Illini Basketball

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#401      
Of course transfers are inevitable, the Jermaine Hamlin types will always transfer. When you're Illinois, you want to be a DESTINATION not a STEPPING STONE.

The problem is entirely with players that ARE and SHOULD BE contributors leaving because they simply don't want to be here anymore. The idea that we should throw our hands up and say 'well it's inevitable' doesn't comport with me. We won a lot of Big Ten games with two first team All-Americans, we aren't going to have that forever. The "cumulative 4-year win total" thing isn't going to be true forever, I hope you are right that 2022-23 is the "depths", but I'm not so sure.

The day I see "Jayden Epps has entered the transfer portal" is the day I stop believing. I know transfers are inevitable and that you have to be ready to adapt and construct new rosters with transfers, that doesn't mean we should be OK with every talented freshman leaving because they don't want to be yelled at. Tom Izzo has earned the right to be screaming in kids' face, he's a legend. Underwood has had a few good seasons. Players don't have to take that stuff, and they're going to keep leaving if that's how it's gonna be.
 
#402      
Of course transfers are inevitable, the Jermaine Hamlin types will always transfer. When you're Illinois, you want to be a DESTINATION not a STEPPING STONE.

The problem is entirely with players that ARE and SHOULD BE contributors leaving because they simply don't want to be here anymore. The idea that we should throw our hands up and say 'well it's inevitable' doesn't comport with me. We won a lot of Big Ten games with two first team All-Americans, we aren't going to have that forever. The "cumulative 4-year win total" thing isn't going to be true forever, I hope you are right that 2022-23 is the "depths", but I'm not so sure.

The day I see "Jayden Epps has entered the transfer portal" is the day I stop believing. I know transfers are inevitable and that you have to be ready to adapt and construct new rosters with transfers, that doesn't mean we should be OK with every talented freshman leaving because they don't want to be yelled at. Tom Izzo has earned the right to be screaming in kids' face, he's a legend. Underwood has had a few good seasons. Players don't have to take that stuff, and they're going to keep leaving if that's how it's gonna be.
Izzo didn't start screaming in kids' faces after he became a legend. Some would argue that he became a legend because he pushed kids hard and they exceeded their expectations. Some kids may be coming here and Michigan St. because they want to be pushed, others will say, I don't have to put up with this.
 
#403      
Izzo didn't start screaming in kids' faces after he became a legend. Some would argue that he became a legend because he pushed kids hard and they exceeded their expectations. Some kids may be coming here and Michigan St. because they want to be pushed, others will say, I don't have to put up with this.
it was a different era, you have to account for generational differences at play. The Bob Knight approach isn't suitable for modern players.
 
#405      
it was a different era, you have to account for generational differences at play. The Bob Knight approach isn't suitable for modern players.
I think most kids whether it was 25-30 years ago or today want to be coached....they want the coach to be tough, fair and respectful....yelling or screaming isn't the issue....basketball is an emotional game and a coach that gets fired up and emotional to make his team play better is doing his job.... being demeaning or disrespectful is the problem....if a coach is yelling or screaming to make a point or light a fire under the team, most kids can take that....but if you're being demeaning or disrespectful towards the players .....not many like that
 
#406      
it was a different era, you have to account for generational differences at play. The Bob Knight approach isn't suitable for modern players.
This is true, but neither Izzo or Underwood are anywhere close to Knight. On the other hand, I would agree that coaches with a little more of a chill approach probably have an edge these days, especially in recruiting, maybe even in response from the players.
 
#407      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
I wasn't happy with the way things played down the stretch this year either...but I plan on coming back
Fx Ill Be Back GIF by Snowfall
6a00d8341c730253ef01b7c71842b5970b.gif


me too bro , me too..................I really really am.................
 
#411      

Big Jack

Decatur
it was a different era, you have to account for generational differences at play. The Bob Knight approach isn't suitable for modern players.
If you are a high school player being recruited by Brad and have no idea that this sort of thing happens here then you did not do your home work and that is on you ... Maybe you should have gone and played for someone else.. Era Schmera.... good coaches are tough then and now... if you are to soft then say you need to step away for personal reasons ala Skyy and move on...
 
#412      
This is true, but neither Izzo or Underwood are anywhere close to Knight. On the other hand, I would agree that coaches with a little more of a chill approach probably have an edge these days, especially in recruiting, maybe even in response from the players.
It seems the “yelling” narrative has taken on a life of it‘s own, without any of us knowing that players think it’s an issue. As far “chill” coaches go, I’ve noticed all coaches are pretty “chill” when things are going their way. It’s a little tougher when it’s all going to hell in a hand basket.
 
#414      
I have been thinking about this post for a while and didn't want to over react in this forum. (i know, right!)
Maybe Coach has to determine 1. what kind of coach he wants to be and 2. what kind of coach motivates
in this day with this type of player. (or maybe does he recruit the kid that best reacts to his motivation and
does his assistants understand who those kids are?)I only mention #1 because his game persona seemed to
change at one point during the year when he softened a bit. I believe that for whatever reason he could not
get the best out of this group. Three stud frosh and two top notch 4th year transfers who never meshed. I
would love to know what the locker room dynamic was. I have heard about Mayer and Skyy, but that was
early in the year, so why was that a point of discussion by Hawkins after the last loss? It can't be just that.
Maybe when we see the number(s) entering the portal we'll get a hint? It is certainly more than a roster
lacking shooting ability, it was definitely a chemistry experiment gone bad.

on to football! Can't believe i'm saying that!
 
#416      
Living in STL and listening to STL sports station (101.1) I heard an interesting interview a couple hours ago.

Jerry Brewer of the Washington Post
“Missouri Coach Dennis Gates Could Transform College Basketball”

Google: Jerry Brewer Washington Post if you’re interested in the take. (Or you can probably hear the interview on 101.1 online) Worthwhile perspective that is timely in light of this boards opposing views re BU. (Too disrespectful to players vs all is fair because tough love is what they need)

Summation of the interview:
He has a very interesting, though not necessarily new, point of view. He believes the next wave of generational coaches will be those that treat players differently than the current group of old school coaches. He believes more and more players will gravitate to schools based on how coaches “connect “ with players, and that even coaches that aren’t getting the one and done caliber players will do better long term because of player buy-in and lack of mass exodus.

These coaches, according to Brewer, get to know their players in a deeper way, give them encouragement while also giving tough love. But more than anything, they figure out how each player needs to be coached and communicated with, and fits his communication style to that persons needs. (Not a new concept in corporate America)

Brewer spoke at length about a transition to coaches, specifically Gates and Jerome Tang of K St were his examples, that are able to control their emotions and, in turn, this connects the coach and player through emotional intelligence and forms a unique bond that plays in todays world. He believes this will be the direction coaching will go versus the in your face, my way or the Highway mentality. Coaches will adapt their communication style to the players individual needs as opposed to the coach making players adapt to how the coach wants to communicate with them. Brewer believes this style will tap into the most potential from players, teams, etc. It is what makes players buy into offensive sets and execute the plan, they adopt the culture seamlessly, and it builds trust and a bond that is stronger than normal, and the results on the court will evident.

He says it’s why Dennis Gates turned Cleveland State so quickly, and why Mizzou is on the trajectory they are on in year one of a train wreck. Gates has created a bond that goes beyond I’m the coach and you’ll do what I say. He’s taken mid level talent and adopted a communication style and bond with players that is so much stronger than the typical player/coach relationship.

Hey, it’s not for everyone….but it was an interesting interview at an opportune time to get my interest.
I admittedly agree with much of what Brewer talked about. As an anecdote I will provide my opinion:

Like it or not, the world that has changed and continues to change and evolve at a rapid rate. More than ever, it seems all we hear and read anymore is to be inclusive of other views and perspectives. To treat one another, regardless of differences pertaining to faith, race, gender, sexual orientation, neuro-typical vs neuro-diverse minds, etc, with respect and acceptance. The momentum of the inclusion/diversity movement cannot be stopped. (Nor should it be)

To this end, those who believe we shouldn’t want kids here who can’t accept tough love or disrespectful, in your face screaming and mother-effing from BU simply are missing the point, in my opinion. All people should be treated with respect. Tough love is great, but it is a subjective opinion regarding what’s too much. That, my friends, varies from person to person.

One example: It’s been fairly apparent all season that Jayden Epps is neither too high, nor too low, as a person and as a basketball player. (I believe we can agree on that) We’ve all seen his body language when BU is 3 inches from his face and screaming obscenities at him. Seriously, for a kid who is very even keeled - does anyone think that style of coaching will be a motivating factor to him? I don’t believe it would be. Now we are worrying JE may be looking for another landing spot. The kid is tough as nails and very talented. I hope JE stays the course, though I cannot blame him should he leave because the BU communication style is not what he’s looking for. Would it not be more beneficial for BU to amend his approach as needed? It’s potentially archaic to believe that players need to be screamed at and humiliated on national tv in order to make a point. Perhaps for some….but shouldn’t it be what communication style is most effective for that particular player?

For me, what Brewer says makes a lot of sense. Common sense to be honest. No, it isn’t a be all end all….but I bet we see this evolution occurring at a much more rapid pace in the next number of years and the data (wins, losses, etc) will support the theory.

Long post, I know. Hopefully someone will enjoy reading Brewer’ take as I found the interview quite engaging and interesting.
Either way….much love to Illini nation regardless where you stand on this topic.

I L L . . . .
 
#417      
I wonder about J Epps, Ty Rodgers and Melendez entering the portal. Ty could be the most important
keep. We will get an upper class point guard in the portal but its hard to replace heart! I hope Dain
understands that Illinois is a great place for his development. He had a very good season for little or
no experience coming in. I'm learning to say just Dain or just Dainja. Something broadcasters just cant
do.
 
#421      
Lieb Nation would like a word
From everything I have heard, Lieb is a student who really values a UofI degree. He is fortunate enough to be able to pay for college (~175k) by working part time as basketball player. His motivations are very different from the players who believe their primary income post college will be playing basketball professionally.

I do expect that most players who believe pro basketball is their calling will transfer if they are not getting significant minutes by the end of their Soph year.
 
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