You got it boiled down to basics and hit the nail on the head on the hiring strategy. Marginally better gets us in the tourney and rejuvenates interest in the program. That's what we need right now to stop the decline.
2017 Coaching Carousel
- Status
You got it boiled down to basics and hit the nail on the head on the hiring strategy. Marginally better gets us in the tourney and rejuvenates interest in the program. That's what we need right now to stop the decline.
The year 3 team would have won at least four more games had TA not got hurt and I could point to the specific games from that year that they would have won. His defense and leadership was so valuable to our success. That would have put them at 23-8, 13-5 in the B1G, likely top 4 seed in the B1G tourney and top 5 seed in the NCAA tourney. So many dominoes fell because of that injury, including JE not coming here.
OrangeAndBlues
- Indianapolis
But that's sports. Every team has things like that happen. It's what you do when it hits that matters. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.
Historically poor results, gotta go.
TownieMatt
CU Expat
- Chicago
Personally don't think the player behavior issues should factor into the decision. IMO each was a personal error in judgement and not indicative of bad culture in the program. These are kids, they make mistakes.
That being said, reasons A and B should be enough to make a change.
Let's be real about this, there are three factors that can save Groce if we don't make the tournament.
1. He has a good recruiting class coming in
2. There may not be a coach that JW likes on the market at the end of the season
3. Groce is a good dude
I don't agree with Johnny SI columnist that Groce is 100% gone, but it's hard to believe that a change isn't likely.
OrangeAndBlues
- Indianapolis
You basically do. He has one year left, and allowing a coach to finish out that year without an extension is essentially a vote of no confidence. If you are a recruit and your college/professional ball career hinge on your choice, do you want to go where your guy is going to get fired the year after?
We need to get past this "I like Groce" argument and get back to Illinois basketball. We ALL like Groce. He's a really likable guy. I'd be happy to grab a beer with him... after he takes that orange jacket off.
And that's what makes this a no-brainer IMHO.
Btw, a poster said it's relatively easy at Illinois to get a winning coach, based on looking at the last 4 coaches. I'm going to say that's not reality. Lon was an exceptional coach, and Self was pretty solid. We should be able to get a good one, but the landscape of coaching has changed. In-demand coaches have been known to turn down handsome amounts for stability and fit, and smaller programs have been able to come up with quite a bit of money to keep a coveted coach. The market has leveled out to a degree for both coaches and talent, and that makes a hire riskier. You're always 1 coach away from success or failure. I think our last 2 coaches demonstrate that.
As explained in multiple previous posts that is not the case. Groce is in no position the dictate guarantees and buyouts so the contract is not a big issue. If that was the case, Groce would be guaranteed to be the coach for the next 2 years as his current contract runs until 2019.
History shows potential of the program. However, our (positive) history is highly skewed towards earlier successes whereas impact of history is highly skewed towards recent successes. In recent years (12 years), we have become irrelevant in college basketball. That is why the next hire is so critical, impact of history is not memoryless where you can pick up from earlier historical successes 5 years from now.
All Obelix was saying was that if Groce had leverage, he'd be coaching out the rest of his contract, and Groce does not have leverage.
It is not technicalities, it is realities that you simply ignore. You can't say that if you extend Groce you lock yourself for the duration of his new contract whereas the current duration of his contract is irrelevant, although it runs until 2019. It is a contradiction that simply shows ignorance, as well as the statement about Cubit, totally different situations.
Whether you decide to fire Groce or not is a decision that will be based on other more important factors, not his contract.
He has zero leverage, not only on his current contract but also negotiating any future terms.
Yeah, I know. The concept he's locked in should we extend him is inaccurate, that buyout will be dirt cheap if anything should he be extended. I'm not worried about that, I just don't see the logic behind punting the decision a year.
I posted this elsewhere, but here are a few simple facts to support your point:
I’ve been watching for 38 years.
During the first 28 of those years we made the tournament 22 times. Eighteen of those times as a top 6 seed, including three #1s, a #2, three #3’s, and six #4’s.
During the last 10 years (including this one, which I will count as a miss) we have made the tournament three times, only once as a top six seed.
Two points:
You can win here. We should be able to attract a good coach, especially if we dedicate resources commensurate with where we stood for my first 28 years.
Miraculously squeaking into the tournament as a double digit seed this year would not much change the overall trend of the last five or last ten years. The time is now to make a change.
Last edited:
Illinois really should be one of the better teams in the league based off our history and the ridiculous amount of talent in this state even though Chicago is tricky. Nebraska, Indiana, OSU and Illinois fan bases all want the coaches fired, this is a very difficult league to win in and with all the BTN dollars no one, even Nebraska is accepting losing. Nebraska, Penn State and NW all used to be gimmie Ws but not anymore
Tony Bennett
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Is Bennett getting play on NC State boards? I'd think they'd be as excited about an in-conference hire as most here are. Which is not excited.
That post was a list of candidates NC State message board posters are discussing for their opening for comparison, not a list of our candidates. Although there is a lot of overlap.
IlliniInOK
- no longer in OK! Centralia, IL
So again, to be clear, you don't want Tony Bennett, who coached Virginia to back to back ACC Titles (the latter of which came in a year when Duke won the National Title), isn't good enough to get Illinois to compete for Big Ten titles?
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Anyone who's looked up the history can correct me if I'm wrong, but switching from one conference school to another seems relatively taboo, especially in the Big Ten. I mean, when was the last time it happened?
Anyway, Bennett would be such a homerun it's not even funny ... I can't see him leaving for a non-Blue Blood, but you never know. We might have a 5% chance, but I'd put NC State at zero.
Anyway, Bennett would be such a homerun it's not even funny ... I can't see him leaving for a non-Blue Blood, but you never know. We might have a 5% chance, but I'd put NC State at zero.
illinipioneer
- Richmond, VA
With all the trades the Bulls made, does this signal that they are blowing everything up and attempting to reset, which would free up Hoiberg?
I don't follow NBA very close so I will defer to the board's depth of knowledge:thumb:
I don't follow NBA very close so I will defer to the board's depth of knowledge:thumb:
The Bulls actually did the opposite and decided not to blow it up. If we are to believe the reports, the Bulls could have traded Butler for high draft picks but didn't want to start over.
Either way, the timelines don't really align for a current NBA coach to come to Illinois unless we keep Groce until May or June, which isn't ideal.
illinipioneer
- Richmond, VA
Thanks for the clarification, I just don't have my finger close enough to the pulse to know what is going on. I know one thing though, like you said, the only way we end up with an NBA affiliated individual is if we go the Monty route or someone appetizing gets canned.
- Status