The post is literally just BU's tournament success and whether he has or has not underachieved in the tournament
Agree that his regular season success the last few years has been phenomenal.
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
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Agree that his regular season success the last few years has been phenomenal.
Do we evaluate someone's work in progress or the final product? You can do both, to a certain extent so since you need a certain level of regular season success to have any post season success, but ultimately college basketball is judged by March. There's a reason why Izzo was known as Mr. March. When his teams stumbled during the season, it was attributed to working out the kinks in preparation for the post season. Your work during the season is to prepare your team to be in the best position for the post season.
What thread is it posted in?
Kind of disingenuous to pretend the tournament success is posted in a vacuum, and not at all related to the bigger conversation going on around it about whether we'd be better off with a different coach.
It matters (how much is debatable) but its not the only thing taken into account
Reminder that we just made an E8 last season. First one in 20 years.
The issue is rather than hire real assistant coaches with those two new slots, Hamer and Underwood were promoted to fill them.
Then we should take down banners for our Big Ten Championships and BTT championships. Tacky to celebrate practice results.
Relative to the discussion of us being one of the youngest teams this year compared to last, that is only true as it relates to this teams years of eligibility remaining. I think the staff was hoping that having KJ and TI come in with their age and pro experience that they'd be what would make this team play with more maturity. Then add BH, KB, and TW to that and inexperience isn't something you'd think would sink this team. And it hasn't! It's solely the rash of injuries/illnesses that have kept this team from their true potential. In my mind, saying our youth is part of the problem is just making excuses.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
I would also add that donors and the DIA are going to have much higher postseason expectations (I guess fans as well). Really can't have a top 10 paid coach consistently fizzling out in the biggest tournament. What Brad has put together the last few seasons has been quite remarkable (and there are banners to show for it), but the lack of sustained NCAA tournament success, and now, the appearance of possible nepotism, is what is driving some of the change narrative (and rightfully so). The good news is that the team still has a couple of weeks to try to right the ship and possibly win a couple in the tourney.
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Agree 100% on waiting to judge this team until the season is over.
I’m a bit tired of the increasing amount of rudeness being shot across Loyalty the past few weeks. Things have sucked recently but we’ve seen much worse….remember the dystopian wasteland that Illinois basketball was before BU?
I’m grateful that Brad’s raised the standard so high that we can question whether he’s still the right guy for the job. With a few staff changes, building around core guys (MJ, TI please stay), and supplementing from the portal, we will have more consistency next year.
And this year ain’t done. However unlikely, we could surprise some people and make a run. Bring on Duke and LFG!
It's crazy how much a tournament can mask an entire season. People never talk about the fact that Juwan Howard only won 20 games at Michigan once. He made it to the elite 8 and sweet 16 but also did the NIT once and a nothing burger in his last year but the reality is that program was declining post-Beilein even with their B1G championship* and elite 8 appearance.
I think Whitman's job is to assess everything in totality and not over-index for post-season success (which could literally be altered by 1 or 2 extra wins) alongside the regular season success which shouldn't be overly discounted by some tournament underachievements.
I think Whitman's job is to assess everything in totality and not over-index for post-season success (which could literally be altered by 1 or 2 extra wins) alongside the regular season success which shouldn't be overly discounted by some tournament underachievements.
That's on our failure to evaluate transfer talent this past offseason... which would also probably be on Brad. Booth's a complete waste and Ben, Tre, and Kylan are various states of "letdown". So, I guess my point is- it's on Brad that he did not give himself the pieces to survive what's happening today, but what's happening today isn't as much on him from a game-coaching perspective as some are saying.
Um, Howard was let go. So Howard isn't the ideal comp for our coach.
Or look at Dusty May at Michigan
Musselman went 16-17 last year. Calipari is 15-11 right now. So there was 0 downgrade from last year to this year.
Mike Anderson best year was his last season at St Johns where he went 18-15. Pitino year 1 went 20-13 and this year obviously even better.
So point still stands in the NIL era 4 or 5 years isn't needed to build.
I’ve literally stated I’d rather have Beard than Sean but okay …
Also - Josh Whitman is a bigger Sean fan than me …
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Exactly but I just rather say St Johns than anything positive about Michigan.
Dusty can also flat out coach …
I think you bring up a great point …
OA and Chin go to UK … Gentry goes to Gonzaga … Those are elite level programs that wanted our assistants …
Chester went to WVU for reasons that have been discussed on here … He’s a good HM assistant and there’s no doubt about that … Same goes for TA who elected to not work rather than be a part of this program … Antigua was obviously a major addition but not replacing TA was a MAJOR mistake …
Elite level programs can go poach assistants 24/7, 365 … And instead of doing that … We made no adjustments or upgrades …
How many elite level programs are coming after Hamer, Kwa Jones, or Tyler …
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
Well.. I didn’t say he was a rational fan. But that’s not limited to just him or the Xavier crowd, I suppose.
DevILLDawg
- Meredosia, Illinois
Would Will Wade be out of the picture? I mean...THAT NCAA (when he was embattled) is essentially toothless.
Will WITH an over the table warchest would be fascinating.
He seems to be prefer the south but maybe he'd consider a move to the B1G? Only mention because if I was Bama and Oats left for UNC he'd be a top pick for me...
I share a lot of this opinion.
In discussions about our team's "youth," though, I think a more accurate idea is the team's lack of experience playing together.
Kylan, Trey and Ben are experienced D1 guys. Carey, Jake and DGL have less experience, but still, cannot at this point near the end of their second year of D1 basketball be regarded as guys facing the challenge of being "too young." Tomi is not too young either, although the extensive experience of this 21-year old European pro basketball player is not in NCAA Division 1. We have seven experienced guys.
We have 3 young guys, freshman. KJ, Morez and Will are not only young, but vital to the success of the team. These young guys have had ups and downs, very possibly related to their youth (even though their exceptional talent, especially for KJ and Will, has brought a huge amount of productivity to the team). Having one or two freshman starters, even in a key role, and another key role-freshman on the bench is not unusual for highly-ranked teams in this era.
I think the real issue here is not being too young, but the fact that we have 10-man group of guys who were, every single one of them, strangers to one another a mere 10 months ago. The challenge of putting together a cohesive team, with clear roles, familiarity and confidence in one another is a gigantic challenge.
It's not "too young," it's too little experience playing together. The team is not yet well-integrated, as might be well be expected.
Bigtex
- DFW
equally amazing is we are paying for 6 assistants. Don't fully understand the TA situation getting a year very good salary without working.
I think this is a really good take …
Brad has raised the standard and raised the expectations … And I think he’s being held accountable for those raised expectations … No one has ever doubted Brad’s ability to bring in the talent … I honestly was more worried about recruiting than coaching when Brad got here …
I think that has really flipped … I wish Brad would recognize the areas he’s weak in (in game coaching) … And instead of having guys with zero prior experience (Hamer, Tyler, Kwa) … He’d go get some veteran coaches that can run a system offensively and defensively that meshes with what Brad wants from his teams …
Because it seems to me that between Brad, Geoff and O we can get plenty of talent … Maybe add in another recruiting guy if we really need it …
But Brad is more CEO than coach and that’s fine … But if you’re gonna be more CEO than coach, you’ve gotta have guys who can really coach …
Prime examples of this … Chris Beard … He does absolutely nothing with defense … That is 100% on Mark Adams … That entire staff is elite honestly … All 5 of those guys are HM assistants with a TON of experience … Dan Hurley … He has Luke Murray and Kimani Young who handle most all of the offense and defense … Self has KT and Norm Robert’s …
Brad needs to find some guys like that …
Wade would be an option … Think the 5 most realistic candidates before dominoes start falling would be Chris Beard, Sean Miller, Will Wade, Ben McCollum and Dusty May if IU doesn’t hire him …
Again - I don’t think we fire Brad … But Brad leaving wouldn’t shock me … But I think it’s unlikely …
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