Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (August 2018)

[FeelYourPaign]

People on this site amaze me. One minute saying we waste official visits and then saying we should get Cockburn on campus even though they think it is a courtesy visit.

You do understand that there are diverse and independent people on here, right? With diverse and independent opinions? And that if those opinions were not different, that is what would be amazing? Right?

 

[IlliniinIowa]

So Underwood should go after great recruits and do whatever is necessary...but eh don’t waste an official visit to a recruit who could end up gaining interest and loving it....which is exactly what an official visit is intended on doing

No......I'm saying based on Cockburn's quote it seems like to him visiting Illinois is just a courtesy on his part. It's awesome our staff was able to secure a visit, but it seems Cockburn isn't as interested. Again,like I said, hope the staff can change Cockburn's mentality. Though I'm not confident they can.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

The fact that we are so desperate to offer scholarships to plan Q recruits should be alarming by itself.

I'll be alarmed in the future if this is the case. Quite frankly, in year one, with the situation we've got, I wasn't that bothered by it.

To be clear, we aren't offering plan Q guys for the '19 year. If and when that happens, I'll be alarmed.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

Unfortunately, there are more people who have regularly eaten crow in the last 15 years for saying similar to what you are claiming rather than the other way around.

As even our own basketball history proves, to be consistently good and contenders, you need the talent. So as I have said many times, to have success at Illinois, a coach needs to be a very good recruiter. BU needs to turn it around, but reality is that so far he has not shown that recruiting acumen yet. The rest is blind hope that we will outsystem and outdevelop the rest of B10 and top national programs with some kind of magic recruiting "strategy" that finds lesser ranked players who consistently surprise on the court.

Where do you rate Beilein? Because he's been a decent recruiter, but not what I'd call "very good"

 

[Joel Goodson]

You do understand that there are diverse and independent people on here, right? With diverse and independent opinions? And that if those opinions were not different, that is what would be amazing? Right?

Au contraire! IL is a textbook example of a uniform, collective hive mind.

 

[sacraig]

The fact that we are so desperate to offer scholarships to plan Q recruits should be alarming by itself.

Well that's also true, but the roster turnover from last year to now was (one would hope) an outlier, and therefore so was the recruiting dynamic.

 

[TopOtheKey]

Based on those quotes, that looks to be the case exactly. Courtesy visit. Nothing more....just hope somehow someway we can change that mentality. Though I'm not the least bit hopeful.

Understand the urge to call this a “courtesy visit” But why would a teenager do that? It’s not like central Illinois is a cool place like, let’s say, Oregon. And it’s lousy travel from a lot of places. Maybe there is something just intriguing enough for him to come?

Am I hopeful of a commitment? No, but strange things do happen.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

I personally don't understand the Illini losing a 4 Star recruit Terrance Shannon to DePaul. That's the way it is and I hope he has a good college career. I am, however, starting to worry about being out done by schools like DePaul. I get losing 5 Star Khalil Whitney to Kentucky, that's an uphill fight all the way but Shannon to DePaul? I'm not calling for BU's removal, jump off a bridge or even dwell on this past this post. However, how do the Illini claw their way back to a top 25 team without getting a good cadre of 4 Star Players they target? My answer, they don't, which is concerning.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

Kofi Cockburn taking visits to UK, UCONN, Illinois and FSU.

He also called UCONN a Blue Blood.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/08/12/kofi-cockburn-planning-four-visits/

This is an argument for another thread but 4 championships in the last 19 years leads all programs. If you were an 18 year old on the east coast you would probably consider them a blue blood as well.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Between being an MIF player and being an in-state kid who didn't blow up until late, Shannon is exactly the sort of kid we're set up to land. It's disturbing that we're this late in the process without any commits or even seemingly super strong leads AGAIN.

Getting an early commit from a big the staff likes should have been a priority. It should still be.

 

[Ratskin]

I’m guessing Shannon was told he’d be redshirted and he moved on. Does he still plan for prep school?

 

[NeaforThree]

TIFWIW but on reddit and other boards, some people are hearing that BU wasn't willing to "try harder" in a sketchy sense of the word to securely land Shannon, whereas other coaches were. Seems that from a PR standpoint he really, really wants to not leave any doubt or wade into any kind of grey areas after the whole Lamont Evans situation. Of course this could be 100% false and rumor but just saying what some other boards are coming up with, please don't shoot the messenger lol

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

I personally don't understand the Illini losing a 4 Star recruit Terrance Shannon to DePaul. That's the way it is and I hope he has a good college career. I am, however, starting to worry about being out done by schools like DePaul. I get losing 5 Star Khalil Whitney to Kentucky, that's an uphill fight all the way but Shannon to DePaul? I'm not calling for BU's removal, jump off a bridge or even dwell on this past this post. However, how do the Illini claw their way back to a top 25 team without getting a good cadre of 4 Star Players they target? My answer, they don't, which is concerning.

We as a fan base rationalize that recruits can become legends by choosing UI over bigger offers and returning their state school back to glory but can't fathom the same concept happening against us vs. DePaul.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

Between being an MIF player and being an in-state kid who didn't blow up until late, Shannon is exactly the sort of kid we're set up to land. It's disturbing that we're this late in the process without any commits or even seemingly super strong leads AGAIN.

Getting an early commit from a big the staff likes should have been a priority. It should still be.

"an in-state kid who didn't blow up until late". Okay, Mark Smith. Who else would be in this category that we've snagged of late? Bonus points if hindsight made us glad that we got him.

What's abundantly clear from the offers that underwood has out there is that he's realizes the value of "in state" far more than others. I'm sure it exists with some, and hopefully one can determine it early with a recruit, but time and time again this board seems to be the last to figure out the value (i.e. the lack of it)

 

[ChiefIllini]

Is it that crazy to think Shannon likes Chicago that much? I don't think so. They also have something going on, to be able to land Weems.

This, Whitney, and most likely Liddell all hurt. As did Okoro, et al. I couldn't (perhaps wouldn't is better used here) care less about getting 5/4 star guys, under the condition we win more and make the tournament consistently. Thats a big step, but at the end of the day it doesnt matter if we win with Illinois guys, or NY/Cali/Texas guys, the end goal has been and always will remain the same. I'll give BU the benefit of the doubt till he proves incapable of winning, as I did with Weber and Groce.

I dont think its wrong to start building a case against BU, but he has to get another two full years to prove he can put something together.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

Sorry, I'm unclear as to what your point is here.

Why do you assume that "we're set up to land" kids like Shannon?

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Why do you assume that "we're set up to land" kids like Shannon?

Well, there's the MIF thing and then there's the in-state thing. We have more access to local high school basketball than most other programs (though not DePaul in fairness). Michael O'Brien at the Sun Times has been hyping Shannon for a year based on his performances in the CPL. And obviously Underwood has spoken very reverently about Illinois HS ball.

You add that all up and say "what would an Illinois recruit look like?" and Shannon is about as close as you'll get. No one is better positioned than us to take advantage of his somewhat unusual profile.

It's not the end of the world when you lose any given kid of course, but if we're not landing a guy like that, who are we landing? You're gonna have to be quite the miracle worker to build sustainable success with late-Spring dumpster diving.

 

[Calvin]

TIFWIW but on reddit and other boards, some people are hearing that BU wasn't willing to "try harder"

Not gonna wade into that one but I would say this: If there are back room connections, I would hope that would be done by boosters, not the coach. Still a risk of rules violation, but way better than the !#@$ storm that broke last season with the feds making a name for themselves.

Regarding our misses, those are definitely a concern. But for some perspective, consider that 8 teams in the BIG are listed on 247 as having someone committed for this class. It's still early.

Lotta concerns at this point about recruiting and retention. We could use some good news.

 

[Serious Late]

Why do you assume that "we're set up to land" kids like Shannon?

It takes a super negative viewpoint to not see a Shannon type recruitment as one we should land. Regardless our current standing in the world of CBB, that is a tailor-made situation for us to get the guy we wanted. Really unfortunate it didn't happen. We are reaching a point there isn't much else to say about some of these recruitments. I am surprisingly un-surprised by the result of this one, which may be the worst part of all.

 

[DudeIllini]

Well, there's the MIF thing and then there's the in-state thing. We have more access to local high school basketball than most other programs (though not DePaul in fairness). Michael O'Brien at the Sun Times has been hyping Shannon for a year based on his performances in the CPL. And obviously Underwood has spoken very reverently about Illinois HS ball.

You add that all up and say "what would an Illinois recruit look like?" and Shannon is about as close as you'll get. No one is better positioned than us to take advantage of his somewhat unusual profile.

It's not the end of the world when you lose any given kid of course, but if we're not landing a guy like that, who are we landing? You're gonna have to be quite the miracle worker to build sustainable success with late-Spring dumpster diving.

You can’t complain about in-state when the school he picked was in-neighborhood.

 

[Spoon House]

My hot take is that we aren't going to get these "should get" 4-stars in our back yard until we start to contend in the B1G on a regular basis and, you know, have a postseason.

Fortunately, our incoming class and Frazier/Williams will move the needle in the right direction.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

Well, there's the MIF thing and then there's the in-state thing. We have more access to local high school basketball than most other programs (though not DePaul in fairness). Michael O'Brien at the Sun Times has been hyping Shannon for a year based on his performances in the CPL. And obviously Underwood has spoken very reverently about Illinois HS ball.

You add that all up and say "what would an Illinois recruit look like?" and Shannon is about as close as you'll get. No one is better positioned than us to take advantage of his somewhat unusual profile.

It's not the end of the world when you lose any given kid of course, but if we're not landing a guy like that, who are we landing? You're gonna have to be quite the miracle worker to build sustainable success with late-Spring dumpster diving.

I guess i just believe that thinking is no longer operative. I think it's very clear that geography is much less important than in the past.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

It takes a super negative viewpoint to not see a Shannon type recruitment as one we should land. Regardless our current standing in the world of CBB, that is a tailor-made situation for us to get the guy we wanted. Really unfortunate it didn't happen. We are reaching a point there isn't much else to say about some of these recruitments. I am surprisingly un-surprised by the result of this one, which may be the worst part of all.

It's not negative. It's realistic. We lost goodwin. Okoro. Bates diop.

I'm guessing this diminishing geographic edge plays out more across the country but I don't know that for sure.

 

[PlayAZ]

For all the naysayers and half glass empty fans about recruiting, let me add this as hopefully a "we aren't as bad off as we think" drink of choice.

We have been able to get this year 2 - 4**** Position of need players ranked in the Top 50 and the Top 125 (Ayo-Jones), at positions of want/need. We have also been able to get 2 - 3*** players that are I believe drastically under ranked at positions of need (Griffin-Kane), Kane which is of serious need. 1 experienced guard with international experience help (mold young players) from 6 different states/cultures together, 1 unknown in Giorgi, and 1 athletic late get in Higgs.

I would say based on where our beloved ILLINI have been in the last 10 years or so, this class ranked overall by most in the Top 25 is a great step forward. Losing Whitney and Shannon sting sure, but if the above is an indication of where we are, win out or lose out on recruits, we are pretty damn okay until we can start winning and get even better players. I am not so sure this group will not go down as one of our better overall class' when all is said and over though.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I guess i just believe that thinking is no longer operative. I think it's very clear that geography is much less important than in the past.

Bit of a strange argument to be making when a kid from Lincoln Park High School chooses DePaul over us.

I'm all for taking a more national vantage point in recruiting, but there are resource allocation questions that go along with that, and in any event, the sheer man-hours issue means that we ought to be having better, earlier, more thorough evaluations of players close to us rather than far from us.

That's more a thing in football where State U ought to be finding a kid or two locally who others just don't have the out-of-state scouting resources to zoom in on (think a Jeff Allen or a Malik Turner), but certainly there is truth to that in basketball as well and Shannon was that kind of prospect. As were Mark Smith and Calvin Brock, to name a couple others we landed.