That was a killer for sure and he needed some rest. He had to chases fast young man around for 34 minutes and sitting at home I was tired for him. I'm far from a big Tate fan but when it comes to blaming him in this one is where I drew the line. Groce, Bigs and Hill is the order of blame for me in this game
Winthrop 84, Illinois 80 OT POSTGAME
That was a killer for sure and he needed some rest. He had to chases fast young man around for 34 minutes and sitting at home I was tired for him. I'm far from a big Tate fan but when it comes to blaming him in this one is where I drew the line. Groce, Bigs and Hill is the order of blame for me in this game
FinalFour88
- Charlotte, NC
Unfortunately, he doesn't have the horses this year either. This team is long on experience, but pretty average talent wise by Big Ten standards. If you think Winthrop is a "tough" team, that just shows how far the program has fallen -- that we consider a home game against a potential 15-seed in the tournament a tough game.
If it's just like Wisconsin, who is the bench coach that will replace JG? No thanks. Ride this season out, see where it ends, and decide at that point in time.
Serious Late
- Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
We have yet to win a game this year we shouldn't. We have lost a game we shouldn't have. This season is off to an 0-1 start and the reason you see people reacting so strongly to the first meaningful result of the season.
Note, this result is ONLY meaningful because we lost, which is the exact reason you see so many posts.
FinalFour88
- Charlotte, NC
The bigger picture isn't about Tate in this game. Truth is, Tate is not very good. If he continues to play 30 minutes per game, we're not a tournament team. NIT tournament maybe.
Nov 13 vs. much weaker Northern Kentucky Team "Malcolm Hill is winning this game by himself. Love that man."
Nov 21 when Hill is an absolute no show during the last 25 min and decides to pick up his shoe instead of playing defense on OT-forcing fast break... "this is on Groce now."
I like Malcolm and hope he can be the leader you thought he was a few weeks ago, but I think this is exactly the point I was trying to make... you may be right and Groce may prove to the problem, but I'm not sure 4-1 on Thanksgiving week is the time to settle on that.
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Agreed. Greatest thing about making the NIT already this year is even though we lost, we get to play another game!!!! 5 years into the Groce era. smh.
Very bad losses and very good wins get double digit pages. Lose to Winthrop at home and that will do it. Win against Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas and you will also get a very positive reaction.
What's the explanation as to why this team can't rebound?
I was expecting rebounding to be a real strength given the size of this team and all the hype about improved strength and vertical leap.
I'm also confused by Groce's comments after the game:
"We needed this type of game...against a team with experience...that's how you learn..."
Why does a veteran team that should be incredibly hungry need a lesson from Winthrop?
I was expecting rebounding to be a real strength given the size of this team and all the hype about improved strength and vertical leap.
I'm also confused by Groce's comments after the game:
"We needed this type of game...against a team with experience...that's how you learn..."
Why does a veteran team that should be incredibly hungry need a lesson from Winthrop?
We don't know that yet. Morgan and Thorne were bad tonight, but I think they can both play better. Black was alright but rusty...I think he will play better. And who knows what Kipper and Lucas can provide moving forward. Like I said...let's see how we progress.
And look around college basketball, top 25 teams are losing or going down to the wire with low level programs every week. Michigan St barely survived last night. If you don't bring you're A-game there are plenty of teams like Winthrop that will take advantage.
If he isn't the right coach for this fine institution, aren't you, in essence, saying that he should be fired? How else should he leave, if not fired?
Problem with that logic is, while most teams we play won't have a PG go 15/21, we are going to see A LOT of teams that are much stronger and deeper than Winthrop. Keon Johnson is far from the best player we will see this year, and his supporting cast pales in comparison to other B10 teams we will see in many cases. Winthrop is a mid major team with a CHANCE at making the tourney, not butler or VCU. Keon Johnson is a nice player, not a wooden award candidate. Despite his great game we should have had the ammo to beat them.
Our size advantage was definitely limited by the calls by the officials. The entire game, I was thinking/saying "if they call Big 10 games like this, most games will finish with the walk-ons playing". I haven't seen such ticky-tack stuff called all year...and that goes for both teams tonight. Winthrop got called for some fouls that made me wonder WTH the refs were watching... Can't use your size if extending your arm is a foul. Seems that the Villanova-Purdon't game had a lot more physical play and not as many fouls...??? Baseline official tonight was absolutely horrible...:tsk:
If he isn't the right coach for this fine institution, aren't you, in essence, saying that he should be fired? How else should he leave, if not fired?
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough.... I just was responding to a post about wanting Groce to be fired 'right now'... When I said (yet)...
I wasn't happy about hiring a mid-major coach with a 34-30 record to begin with, but I don't think firing a coach mid-season is the thing to do... Particularly when the 1st asst. is even a bigger disaster.... IMO
True that Groce has made his bed in his time here, but Weber took a NC runner-up finish into a pretty deep hole. IMO, no matter who would have followed BW, would have a pretty steep hill to climb to get back to the "glory days". Orris and James would have been our guards...???...:tsk:
Agreed. Maybe Malcolm is just a clumsy guy, but he seems to fall down going to the rim A LOT. I have a feeling he takes some pretty strong contact most of the time, but he is so well built that the refs don't care. And that is really unfortunate because it leads to him settling for jumpers more often than not.
Only lost by 14 to FSU without Johnson is really good? That's a pretty low barometer for success.
It would be just our luck if Keon Johnson got injured soon and has to miss the rest of the season, thus causing Winthrop to tank and make it look like a terrible loss on the resume.
And yes, losing to FSU (a top-25 team) by 14 without your 20+ ppg scorer is very respectable.
And yes, losing to FSU (a top-25 team) by 14 without your 20+ ppg scorer is very respectable.
I just watched the game. Did not read all these pages.
Keon Johnson is the real deal. Holy crap Mav and FInke were garbage tonight. Finke made some shots but also made some bad plays and made the plays that lost the game in OT(threw the ball away after stealing the inbounds and then doesnt box his man on a freeaking free throw and they get two more and ice it.) Sometimes you just have a bad night I guess.
Thorne didnt really get many touches tonight. When he did he mostly made plays.
Leron not coming in the first 4 minutes of OT was a huge and costly mistake. He clearly got it going in the second half. And then he was taken out at the end of OT. Again, mistake. (although we did steal the inbounds! and then gave it away again)
Malcolm has to stop forcing it so much. He does too much when its not necessary. He just dribbles right into where our post guys are,clogging it up, and takes tough contested shots that never go in. He does this every game. He needs to take good shots in rhythm, like he got early on, and its nothing but cash. He then proceeded to miss like his next 10 shots after his hot start early.
Also, no DJW???
Leron and Tracy need to be on the floor as much as possible. We were clearly outplaying them when they were out there. JCL needs to be in to get his groove back. From there, you have Malcolm(self explanatory) and a big man. Winning formula.
I think we needed this loss to wake us up. And I think it does. I think we come out fired up against WVU and ready to play.
I mean, so much went wrong tonight. I think if we played this team 100 times, this was that one time they would win.
Keon Johnson is the real deal. Holy crap Mav and FInke were garbage tonight. Finke made some shots but also made some bad plays and made the plays that lost the game in OT(threw the ball away after stealing the inbounds and then doesnt box his man on a freeaking free throw and they get two more and ice it.) Sometimes you just have a bad night I guess.
Thorne didnt really get many touches tonight. When he did he mostly made plays.
Leron not coming in the first 4 minutes of OT was a huge and costly mistake. He clearly got it going in the second half. And then he was taken out at the end of OT. Again, mistake. (although we did steal the inbounds! and then gave it away again)
Malcolm has to stop forcing it so much. He does too much when its not necessary. He just dribbles right into where our post guys are,clogging it up, and takes tough contested shots that never go in. He does this every game. He needs to take good shots in rhythm, like he got early on, and its nothing but cash. He then proceeded to miss like his next 10 shots after his hot start early.
Also, no DJW???
Leron and Tracy need to be on the floor as much as possible. We were clearly outplaying them when they were out there. JCL needs to be in to get his groove back. From there, you have Malcolm(self explanatory) and a big man. Winning formula.
I think we needed this loss to wake us up. And I think it does. I think we come out fired up against WVU and ready to play.
I mean, so much went wrong tonight. I think if we played this team 100 times, this was that one time they would win.
Yes I'm disappointed. Yes I'm angry. But win or lose I still support my ILLINI. Let's show some class, respect our opposition and move on. Season ain't over yet. We still got a lottttt of basketball left.
Pretty rational take on the game tonight. If you throw in the ticky-tack calls by the refs (that we'll hopefully never see in the conference season), you have things covered pretty well. On to WVU.
Illinifan1951
- Southeastern Illinois
i once heard a very successful high school coach comment that players get credit for wins and coaches get the blame for losses.