aren't firing Groce as punishment because you're mad about losing. Losses are a sunk cost.
The question is solely and exclusively what is the expected value in future wins of signing Groce to a contract extension versus putting our best efforts into the coaching marketplace.
There are a lot of variables to weigh there, but the important one for these purposes is understanding that Groce's track record indicates to us that this "great class" (which is no better than 2010 and doesn't increase the talent level in the program more than marginally) is going to be wasted in service of the same mediocrity we've been experiencing.
Pollyanna optimism for new players must not blind us from the reality of our persistent failures with equally excellent recruits. Big time guys with potential coming into the program is not a new thing at Illinois. Those tales have been ending with disappointment and recriminations over and over and over and over again for a decade now.
I love this argument.
Let's stifle objectivity in order to present a sanitized, lobotomized smiling face for our pretend audience that doesn't actually read this board (nothing but love for AJ's dad, notwithstanding), but once I have decided "how the year is going to play out" we can really let 'em have it.
Tate is 17-15 in games he has started.
Get ready for a lot of Tate vs West Virginia
It will be a lot of Turkey and Taters on Thursday.
It makes sense to have Tracy play the wing because he's a threat to shoot the 3. Tate is not. I think Tracy's stroke is much improved. I hope he stays consistent throughout the season.
Johnson is a player, but I doubt he will consistently bank in 3 pointers all year.
With just a different bounce here or there, Illinois wins this game. I believe Groce's biggest challenge moving forward will be picking the right players to keep on the court. Black played well(I had to laugh at getting a moving screen call seconds into the game).DJ's minutes are bound to be affected by Black's return.
Completely Agree
Why is Tate in the game. Abrams at point with JCL off guard. Every capable coach would know this. I am tired of this he has to go if its not turned around. Period!!!
Why is Tate in the game. Abrams at point with JCL off guard. Every capable coach would know this. I am tired of this he has to go if its not turned around. Period!!!
They shouldnt be. A coach's job is to make sure that all talent is out on the floor at some point....especially with the depth we have we should be able to do waves and if Groce cannot capitalize on that...then as much as I love him... something needs to change.
Thank you for bringing this up SandC. We can't keep a coach just because he is bringing in a great recruiting class. If the coach has lost his mojo and just can't seem to win, he won't be able to win with these new recruits either.
Plus, let's say he IS retained, and uses his 5 star center to finally make it to the dance as a 7 seed (assuming he can't win with 4 star talent this year), then that means in order for Groce to win, he needs 5 star level talent EVERY year and that just isn't going to happen.
This is the perfect evaluation year for Groce. He has experience and an actual scoring PG. He has sophomores who are supposed to make the leap and a couple under the radar guys playing above their level. This is HIS team with all the right cogs for a successful machine. If he can't make it work, he SHOULD be gone.
Having said all that, we obviously have to see how the next 2 weeks plays out as well as the rest of the season.
I don't think we're as deep as some people think.
One big difference here...the B1G teams struggled but WON on their home courts. They overcame adversity and apparently some people stepped up when they needed to instead of curling up in a fetal position. Our end of game play has been poor for years win or lose. I can't think of the last time we ran away from somebody but I can think of plenty where we blew a lead and lost or barely squeaked out a win because the other team just ran out of clock as they narrowed the gap.
Where's the killer instinct? The ability to apply the Coup de Grace? I would love to see a win going away for a change instead of just maintaining a lead or clinging to a rapidly dwindling one.
We could, maybe, if it was Jahlil Okafor, Cliff Alexander, Tyler Ulis and Keita Bates-Diop. Or like John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins or something. If you looked at it rationally and said "what has come before does not present a reasonable comparison to what's coming".
You cannot look at the current situation rationally and say that. What we have now is actually better than what's coming, frankly, if we're talking about the next couple of years. Senior laden teams win.
Or as talented. We are pretty deep in the sense that we have 12 players who can start or have started in the past. But when we get in tough game situations, much depends on Hill, we are pretty predictable right now. When Hill is not having a good game, it is difficult to win against very good teams, and I do not mean Winthrop. We need some players to step way up beyond current level.
Put a little meat on that bone, let's just look at the RSCI ranking and class of our starting five this year and next, hypothetically.
2017:
PG: #69, RS Senior, 4th year starter
SG: #37, Sophomore, 2nd year starter
SF: #70, Senior, 4th year starter
PF: #46, RS Sophomore, 2nd year starter
C: #NR, Senior, 2nd year starter
2018:
PG: #NR, Sophomore, 1st year starter
SG: #37, Junior, 3rd year starter
SF: #78, Junior, 1st year starter
PF: #46, RS Junior, 3rd year starter
C: #25, Freshman, 1st year starter
Are JCL and Black going to blow up and carry us? Easy way to answer that question, let's see what they can do this year with significant experience already, the same coach and system, and a better cast around them. Both guys were invisible last night (Black less so, I guess).
(FWIW I think Frazier will start over Lucas from day 1, but for the sake of a fairer comparison I put Lucas in there)
2017:
PG: #69, RS Senior, 4th year starter
SG: #37, Sophomore, 2nd year starter
SF: #70, Senior, 4th year starter
PF: #46, RS Sophomore, 2nd year starter
C: #NR, Senior, 2nd year starter
2018:
PG: #NR, Sophomore, 1st year starter
SG: #37, Junior, 3rd year starter
SF: #78, Junior, 1st year starter
PF: #46, RS Junior, 3rd year starter
C: #25, Freshman, 1st year starter
Are JCL and Black going to blow up and carry us? Easy way to answer that question, let's see what they can do this year with significant experience already, the same coach and system, and a better cast around them. Both guys were invisible last night (Black less so, I guess).
(FWIW I think Frazier will start over Lucas from day 1, but for the sake of a fairer comparison I put Lucas in there)
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Good chances that Frazier starts next year.
Beat me to it
Regardless, that's an unranked true freshman at PG. We need to accept that that is not an upgrade to Tracy Abrams (who was nails yesterday, our best guy IMO).
He may not 'bank' them in all year, but he had 4, 30+ point games last year, so I think your statement could be in jeopardy...