Wisconsin 75, Illinois 50 POSTGAME

#126      

IlliniDent

IlliniDent
Chicago, IL
IlliniDent
Verified Insider said:
Well, plenty of loser programs manage to recruit well......but there's typically a time limit with that. New coaches especially get a bit of a honeymoon period. But I agree......if we're not winning next year, I think that will start to hurt recruiting.

Losing this year? Eh, I don't think that'll sway Tevian Jones or Liddell or Okoro or Whitney or those guys. They get it -- we have a new coach, a young roster, etc. Underwood can sell them on the future rather than have to defend his track record here. But that grace period runs out after another year or so.

Underwood has to recruit his way out of his dumpster. Bottom line. Ayo is a good start, but if he doesn't add shooters, athletes, and bigs.......well......
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Agreed, the window shuts pretty quickly if you dont turn things around. We desperately need Liddell and Okoro to go with an athletic scoring wing and we need it fast. Thankfully we have Ayo who can sell a change in culture and production going forward but it is a shame we weren't able to figure everything out with THT and missed out on a big for next year as well.
 
#127      

icengineer

I
Southern Illinois
icengineer
Spoon House said:
Underwood's comments and the on-floor product (Frazier on PG consists of a 3-man game between himself, Black, and Ebo). Have to assume Lucas' suspension is also a symptom of negative morale.

But yes, you're correct, I have no "inside knowledge" of specific conflicts within the roster.
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If these are the only three showing a willingness or ability to score inside, do you really try to force the ball into someones hands who can't or won't drive to the basket?!?!? I've seen plenty of wide open three's passed on by our perimeter players who should be taking them. I do not fault Frasier one iota, he wants to win and he's feeding the ball to the guys who've earned it.
 
#128      

Branson53

B
Branson53
TCTORNADO said:
Purdue 66 Iowa 28 @ HT. Purdue with 2 top 100 kids and one, Eastern, doesn't play.:mad:
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That's what having a good coach looks like.

The only way to look at how this season has gone is to hope that Underwood is completely breaking the team down so he can build them back up the way he wants to. He said he will never be "out stubborned." I guess we will see.
 
#129      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
Branson53 said:
That's what having a good coach looks like.

The only way to look at how this season has gone is to hope that Underwood is completely breaking the team down so he can build them back up the way he wants to. He said he will never be "out stubborned." I guess we will see.
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yeah the key is to find a coach from the weber coaching tree like Painter....just kidding

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#130      

PEORIAFLA

PEORIAFLA
PEORIAFLA
Wisconsin threw in at least 5 contested three point prayers at the end of the shot clock. It's just one of those nights. Upperclassmen except for Black are really struggling in this system. Finke doesnt look to shoot anymore and the freshman are hitting the wall.

I just hope when it all comes together we can get five of our first seven conference games at home!!!
 
#132      

Calvin

C
Calvin
Not gonna pile on. Thought no way could this year be worse, for the past 3-4 seasons, and yet, here we are. The few of us left to root for the team, will appreciate any effort to win games. Hope to heck the guys work through this. No fun being a fan...like at all.
 
#133      

Illini B-Ball Fan

Illini B-Ball Fan
Illini B-Ball Fan
Wow, kept watching the game clock last night wishing this would end like asap, longest game ever especially when losing. Almost went to Madison to watch in-person, glad I didn't. Was sure TJL would play, but to no avail, maybe against MI St, we'll see. If we'd won the Nebraska game, believe there would have been a much different attitude going forward. Last night, WI knew exactly how to play us and had us scouted to a T. Was hoping we could stay within 10 points, but WI burst our bubble in the second half and it was over once they got up over 20 on us.

Good news - we outrebounded them by 2. Bad news - B1G loss #7.

http://fightingillini.com/documents/2018/1/19/G20_ILL_WIS_Box_Score.pdf
 
#135      

KSmooth

K
KSmooth
To be perfectly honest, the exhibition loss at Eastern was a red flag. I'm disappointed to be sure, but not exactly shocked by how poorly this team has been playing. Bottom line is they're young and the talent isn't enough to overcome the lack of experience -- both overall and in Underwood's system.

They should be much better next year. But if they aren't...
 
#136      

Swamp Donkey

Swamp Donkey
Swamp Donkey
Kathy said:
That simply is not true.
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Every time someone has something remotely negative about a player, you disagree. It is not a knock against the guy, it is just an honest observation. We are talking about a player that is just scratching the surface of his IQ. He does not have the experience playing against high level talent that many of the other players have. It is ludicrous to think that a player with that little experience would have the IQ of a player such as Ayo.
 
#137      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
Verified Insider said:
A conversation for another thread I suppose, but the THT thing still irritates the hell out of me.

All I can say is, kicking THT to the curb better damn well be worth it in the end. Because we are in desperate need of getting new talent with new attitudes into this program, and he was precisely the kind of kid that helps us take that next step.
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You know the next n*t punch is going to come when THT wins Mr. BB award.:(
 
#138      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
On game shot chart I counted 19 attempts outside of the key and we only made 2. we had 7 assts and 14 TOs. Not stats to win with.

Wiscy had 10 blocks to add to our 14 TOs.
 
#139      

Kathy

K
Kathy
Swamp Donkey said:
Every time someone has something remotely negative about a player, you disagree. It is not a knock against the guy, it is just an honest observation. We are talking about a player that is just scratching the surface of his IQ. He does not have the experience playing against high level talent that many of the other players have. It is ludicrous to think that a player with that little experience would have the IQ of a player such as Ayo.
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I think you're wrong
 
#141      

OrangeNBrood

O
OrangeNBrood
Whitmans Sampler said:
At first I was like:

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..but then I was like:

giphy-downsized-large.gif
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Hahahaha! Nicely done.

Very imaginative.

Brought some joy to my day.
 
#143      

pruman91

pruman91
Paducah, Ky
pruman91
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/coll...cle_a3ef6bf4-97bd-58a3-ac42-7e7bc690d968.html

It was telling that sophomore guard Te’Jon Lucas did not play Friday even though Underwood said he was available. That makes two games Lucas missed due to a suspension and a third because Underwood can’t believe a player would act so selfishly to get himself suspended in the first place.

Just a guess, but I’ll be the least-surprised person in the world if next season’s roster does not include Te’Jon Lucas and quite possibly one more current veteran. Changes are coming.


Underwood wasn’t kidding when he said his own stubbornness to orchestrate this turnaround would be more resolute than any doubter who didn’t believe it would happen.
 
#144      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
Verified Insider said:
Right. The designation alone means nothing.

Look at Mark Smith vs. Jordan Goodwin, for example. One was Mr. Basketball, while the other was very clearly more college-ready.

(yes, Goodwin's injury probably prevented him from getting the award)
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So did DaMonte's potentially. I still think we have the makings of 4 Mr Basketballs on the team...Frazier, Smith (rightful or not), Williams and Ayo.:chief:
 
#145      

Kathy

K
Kathy
pruman91 said:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/coll...cle_a3ef6bf4-97bd-58a3-ac42-7e7bc690d968.html

It was telling that sophomore guard Te’Jon Lucas did not play Friday even though Underwood said he was available. That makes two games Lucas missed due to a suspension and a third because Underwood can’t believe a player would act so selfishly to get himself suspended in the first place.

Just a guess, but I’ll be the least-surprised person in the world if next season’s roster does not include Te’Jon Lucas and quite possibly one more current veteran. Changes are coming.


Underwood wasn’t kidding when he said his own stubbornness to orchestrate this turnaround would be more resolute than any doubter who didn’t believe it would happen.
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I'm okay with guys, who are not producing, to be replaced. WE're all griping about not winning, well let's gets some better talent then.
 
#146      

whovous

W
Washington, DC
whovous
Kathy said:
I'm okay with guys, who are not producing, to be replaced. WE're all griping about not winning, well let's gets some better talent then.
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Aren't scholarships four year commitments these days? What happens if BU tells a player to stop coming to games and practices? If that player chooses to stay in school, does he keep the scholarship?

I realize that players wanna play, but what happens if they wanna stay even more?
 
#147      

Calvin

C
Calvin
barchetta6 said:
So Ohio State makes a coaching change. A team we finished ahead of last year. They sit 8-0 in league this year. What gives? People overreact to any change. Underwood has not shown me anything. Dislike his demeanor.
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A. agree Underwood has not shown anything in terms of execution.

B. No one really cares about his demeanor. They care that he can turn around a struggling program. I personally like his demeanor, but couldn't care less if he can't adjust to coach this team up.

At $3 mil a year, the university should be getting a talented, hard-working coach that can compete with anyone in the conference. 0-7, even though they've been really close in several, and in almost every game is still a bitter pill to swallow.
 
#148      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Demeanor, culture, learning ability, etc. etc. are just not as relevant. At the end, you need talent, and the talent in our program has not been where it should be to consistently compete in the B1G.

For years, people have argued that it is not a matter of talent, we have had the talent, and it was just coaching. That myth is dying.

You may hit good chemistry here and there and overachieve occasionally (e.g., Groce's first year) but this will wash out with other years where things may not go your way and end up with a few more losses than expected (this year is a classic example, we are probably a little better than the 0-7 B1G record shows).

But to win consistently, we need to start upgrading talent really soon, Ayo is good, but not nearly enough. Recruiting will determine the fate of Underwood.
 
#149      

IlliniDent

IlliniDent
Chicago, IL
IlliniDent
Obelix said:
Demeanor, culture, learning ability, etc. etc. are just not as relevant. At the end, you need talent, and the talent in our program has not been where it should be to consistently compete in the B1G.

For years, people have argued that it is not a matter of talent, we have had the talent, and it was just coaching. That myth is dying.

You may hit good chemistry here and there and overachieve occasionally (e.g., Groce's first year) but this will wash out with other years where things may not go your way and end up with a few more losses than expected (this year is a classic example, we are probably a little better than the 0-7 B1G record shows).

But to win consistently, we need to start upgrading talent really soon, Ayo is good, but not nearly enough. Recruiting will determine the fate of Underwood.
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Agreed, coaching plays a large role in it all but without the talent it just won’t work. Coaching and recruiting to a defined system plays an important role as well and is an important piece but without the basic parts like a PG or a post presence to a team it’s almost impossible to be reliably successful.
 
#150      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
IlliniDent said:
Agreed, coaching plays a large role in it all but without the talent it just won’t work. Coaching and recruiting to a defined system plays an important role as well and is an important piece but without the basic parts like a PG or a post presence to a team it’s almost impossible to be reliably successful.
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as for OH ST....obviously their new coach meshes with their talent.

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