Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

[MDchicago]

And regarding Poe's Law statement above, has any Big Ten head coach made a direct move to another Big Ten school head coaching job? By direct, I mean there were no years off (e.g. either coaching at another non-B1G school or maybe being an announcer for a year or two or more) and then going to another B1G school.

Illinois AD George Huff poached Ralph Jones directly from Purdue (with ~50% pay increase) in the coaching carousel of 1912. Jones had won two national championships at Wabash before going to Purdue, and won two Big 10 championships (including an undefeated season in which he finished #2 in the nation) in three seasons at Purdue before joining the Illini.

At Illinois for 8 seasons, Jones won a third national college basketball championship (in 1915, going undefeated in the process), won two Big 10 championships, and finished in the Top 25 of the Premo-Porretta poll five times (3x in top 5).

• Coached 17 seasons of D1 basketball in total (at Butler, Wabash, Purdue and Illinois).
• Has one of the highest D1 winning percentages ever for a college basketball coach (79.2%; only six coaches with more than 150 wins have a better D1 winning % in college basketball history). For reference, coaches like K, Roy, Dean and Self have winning percentages less than 78%.
• Four undefeated seasons as a head coach, a feat matched only by John Wooden.
• Won three college basketball national championships (two at Wabash and one at Illinois) (Premo-Porretta Power Poll). Arguably could have won a fourth, going undefeated in 1912 at Purdue and finishing 2nd (behind Helms champion Wisconsin, who did not play Purdue that year).
• Won four Big 10 championships (two at Purdue and two at Illinois).

Among others, mentored two coaches, Piggy Lambert (11 Big 10 titles in 29 seasons at Purdue) and Everett Case (winningest basketball coach in NC State history) currently in the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame, and a future long-time Big 10 Commissioner and USOC President (Tug Wilson).

Coached at HS level in Indiana earlier in his career, and is considered the father of Indiana High School basketball. Was one of the first HS coaches in the state who won three state championships (mythical, pre-state tournament), and is a member of the Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame.

Good hire.

 

[Boskydell]

Agreed. I think after Stubbs, they really want someone with HC experience. But Anderson is a far better candidate than Stubbs ever was.

Can't imagine they would hire another assistant for HC. To me, the question is whether TA would make a lateral move back to Depaul as head AC, and HC in waiting.

 

[illiniswish09]

Insiders-

What names are you hearing to take over at Ohio State?

 

[LadyLoyalty]

He should avoid the Bulls like the plague. That franchise is a mess from top to bottom.

It is beyond me why the Bulls majority ownership continues to allow Reinsdorf to hold the management reins. Despite popular belief, Reinsdorf does not own the bulls, he only has a minority stake.

 

[WhiteHorseWings]

Oh my god that would be hilarious please let that happen

In zero worlds would this be good for us

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

It is beyond me why the Bulls majority ownership continues to allow Reinsdorf to hold the management reins. Despite popular belief, Reinsdorf does not own the bulls, he only has a minority stake.

because for most of the investors , Reinsdorf has helped make them millions of dollars .

it’s almost always about the money

 

[ChiefGritty]

In zero worlds would this be good for us

I promise you Juwan Howard would be a disaster at DePaul.

He eroded the winning culture at Michigan through his coaching inexperience and unprofessionalism within a few short years, DePaul is already a toxic waste site for exactly those reasons, they have no fans or money, the idea that if that program just wishes upon the Chicago recruiting star hard enough they will turn into Kentucky is exactly the sort of numbskulled thinking that was an anvil around our neck for so many years.

 

[WhiteHorseWings]

Sure he would underachieve but with far better recruits than they get today, probably including ones out of the CPL in which we would be interested that don’t consider DePaul today.

 

[Ga65]

Can't imagine they would hire another assistant for HC. To me, the question is whether TA would make a lateral move back to Depaul as head AC, and HC in waiting.

No money for recruits, tough conference, no current talent. Why is this a desirable job? Seems a tough place to be successful.

 

[jamarvelous31]

No money for recruits, tough conference, no current talent. Why is this a desirable job? Seems a tough place to be successful.

Until it gets turned around it's either a stepping stone shot or a golden parachute. I'd be shocked if they get anything but young & hungry or old & busted for the role.

 

[ChiefGritty]

far better recruits than they get today, probably including ones out of the CPL

Why?

Why would Juwan Howard, a coach who clearly lacks program-running ability and has shredded his credibility at Michigan, would be fired in this hypothetical, and would be saddled with a program no one cares about with no NIL resources and a toxic culture of failure, suddenly do way better at recruiting than they have done with a rotating cast of head coaches and assistants always targeting that same goal?

It's Les Miles to Kansas logic. Worse really, Les Miles was at one point very good at running a program.

But I like the analogy because everyone thinks DePaul needs Les Miles, but like Kansas what they actually need is Lance Leipold. Someone who doesn't see their job as magically transforming the resources available but instead as creating a culture of better performance with the resources they have.

 

[RockfordIllini]

With the current diaspora of elite HS talent across a small number of prep schools/basketball factories across the country, I’m not sure the CPL is quite the hotbed of talent it was maybe 10-15 years ago. So I don’t know that being in Chicago has much of a built in advantage over other programs that are recruiting the same talent base.

There may be some more kids that would want to return home if DePaul was a more attractive destination. But those kids aren’t going to be local during their peak recruiting years.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

With the current diaspora of elite HS talent across a small number of prep schools/basketball factories across the country, I’m not sure the CPL is quite the hotbed of talent it was maybe 10-15 years ago. So I don’t know that being in Chicago has much of a built in advantage over other programs that are recruiting the same talent base.

There may be some more kids that would want to return home if DePaul was a more attractive destination. But those kids aren’t going to be local during their peak recruiting years.

agree 100%. everything has changed really with elite talent playing more than 2-3 years (if that) in the CPL these days

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Why?

Why would Juwan Howard, a coach who clearly lacks program-running ability and has shredded his credibility at Michigan, would be fired in this hypothetical, and would be saddled with a program no one cares about with no NIL resources and a toxic culture of failure, suddenly do way better at recruiting than they have done with a rotating cast of head coaches and assistants always targeting that same goal?

It's Les Miles to Kansas logic. Worse really, Les Miles was at one point very good at running a program.

But I like the analogy because everyone thinks DePaul needs Les Miles, but like Kansas what they actually need is Lance Leipold. Someone who doesn't see their job as magically transforming the resources available but instead as creating a culture of better performance with the resources they have.

I’d guess it all comes down to fundraising. Good or bad, would Howard create more interest and bring in more money? Last year they announced plans for a new on campus basketball practice facility and a $60 million campaign to fund that (might be other stuff as part of that campaign too). Any idea how that campaign is doing? I don’t, but you don’t want a campaign to lose momentum and stagnate. If Howard can create more interest in the program and jump start/ keep fundraising going and maybe increase attendance some through corporate sales, it might make sense. Not saying it is what I’d do from a strictly basketball perspective, but may go beyond that.

 

[Iloveorangekoolaid]

I’d guess it all comes down to fundraising. Good or bad, would Howard create more interest and bring in more money? Last year they announced plans for a new on campus basketball practice facility and a $60 million campaign to fund that (might be other stuff as part of that campaign too). Any idea how that campaign is doing? I don’t, but you don’t want a campaign to lose momentum and stagnate. If Howard can create more interest in the program and jump start/ keep fundraising going and maybe increase attendance some through corporate sales, it might make sense. Not saying it is what I’d do from a strictly basketball perspective, but may go beyond that.

What DePaul can’t wrap their head around for some reason is winning>big name. You start winning and the money will come in. Juwan would probably be doing similar to how Georgetown is doing this year IMHO. If Juwan was coming right from the NBA, it would definitely have created more immediate interest. But after this year, alumni and others would be VERY disappointed.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I’d guess it all comes down to fundraising. Good or bad, would Howard create more interest and bring in more money? Last year they announced plans for a new on campus basketball practice facility and a $60 million campaign to fund that (might be other stuff as part of that campaign too). Any idea how that campaign is doing? I don’t, but you don’t want a campaign to lose momentum and stagnate. If Howard can create more interest in the program and jump start/ keep fundraising going and maybe increase attendance some through corporate sales, it might make sense. Not saying it is what I’d do from a strictly basketball perspective, but may go beyond that.

Leaving basketball aside I'm not sure why you'd look at Howard and say "that's a good and positive public face for our program".

If this is the end for Howard at Michigan, to me the conclusion is as simple as "this guy wasn't cut out to be a major college basketball head coach"

 

[ChiefGritty]

I've got an idea for DePaul.

You know who has had a lot of consistent mid-major success, has a ton of recruiting experience in the Chicagoland area, and is used to recruiting and winning with less athletics resources than many others at a school that's still clinging to the memory of a musty old glorious past?

Mitch Henderson at Princeton.

 

[BashCtIllini]

I've got an idea for DePaul.

You know who has had a lot of consistent mid-major success, has a ton of recruiting experience in the Chicagoland area, and is used to recruiting and winning with less athletics resources than many others at a school that's still clinging to the memory of a musty old glorious past?

Mitch Henderson at Princeton.

why in the world would Henderson accept that job?

 

[ChiefGritty]

why in the world would Henderson accept that job?

Because he makes peanuts and he's kinda done everything there is to do in the Ivy League and it's a challenge. Bigger schools would also probably shy away from the Princeton Offense much like big football schools have done with Triple Option coaches.

His coaching mentor was Bill Carmody and he left a cushy situation at Princeton for Northwestern who at the time were an even more hopeless situation than DePaul if that's possible.

Doesn't seem insanely unrealistic that Henderson might be intrigued.

By the way, since we were discussing overrated goobers at Michigan, will it surprise you to hear that Tommy Amaker is a relentless disappointment at Harvard?

 

[WeWillWhen]

Why would Juwan Howard, a coach who clearly lacks program-running ability and has shredded his credibility at Michigan, would be fired in this hypothetical, and would be saddled with a program no one cares about with no NIL resources and a toxic culture of failure, suddenly do way better at recruiting than they have done with a rotating cast of head coaches and assistants always targeting that same goal?

It's Les Miles to Kansas logic. Worse really, Les Miles was at one point very good at running a program.

Coach Nick Irvin would win the Big East at Depaul.

 

[LoveIlliniHoops]

Coach Nick Irvin would win the Big East at Depaul.

Just you mentioning it, they’ll probably win their next game by 30.

 

[BashCtIllini]

Because he makes peanuts and he's kinda done everything there is to do in the Ivy League and it's a challenge. Bigger schools would also probably shy away from the Princeton Offense much like big football schools have done with Triple Option coaches.

His coaching mentor was Bill Carmody and he left a cushy situation at Princeton for Northwestern who at the time were an even more hopeless situation than DePaul if that's possible.

Doesn't seem insanely unrealistic that Henderson might be intrigued.

By the way, since we were discussing overrated goobers at Michigan, will it surprise you to hear that Tommy Amaker is a relentless disappointment at Harvard?

He's coaching at his alma mater. He surely had offers last year, likely the year before as well. No way in the world would I go commit career suicide and go to a school that can't compete. DePaul does not belong in the Big East. They've won 25 conference games in the last 7 years combined.

If I'm Henderson, I'm taking a much much better job than DePaul. I'm sure he's got his eyes on Chris Collins. If Collins moves on, Henderson is the natural successor in Evanston.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Another free idea as long as we're fixing hapless Chicago basketball programs:

The four D1 schools in the city (DePaul, Loyola, UIC, Chicago State) should play an annual "City Series" during the non-conference season in which each team plays each other team. You'd get one game at home, one on the road, and then on some weekend day in December all four would play a doubleheader at the United Center for the third game.

 

[whatahack]

Would the Rev be a candidate for DePaul

 

[OrangeBlue98]

Going back to Dan Hurley, I have to think him leaving for the NBA would really sound the alarm bells for at least NABC in terms of college coaches getting fed up with the transfer portal. Hurley should be the kind of guy who would stay 20 years at UConn. He should have the kind of tenure that Bill Self has had at Kansas. If he would leave now, that would be a pretty telltale sign that the idea of constantly recruiting to retain and bring in new talent is too much.