2017 Coaching Carousel

[thunderwear]

The Illinois job is much more desirable now than it was in 2012. Newly renovated facilities. Well respected AD. Great recruiting class coming in plus solid pieces among your returning players. Another advantage is you have no seniors next year. If a coach can get next year's group to excel, it gives him a huge advantage because he returns that entire team the following year and gives him the opportunity to create some big time momentum to propel the program back into the upper echelons of the game.

I don't think people are making an argument that groce needs to stay. The argument is what's the best option. Take a mediocre coach because he is better than groce, or find a strong coach who can build Illinois basketball future. You have to think the direction is wait for the right person. If we have a debacle transition, that class is gone and we don't know that players like black may leave as well.

For the health of the program, I believe the recruiting class needs to stay together and enroll, or we need someone similar to Lovie take over. At this point, based in who is available, it's not clear to me that we have the second. If not, I'd rather take a year, bring in the class and begin the search next year to pull a stud coach

 

[thunderwear]

I don't understand how far some people think we've fallen. Yes we have had a string of bad seasons. Even if we finished dead last in the Big 10 for 10 straight years, coaches would still want to come here with our facilities, resources, location, conference, etc...

How did we end up with Groce who was our fifth or sixth option? If you are a new coach and you see basically one class of scholarships. So many open seats. And a three year tenure to qualify for the NCAA, Illinois right now (without the incoming class) does not look attractive. The potential is there, but moving your family around for potential without seeing execution happening, is a poor choice. Plus, if you don't have irons in the fire for recruiting, you potentially lose another class or two. That's not a recipe for success. I love Illinois, and I wouldn't take that kind of job.

 

[Tygor]

Yeah I could see JW giving Groce another year if the football program was booming and the basketball team lived in their shadow. But as it stands now, basketball is the top dog at the school and so it's hard to hide the glaring faults of what is going on. Football isn't going to turn it around next year either (a year or two away yet) and I can't imagine the pressure JW will be under if the basketball team isn't changed next year.

The real solution is to have college Golf become extremely popular and a big revenue sport so it can carry us the next couple years

 

[UofI08]

One of the apologists, please find an example of a similar basketball coaching situation where a class of 4 signed recruits ALL decommitted and went elsewhere. I'm talking about the players wanting out, not a the coach "forcing" them out. It just doesn't happen. I don't know which strawman is worse: the "we won't find a coach better than Groce" or the "we'll lose all our recruits"

 

[UofI08]

How did we end up with Groce who was our fifth or sixth option

That's a list and decision issue in my mind. For example, Chris Collins supposedly really wanted to job, but Thomas supposedly wasn't interested in anyone lacking HC experience.

 

[Tygor]

One of the apologists, please find an example of a similar basketball coaching situation where a class of 4 signed recruits ALL decommitted and went elsewhere. I'm talking about the players wanting out, not a the coach "forcing" them out. It just doesn't happen. I don't know which strawman is worse: the "we won't find a coach better than Groce" or the "we'll lose all our recruits"

Exactly this. If a recruit wants to leave before their first game because Groce is gone, what makes you think they won't leave after one season with him gone after finishing 14-17 again?

 

[Ga65]

I know it's Geno Auriemma.

 

[UofI08]

The firings of Zook and Weber were not mistakes by Mike Thomas. The Beckman and Groce hires were. Granted Mike Thomas may not have been liked by all available coaches, but he had plenty of options.

He'd still be here and we'd all be singing our praises if Narduzzi and Collins were his choices.

We are still in the B1G with good facilities and resources. These are great jobs that people want.

 

[UofI08]

How did we end up with Groce who was our fifth or sixth option? If you are a new coach and you see basically one class of scholarships. So many open seats. And a three year tenure to qualify for the NCAA, Illinois right now (without the incoming class) does not look attractive. The potential is there, but moving your family around for potential without seeing execution happening, is a poor choice. Plus, if you don't have irons in the fire for recruiting, you potentially lose another class or two. That's not a recipe for success. I love Illinois, and I wouldn't take that kind of job.

Kinda sounds like you have less confidence in yourself to do the job than in the situation.

Just look at our football team. Lovie Smith, an established, well-respected coach, took over our dumpster fire of a program.

 

[thunderwear]

The firings of Zook and Weber were not mistakes by Mike Thomas. The Beckman and Groce hires were. Granted Mike Thomas may not have been liked by all available coaches, but he had plenty of options.

He'd still be here and we'd all be singing our praises if Narduzzi and Collins were his choices.

We are still in the B1G with good facilities and resources. These are great jobs that people want.

If I implied people don't want the job, I misspoke, certainly people want the job. But the question is do the people we want to take the job want our job more than the other jobs that are available. I think the position of the program is important.

I want us to find a great coach and to win basketball games. I think JW will make what he thinks is the right call. I wouldn't be upset if Groce stayed because I have faith in Whitman

 

[UofI08]

If I implied people don't want the job, I misspoke, certainly people want the job. But the question is do the people we want to take the job want our job more than the other jobs that are available. I think the position of the program is important.

I want us to find a great coach and to win basketball games. I think JW will make what he thinks is the right call. I wouldn't be upset if Groce stayed because I have faith in Whitman

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. It just seems like too many people are scared of what we might miss on vs excited about what we might get.

We're to the point where Groce has, as Robert put it, had his fair shake. It's time to move on. He's spent the last 4 seasons proving he can't compete in the B1G. There are plenty of coaches out there that can do better. We may hear leaks about a Marshall or Miller turning down the job. Honestly, I'd be surprised if we didn't hear something like that.

The point is, Groce is not a good coach and we need to hire a new one. It's up to JW to conduct a far better search and decision-making process than our previous AD did.

 

[ShellbackMB]

Can someone make a "Keep Groce" thread for the 4 delusional people to hug each other?

There's no way Groce is not fired. Please stop with the strawman arguments about not finding someone better than Groce. There is a good argument to be made that Groce is the worst coach in the Big Ten. There's probably 50 better coaches available.

Thank you!!! We could also bury the discussion in a thread titled "How to Torch any Prospect of a Good 2018 Recruiting Class"

 

[Bogey99]

If I implied people don't want the job, I misspoke, certainly people want the job. But the question is do the people we want to take the job want our job more than the other jobs that are available. I think the position of the program is important.

I want us to find a great coach and to win basketball games. I think JW will make what he thinks is the right call. I wouldn't be upset if Groce stayed because I have faith in Whitman

Keeping Groce is the only thing that would cause me to lose faith in Whitman. If he wants to go with NBA guy (Williams), up and coming guy (Keatts), established P5 guy (Cuonzo) or someone else out of the blue, fine with me, as long as he does SOMETHING.

 

[UofI08]

.....Obviously, Keeping Groce is not ideal but for now, I don't think it'll put a dagger in the heart of the program.....

 

[IntenselyOrange]

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. It just seems like too many people are scared of what we might miss on vs excited about what we might get.

We're to the point where Groce has, as Robert put it, had his fair shake. It's time to move on. He's spent the last 4 seasons proving he can't compete in the B1G. There are plenty of coaches out there that can do better. We may hear leaks about a Marshall or Miller turning down the job. Honestly, I'd be surprised if we didn't hear something like that.

The point is, Groce is not a good coach and we need to hire a new one. It's up to JW to conduct a far better search and decision-making process than our previous AD did.

The bolded was true the last time around also. I argued that it was unlikely to get worse and that if it did get worse we could just move on in 3 years and try again. It's been more than 3 years, but I still have the same philosophy. To me, it is a very simple question - can the current coach get you to where you want to be. For the basketball program that means a top 5 seed in the tourney most years, a realistic chance at the second weekend of the tournament most years, and an occasional run at a Final Four. I'd love to get a championship, but those are the pre-requisites to competing for a championship.

Groce will not accomplish that here. It's impossible to imagine the sequence of events that would get him there. The incoming players are intriguing, but if he can't get seniors to the tourney, there is no reason to think he can get Freshmen there. And let's see him recruit when we haven't been to the tourney in 5 years and Northwestern is coming off back to back trips .

 

[OrangeAndBlues]

Thank you!!! We could also bury the discussion in a thread titled "How to Torch any Prospect of a Good 2018 Recruiting Class"

But our 2017 class is so good we won't NEED anyone to commit in 2018!!!


:hand::tsk:

 

[IntenselyOrange]

Keeping Groce is the only thing that would cause me to lose faith in Whitman. If he wants to go with NBA guy (Williams), up and coming guy (Keatts), established P5 guy (Cuonzo) or someone else out of the blue, fine with me, as long as he does SOMETHING.

I think this describes the vast majority of the fanbase.

 

[UrbanaIsTheShiz]

Yeah it's a very sobering thought. You could make the argument for every other coach over Groce.

he is probably one of the 5 or 6 worst P5 coaches. I am confident a much better, realistic option exists, based solely on how poorly this staff has done.

 

[UrbanaIsTheShiz]

But our 2017 class is so good we won't NEED anyone to commit in 2018!!!


:hand::tsk:

We probably don't even need a coach next year! Winner winner chicken dinner!

 

[UrbanaIsTheShiz]

Go Illini!

I know it is better for us to wait until the end of the season to act.
Still I come here every day to see if Whitman disagreed.

 

[Lucy727]

Gee looks like Josh Whitman was in Phoenix yesterday. Wonder who else lives in Phoenix? (Colangelo)

https://twitter.com/IlliniAD/status/831941481300586497

 

[FollowTisdale]

Gee looks like Josh Whitman was in Phoenix yesterday. Wonder who else lives in Phoenix? (Colangelo)

https://twitter.com/IlliniAD/status/831941481300586497

Colangelo is running the Sixers, but he might still live in Phoenix, idk.

 

[ILLHangOut]

For those even considering keeping Groce another year, I respect your opinion, but I'd like you to hear some facts.

Illinois has a 112 year basketball history.

1. Last year we had the 6th lowest conference winning %ever @ 28%. The only seasons with a worse win % were: 1906, 1927, 1973, 1974, and 1998. Keep in mind that 1906 was the first year of Illini basketball.

2. This year we currently have the 8th lowest conference winning % ever @ 31%. Depending on how the year finishes we will end up somewhere between the 5th and 28th lowest winning percentage.

3. We have had 31 years with a sub-.500 conference winning percentage. John Groce accounts for 4 of those years in a 5 year span. There is only one other timeframe where we have experienced 4 sub 500 seasons in a 5 year span: 1973 -1979 were all sub-500.

4. John Groce has the lowest 5 year Rolling Average Conference Winning % outside of the 1974-1978 years which, based on the numbers, are the lowest point in Illini basketball history.

5. We have finished in the bottom 2 of our conference 5 times ever. Last year was the 5th, and this year has the potential to make it a 6th.

6. Last year was our 9th lowest overall winning % ever, and our 2nd lowest since 1974. In 1998 we were 14-18, last year we were 15-19. Those are our 2 worst seasons in 40+ years. Weber's 2007-08 season is 3rd worst, and the only other losing season since 1977. We have only had 3 losing seasons in the last 40 years.

7. We are in danger of not making a postseason tournament 2 years in a row. This has only happened once before in the modern era - 1990/91 and 1991/92 while we were on sanctions. In 1990/91 we were 3rd place in conference and clearly would've made the tournament.

I could go on, and I'm not cherry-picking statistics to fit my narrative. I challenge anyone to find a statistic that places John Groce's Illini teams favorably in our history.

My point is that during our 112 year history there have been injuries, sanctions, and recruiting losses; however, the team still managed to find success relative to what has been achieved the last 5 years.

Looking at the numbers the '70s were a very rough time, but objectively I believe that from Weber's last season to this current season is the 2nd worst period in Illini basketball history.

Let's at least agree its time to move on.

 

[Illini4Reel]

For those even considering keeping Groce another year, I respect your opinion, but I'd like you to hear some facts.

Illinois has a 112 year basketball history.

1. Last year we had the 6th lowest conference winning %ever @ 28%. The only seasons with a worse win % were: 1906, 1927, 1973, 1974, and 1998. Keep in mind that 1906 was the first year of Illini basketball.

2. This year we currently have the 8th lowest conference winning % ever @ 31%. Depending on how the year finishes we will end up somewhere between the 5th and 28th lowest winning percentage.

3. We have had 31 years with a sub-.500 conference winning percentage. John Groce accounts for 4 of those years in a 5 year span. There is only one other timeframe where we have experienced 4 sub 500 seasons in a 5 year span: 1973 -1979 were all sub-500.

4. John Groce has the lowest 5 year Rolling Average Conference Winning % outside of the 1974-1978 years which, based on the numbers, are the lowest point in Illini basketball history.

5. We have finished in the bottom 2 of our conference 5 times ever. Last year was the 5th, and this year has the potential to make it a 6th.

6. Last year was our 9th lowest overall winning % ever, and our 2nd lowest since 1974. In 1998 we were 14-18, last year we were 15-19. Those are our 2 worst seasons in 40+ years. Weber's 2007-08 season is 3rd worst, and the only other losing season since 1977. We have only had 3 losing seasons in the last 40 years.

7. We are in danger of not making a postseason tournament 2 years in a row. This has only happened once before in the modern era - 1990/91 and 1991/92 while we were on sanctions. In 1990/91 we were 3rd place in conference and clearly would've made the tournament.

I could go on, and I'm not cherry-picking statistics to fit my narrative. I challenge anyone to find a statistic that places John Groce's Illini teams favorably in our history.

My point is that during our 112 year history there have been injuries, sanctions, and recruiting losses; however, the team still managed to find success relative to what has been achieved the last 5 years.

Looking at the numbers the '70s were a very rough time, but objectively I believe that from Weber's last season to this current season is the 2nd worst period in Illini basketball history.

Let's at least agree its time to move on.

Please forward this to Josh Whitman

 

[westvilleillini]

he is probably one of the 5 or 6 worst P5 coaches. I am confident a much better, realistic option exists, based solely on how poorly this staff has done.

Had some down time at work so I actually looked into this. From some quick googling, there are 3 P5 coaches who have been with their current teams for 3+ years and have a worse conference winning percentage than John Groce.

Pat Chambers .282
Andy Enfield .323
Tim Miles .376