The key word in this whole thing is "he" -- as in the guy who bought the tickets. If "he" is Harbaugh, then you have a case. If "he" is Stalions, then you probably don't.
Harbaugh sideways with NCAA
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The key word in this whole thing is "he" -- as in the guy who bought the tickets. If "he" is Harbaugh, then you have a case. If "he" is Stalions, then you probably don't.
TentakilRex
- Land O Insects between Quincy-Macomb-Jacksonville
I'm not saying this will be a killing curse for the Michigan program, and chances are, Harbaugh can cast protego to defend himself from any serious harm.
The fact that this guy is on the sidelines next to coordinator level staff, who directly report to Harbaugh means there are as at the very least some collusion at the personnel tier just below the coach.
Maybe you know who didn't know who Stalions truly was, but he is in charge of the team and the NCAA just made changes to ensure that the head coach is culpable in what happens for the entire team.
50/50 he sees any punishment at all. As a 49ersnfan, I loved Harbaugh. Excellent coach, weird dude.
The rules with the NCAA making the coach (and therefor the program) responsible for regardless of their knowledge is what should kill Michigan in this case. I can't say I trust either the NCAA or Big 10 to make that happen, at least to the extent that is deserved for cheating to this level. Regardless of how much the Michigan program is punished, no matter how much or how little, Harbaugh will get away without any repercussions most likely by just leaving for the NFL. The CFB world will still hold it over his head, but that doesn't matter if he's back in the NFL.
NFL likely won't be safe harbor for Michigan HC Jim Harbaugh from potential NCAA discipline
NFL Network Insiders Ian Rapoport and Tom Pelissero report that Michigan HC Jim Harbaugh likely would not be able to avoid any potential NCAA suspension
www.nfl.com
I agree they should be punished this year. If u have evidence they scouted opponents this year call those game a forfeit. That way they have loses
If you wait to punish then they don’t really get punish if I go back and vacate wins
But I am not holding my breath
TentakilRex
- Land O Insects between Quincy-Macomb-Jacksonville
Worst part Peretti worked for....Rob Manfred.
A very rational approach. Forfeit each game in which there are photos of anyone shooting video in a seat purchased by Stalings. Nobody could find that objectionable. Then have Stalings and whoever he reports to banned.
I don’t think it can be overstated how much of a competitive advantage it is to know your opponents signals- the fact that Michigan was 22-1 in Big Ten play in the three years since Stalions has been buying tickets to opponents games and they were 16-8 in the 3 years prior without recruiting getting better, in fact, getting a bit worse is a compelling fact
Now will come all the clips of film where it’s 3rd and ten and the DE’s don’t rush upfield, instead anticipate a screen etc that will be pretty clear. Just simple things like calling off a blitz if it’s a screen, stunting up the middle of it’s a run between the tackles etc is huge. Knowing the defensive signals on when a blitz is coming is also huge
It’s basically playing techmo bowl while knowing what play your opponent is calling - which anyone old enough to remember that game would know you would dominate in that scenario
Now will come all the clips of film where it’s 3rd and ten and the DE’s don’t rush upfield, instead anticipate a screen etc that will be pretty clear. Just simple things like calling off a blitz if it’s a screen, stunting up the middle of it’s a run between the tackles etc is huge. Knowing the defensive signals on when a blitz is coming is also huge
It’s basically playing techmo bowl while knowing what play your opponent is calling - which anyone old enough to remember that game would know you would dominate in that scenario
KBLEE
- Montgomery, IL
Unless your opponent was playing with Bo Jackson.
So, basically a bunch of guys with a direct, professional interest in tearing Michigan down at the first opportunity support taking advantage of an opportunity to tear Michigan down.
And in other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
Seems more like a bunch of guys who were victims of cheating are now pressing for redress. @HensonHall71 provides compelling evidence of the edge they gained, comparing the three years before Stallings to the three years assisted by Stalings’ dirty work. Just vacate any games with evidence of prohibited scouting, an objective approach. Who could object to that?
It’s not like Michigan will claim they didn’t know they were cheating, some sort of “ignorance of the rules” defense. It was deliberate and methodical, so punishment should be pretty severe.
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Seems more like a bunch of guys who were victims of cheating are now pressing for redress.
Yes, which they bravely accused Harbaugh of anonymously on a phone call while Harbaugh himself was absent.
If and when they are ready to come out and make their case in public, with Harbaugh getting a fair chance to respond, then we should take this seriously. Until then it's just a bunch of whiners whining.
It’s not like Michigan will claim they didn’t know they were cheating, some sort of “ignorance of the rules” defense.
More like "ignorance of the facts", especially what Stalions was doing. Which is entirely possible. This whole thing started with some PIs hacking Michigan's computer system. But we have yet to see the email where Harbaugh calls for Stalions to proceed with taping opponents, or Stalions telling Harbaugh just how he figured out opponents' signals. Until that detail emerges I don't think we should assume Harbaugh knew all that much.
Now, much has been made of the coaches' responsibility for his subordinates. But that has to be limited to things that are halfway foreseeable. Since this is the first high-profile case in ages where a football program has been accused of off-campus scouting (I honestly can't think of any others -- can anyone else?) it's entirely understandable that this would not rank high in terms of internal policing and discipline.
I'm hearing all sorts of conflicting reports about just how much of an advantage Michigan got from figuring out their opponents' signals, and just how valuable the additional off-campus scouting was to decoding them. It's possible that it really was the big deal it's been made out to be. But until these coaches come out and say the what, when, and how, on the record, with names and dates and with Michigan getting a fair chance to debunk, I think we should treat this as a whole lot of petty back-biting.
When you have e Coach Harbaugh standing on sideline and 10 assistants next to him. Jumping up and down hand signaling to the Michigan Defense what play is coming. It is egregious in every competitive manner! It does matter, and is not keeping with Big10 policy. Forfeit every game dating back and current that can be shown to be Tainted.
This will not happen though. Michigan brings in to much money for the league. Pathetic
Ummm did anyone see the new leaked footage of the disabled low level assistant buying alcohol to meet up with a 13 year old girl? What the **** is going on in Ann Arbor???
No, the ‘Rules’ (?) are not there just for show.
‘The Rules’ (?) are a great way to penalize programs who are getting too close to challenging College Sports Royalty. You know, challenging the 'Royalty' (?) like the Kansas’ and Carolinas’ of the roundball world and the Michigans’ and Penn States’ of the football world.
Yes, programs that get a bit too uppity and too challenging for Them!... like the Illini, perhaps over the years?
And here's another clear sign of hysteria -- overreliance on exaggeration. It wasn't ten guys on the sideline. It was one. Feller by the name of Connor Stalions. Nobody is even speculating about a second, let alone a third through a tenth.
Please stick to the facts.
In the grand scheme of things, that is significantly worse than having guys going to opponents' football games.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
I'm with you. To add to this, here's how the homers in AA see it as of yesterday. The final point is a hoot; it's is a swipe at us and the other "Bottom 12", and (incidentally) applied to Michigan football about a hot minute ago until Golden Jim H suddenly found his college football coaching groove (with or without Little Blue artificial enhancement):
WTKA Roundtable 11/2/2023: Poor Jim McElwain | mgoblog
Things Discussed: Rundown of the ton of false reporting. NCAA is in town: False. WSJ says offer rescinded: False. Thamel says all the B10 coaches are repeating Ryan Day's talking points: False. It's one thing to sensationalize—ESPN sensationalizes all the time—but they're getting provable facts...
WTKA Roundtable 11/2/2023: Poor Jim McElwain
November 2nd, 2023
- Maybe you guys need to get good; we're a TV product and you guys are unwatchable. This conference is Michigan and Ohio State and the four teams we're importing because the rest of you are unwatchable.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
The fact that someone who is obviously a Michigan fan is on an Illinois board defending these allegations is probably the biggest indicator that Michigan fans are obviously worried about this.
It's fitting that you use a dark wizard from Slytherin house as your moniker, since your guy Jim is willing to use any means necessary to get ahead.
It's fitting that you use a dark wizard from Slytherin house as your moniker, since your guy Jim is willing to use any means necessary to get ahead.
TentakilRex
- Land O Insects between Quincy-Macomb-Jacksonville
Wonder what a lowly $55k per year analyst could have to say during a game to interest the head coach and his coordinators?
Connect the dots. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, . . . 
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