Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#151      

OrangeBlue98

Des Moines, IA
Really? Has Underwood resurrected it that much? Hope so but it’s hard not to feel this is inflated when Weber and Groce were the best we could do and we seemed to be passed on by target candidates for two cycles.
To be completely fair, I will forever think that Ron Guenther felt so burned by Bill Self leaving that the primary job criterion he had for the head coach was "he won't leave if he's successful." I think that was a bigger factor than many of us wanted to believe.

For Groce, the biggest issue was no one wanted to work for Mike Thomas (and I heard that through a number of sources that I would consider very trustworthy when Thomas kept striking out on coaches). Josh Whitman is certainly NOT Mike Thomas.
 
#152      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
can someone refresh my memory of how & why we ended up with Thomas as AD ?
 
#153      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
can someone refresh my memory of how & why we ended up with Thomas as AD ?
Guenther was asked to stay longer despite intending to retire due to the chaos in the upper administration after the Clout List scandal, that brought in Mike Hogan as UI President who was by all accounts a shoot first and ask questions later wrecking ball determined to "modernize" the operations of the UI System, pushing through both good ideas and bad ones with no care for internal stakeholders and politics, which anyone who knows about Universities can tell you is going to trigger huge revolts, as it did here.

Thomas was Hogan's handpicked guy, and he came to the DIA in the same spirit, out with the old, in with the new, don't care to hear opinions, out of the way.

The DIA Thomas inherited was in desperate need of radical change, and frankly in the end Josh Whitman has benefitted from a lot of unpopular modernization Thomas did that Whitman got to come in with clean hands over.

But anyway, Hogan basically got himself fired within about two years, leading to another round of upper administrative chaos, which eventually led to the endless and seemingly aimless process (including "not ideal") which led to a happy ending with Whitman.

Killeen-Jones-Whitman is the most stable leadership situation we've had, possibly ever? Hard times for the higher ed industry and the college sports industry, UI included, but we have smart capable people at the helm.
 
#154      
If I was gonna rank the tiers ... And I'll throw in the pac 12 schools ... Think Ohio State is right in between Tier 3 and Tier 4 ... Same with Rutgers ...

Tier 1: UCLA, Michigan State, Illinois

Tier 2: Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, Oregon

Tier 3: Iowa, USC, Rutgers, Washington, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State

Tier 4: Nebraska, Minnesota

Tier 5: Penn State, Northwestern
A lot of recency bias here....I remember a few years back reading a similar analysis that had UI in the equivalent of tier 3. Over the long haul, IU, UM and OSU are too low here and MSU is probably too high (post Izzo anyway)
 
#155      
Guenther was asked to stay longer despite intending to retire due to the chaos in the upper administration after the Clout List scandal, that brought in Mike Hogan as UI President who was by all accounts a shoot first and ask questions later wrecking ball determined to "modernize" the operations of the UI System, pushing through both good ideas and bad ones with no care for internal stakeholders and politics, which anyone who knows about Universities can tell you is going to trigger huge revolts, as it did here.

Thomas was Hogan's handpicked guy, and he came to the DIA in the same spirit, out with the old, in with the new, don't care to hear opinions, out of the way.

The DIA Thomas inherited was in desperate need of radical change, and frankly in the end Josh Whitman has benefitted from a lot of unpopular modernization Thomas did that Whitman got to come in with clean hands over.

But anyway, Hogan basically got himself fired within about two years, leading to another round of upper administrative chaos, which eventually led to the endless and seemingly aimless process (including "not ideal") which led to a happy ending with Whitman.

Killeen-Jones-Whitman is the most stable leadership situation we've had, possibly ever? Hard times for the higher ed industry and the college sports industry, UI included, but we have smart capable people at the helm.
The decade prior to that trio coming together was incredibly shakey top to bottom in the ways you described. not just limited to the top end of the university's admin. I've joked to friends that Barry Houser is the only public-facing hiring that was made by the university in that period, and like most good jokes there's a lot of truth to it.
 
#157      
I've heard that as well, but isn't part of the issue with Moser that he doesn't like the big conference, public school environment?

I agree about Columbus, and if Moser's only big issue at OU is he hates living outside of the Midwest then OSU would be good. But I thought he wanted to get back to a smaller, private school closer to what Loyola is like. For example, if McDermott would leave Creighton I could easily see Moser taking the Creighton job if Omaha is "Midwest enough" for him.
You may be right here- I honestly don't know the answer to that. But assume there are many on this board who do.
 
#158      

DeonThomas

South Carolina
If I was gonna rank the tiers ... And I'll throw in the pac 12 schools ... Think Ohio State is right in between Tier 3 and Tier 4 ... Same with Rutgers ...

Tier 1: UCLA, Michigan State, Illinois

Tier 2: Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, Oregon

Tier 3: Iowa, USC, Rutgers, Washington, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State

Tier 4: Nebraska, Minnesota

Tier 5: Penn State, Northwestern
1708828746936.jpeg


This should help with the all-time program rankings --- up until 15 years ago. And I'm not sure much has changed since then except for UConn's ascension. And btw, all-time truly means "all-time."
 
#160      

redwingillini11

White and Sixth
North Aurora
View attachment 31446

This should help with the all-time program rankings --- up until 15 years ago. And I'm not sure much has changed since then except for UConn's ascension. And btw, all-time truly means "all-time."
I’m sorry, even in 2009 I can’t imagine we had a case to be ahead of Duke. It’s just not even close. Back then they had 3 more titles, 5 more runners up, and 8 more final fours than us. Someone was on something when they made this list.
 
#162      
not that it could never be done again in this age , but there is a “silent gentlemen's agreement” in the B1G , since the early 1960’s, to not directly poach coaches from revenue sports from fellow members .

it’s a good agreement to have . We aren’t the SEC
The B1G had a “gentlemen’s agreement” with the PAC 12 and ACC recently. How did THAT turn out?
 
#163      
Who besides Dave Kaplan and people in the state of Indiana actually think the Hoosiers are still a blue blood.
Indiana can bring in big named coaches(Archie Miller was considered a rising younger head coach and Mike Woodson was a shot in the opposite direction as a former NBA coach and alum). Indiana is still considered a blue blood program and will likely get a big named head coach again if they choose to go in another direction. Just like Louisville can generate a bigger name, so can Indiana
 
#164      
Indiana can bring in big named coaches(Archie Miller was considered a rising younger head coach and Mike Woodson was a shot in the opposite direction as a former NBA coach and alum). Indiana is still considered a blue blood program and will likely get a big named head coach again if they choose to go in another direction. Just like Louisville can generate a bigger name, so can Indiana
I literally know no one outside the state of Indiana or an alumni that considers them a blue blood program.
 
#165      
Indiana can bring in big named coaches(Archie Miller was considered a rising younger head coach and Mike Woodson was a shot in the opposite direction as a former NBA coach and alum). Indiana is still considered a blue blood program and will likely get a big named head coach again if they choose to go in another direction. Just like Louisville can generate a bigger name, so can Indiana
a blue blood doesn't bring in the coach from Dayton. They bring in the coach from a top 10 team, and that coach is thrilled to leave to go to a blue blood.
 
#166      

DeonThomas

South Carolina
Who besides Dave Kaplan and people in the state of Indiana actually think the Hoosiers are still a blue blood.
- 5 Natty's
- 1,926 wins; 1,116 losses (.633)
- 6th in all-time NCAA appearances
- 7th in all-time NCAA victories
- 6th all-time in weeks ranked #1 in the AP poll

Yeah, unless unduly influenced by the "recency effect", I'd still call Indiana a blue blood --- assuming you can go 6 deep in your blue blood count. Looking back over the entirety of 123 seasons, that's a lot of basketball success!

The top 4 are indisputable, of course --- KY, UCLA, KANSAS and UNC. 40+ years of Coach K probably has pulled Duke into BlueBlood-ism. Guess they're the new #5 all-time.

Bottom-line, the Hoosiers should be able to hire nearly anyone they want.
 
#169      
- 5 Natty's
- 1,926 wins; 1,116 losses (.633)
- 6th in all-time NCAA appearances
- 7th in all-time NCAA victories
- 6th all-time in weeks ranked #1 in the AP poll

Yeah, unless unduly influenced by the "recency effect", I'd still call Indiana a blue blood --- assuming you can go 6 deep in your blue blood count. Looking back over the entirety of 123 seasons, that's a lot of basketball success!

The top 4 are indisputable, of course --- KY, UCLA, KANSAS and UNC. 40+ years of Coach K probably has pulled Duke into BlueBlood-ism. Guess they're the new #5 all-time.

Bottom-line, the Hoosiers should be able to hire nearly anyone they want.
now look deeper, last national championship 1987. Some of these recruits parents weren't even alive when that happened. If they were, they were still kids. Last Final Four, 2002. Again, recruits today were not alive when that happened.

In these kids that they are recruiting's life, Indiana has made 3 Sweet 16s and won 2 Big Ten championships. That is not something that gets kids excited.

If you look at the history of college basketball, yes Indiana is a blue blood. But, they've not played like a Blue Blood for so long, no one that doesn't look in the record books knows that anymore. And most importantly recruits don't know that anymore.

But these days, it's a money game. History, reputation, facilities, roster matter, but cold hard cash can always be the trump card. So what matters is how much cash does Indiana have?
 
#170      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
UNC, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas are one thing.

UCLA, Indiana and UConn are arguably that thing if you really think national championships are important, but arguably not if you don't.

Nobody else is that thing.

The extent to which being that thing even really matters (as opposed to big fanbases and resources which correlate with the thing), is itself arguable.
 
#171      
- 5 Natty's
- 1,926 wins; 1,116 losses (.633)
- 6th in all-time NCAA appearances
- 7th in all-time NCAA victories
- 6th all-time in weeks ranked #1 in the AP poll

Yeah, unless unduly influenced by the "recency effect", I'd still call Indiana a blue blood --- assuming you can go 6 deep in your blue blood count. Looking back over the entirety of 123 seasons, that's a lot of basketball success!

The top 4 are indisputable, of course --- KY, UCLA, KANSAS and UNC. 40+ years of Coach K probably has pulled Duke into BlueBlood-ism. Guess they're the new #5 all-time.

Bottom-line, the Hoosiers should be able to hire nearly anyone they want.
IUs last natty was before anyone currently attending the university was born.
 
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