Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

#101      
Oracle21
Illiniguy13 said:
I fondly recall posters like Obelix and certain others saying BU didn't have the recruiting chops to succeed here.
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I don’t really see “recruiting” as a thing anymore. I see it as a GM of a pro team. If the owner is willing to spend, it’ll be much easier to land guys you want. If they are not, then you better be good at Moneyball.

I think this staff is good at analytics and identifying what is valuable and putting an appropriate price on it. And they have enough money to land the guys they want. I don’t think it says anything about their recruiting chops tho. I mean BYU’s coach isn’t a great recruiter bc he landed AJ Dybantsa. He simply paid the most.
 
#102      
jamarvelous31
BashCtIllini said:
half this board might

Season 2 Sheldon GIF by The Big Bang Theory
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t.i & tiny tip GIF by VH1
 
#103      
jamarvelous31
Oracle21 said:
I don’t really see “recruiting” as a thing anymore. I see it as a GM of a pro team. If the owner is willing to spend, it’ll be much easier to land guys you want. If they are not, then you better be good at Moneyball.

I think this staff is good at analytics and identifying what is valuable and putting an appropriate price on it. And they have enough money to land the guys they want. I don’t think it says anything about their recruiting chops tho. I mean BYU’s coach isn’t a great recruiter bc he landed AJ Dybantsa. He simply paid the most.
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This argument ignores the existence of Mark Pope
 
#105      
Iamgroot
Oracle21 said:
I don’t really see “recruiting” as a thing anymore. I see it as a GM of a pro team. If the owner is willing to spend, it’ll be much easier to land guys you want. If they are not, then you better be good at Moneyball.

I think this staff is good at analytics and identifying what is valuable and putting an appropriate price on it. And they have enough money to land the guys they want. I don’t think it says anything about their recruiting chops tho. I mean BYU’s coach isn’t a great recruiter bc he landed AJ Dybantsa. He simply paid the most.
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Id agree same with kelsey at Louisville hes done nothing to lure recruits with prior success or development just Louisville alumni are throwing but loads of cash hoping he'll make a breakthrough this season no excuses if he dont succeed id imagine he'd be out the door
 
#106      
artist3
Oracle21 said:
I don’t really see “recruiting” as a thing anymore. I see it as a GM of a pro team. If the owner is willing to spend, it’ll be much easier to land guys you want. If they are not, then you better be good at Moneyball.

I think this staff is good at analytics and identifying what is valuable and putting an appropriate price on it. And they have enough money to land the guys they want. I don’t think it says anything about their recruiting chops tho. I mean BYU’s coach isn’t a great recruiter bc he landed AJ Dybantsa. He simply paid the most.
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It’s not that cut and dry though. Kentucky is throwing money at anyone and everyone but has missed out on so many top targets because Pope appears to be a poor recruiter.
 
#108      
pruman91
Emerson Bigguns said:
Are we really married to the positional size thing, or is it just a differentiating factor, all else being relatively equal? I have a hard time believing we'd pass on a top 20 kid because he isn't tall enough.

If he has entourage or attitude issues, maybe...

I thought we passed on Jeremy Fears because we wanted his brother, and they weren't going to play together due to both wanting to play point. (maybe I'm misremembering...)
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we got Lee recently who is a smaller guard.....lots of possible reasons other than size IMHO...........
 
#109      
EyeoftheIllini
GatorMcKlusky said:
He and Mason Martin are the modern day version of Jim Stack and Kevin Boyle.
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Haven’t thought of those two names in a long time. My sophomore year of HS, St Laurence beat us (H-F) by three or four in super sectionals. Heartbreaker especially because our team the year before, which was probably even better, lost to Thornridge in OT in supers. That team was led by senior guard Dave Goff and junior center Mike Clark.

I believe Goff was all-state and he also won state doubles championship in tennis. Went to Texas A&M and set the school’s single session and career records for assists. Think they’ve been broken, but still near the top in both. His senior year there TA&M lost in Sweet Sixteen to eventual champs Louisville. Clark went to Oregon and had a pretty good career. Think he was drafted somewhere in mid-rounds back when they a bunch of rounds.
 
#112      
pruman91
I talked to one of my UK friends after the news on Moreno returning and the signing of Mem!@#$% and he said point blank " Pope will screw up whatever roster they end up with "........he is a life long UK fan and this is the most unhappy he has ever been..........there is a groundswell of anger that Pope is still the coach.............there really really is................
 
#113      
Illiniguy13
Oracle21 said:
I don’t really see “recruiting” as a thing anymore. I see it as a GM of a pro team. If the owner is willing to spend, it’ll be much easier to land guys you want. If they are not, then you better be good at Moneyball.

I think this staff is good at analytics and identifying what is valuable and putting an appropriate price on it. And they have enough money to land the guys they want. I don’t think it says anything about their recruiting chops tho. I mean BYU’s coach isn’t a great recruiter bc he landed AJ Dybantsa. He simply paid the most.
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That's all true, but BU wouldn't even be the guy playing "GM" here if he couldn't first sell Ayo on a vision, convince Trent and Damonte to stay in the program and then persuade Kofi to commit after witnessing an embarrassing home loss to Florida Atlantic. If it weren't for the old-fashioned infusion of talent who knows where BU or our program would be today.
 
#114      
DeonThomas
Fly Illini Fly! said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2062210878494400555
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Quite possible that Self gets the #1 nod here, when it comes to:
* the # of top recruits based upon his tenure in Champaign
* choosing the "right" talent among those ranked in the Top 100 (i.e. legitimate talent), and then finally
* making the most of the top talent he brought into the building, thus helping them reach their potential

I didn't do the math, but it might just be debatable........
 
#115      
Joel Goodson
DeonThomas said:
Quite possible that Self gets the #1 nod here, when it comes to:
* the # of top recruits based upon his tenure in Champaign
* choosing the "right" talent among those ranked in the Top 100 (i.e. legitimate talent), and then finally
* making the most of the top talent he brought into the building, thus helping them reach their potential

I didn't do the math, but it might just be debatable........
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not even remotely close, IMO

Self inherited a very well stocked program, whereas Underwood inherited a dumpster fire

what Underwood has built far eclipses Self's tenure. fully agree that Self had megawatt charisma. love the "he could sell popsicles to the eskimos" quote. so true
 
#117      
EmeraldCityIllini
On one hand, you have to have the funds to get your foot in the door with recruiting, which takes out competition.

On the other hand, you have to compete with anyone and everyone who has the funds to recruit a single player.

Personally, I’d argue this era has only strengthened my belief in this staffs “recruiting chops”. Besides, the player evaluation and relation to “value to our TEAM” is a massive component that I consider recruiting anyway.
 
#118      
BDMAN
GatorMcKlusky said:
He and Mason Martin are the modern day version of Jim Stack and Kevin Boyle.
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Ahhh you date yourself young Padwan I remember those two from St Laurence very well!!!
 
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#119      
ptgrd23
Joel Goodson said:
Self inherited a very well stocked program, whereas Underwood inherited a dumpster fire
what Underwood has built far eclipses Self's tenure. fully agree that Self had megawatt charisma. love the "he could sell popsicles to the eskimos" quote. so true
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Kansas has really fallen off in the $NIL and portal era

1. Even playing field vs old days when only a few schools could play large $$ -- see KY, AZ, Duke, KS
2. Portal lets talent redistribute instead of putting all the focus on top 50 HS recruits
3. Bill has health problems

Its apples to oranges. Coaches who are thriving in $NIL portal era

1. Hurley
2. May
3. Scheyer
4. Sampson
5. Underwood
6. Lloyd

1. Hurley's recruiting and retention has been incredible. He is also very good at development and X&O
2. May has been master at recruiting and team building. R
3. Scheyer stockpiles the most talent (not unlike old Calipari KY glory days)
4. Sampson is old school system guy with great retention. Recruits well. Really the outlier in this group
5. Pivoted to Europe. Pivoted to positional size and shooting. Still rising.
6. Great recruiter. Good game coach. Always good at bringing in international players.
 
#120      
Fighter of the Nightman
Fly Illini Fly! said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2062210878494400555
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When I see this list, the depressing nature of the ~2007 to 2019 stretch comes into full focus, especially the incredibly disappointing 2010 to 2014 years when hope and optimism had not fully dwindled yet. I mean, just look at the lack of meaningful games these talented players got to play in during the post-Dee Era, regardless of if that was due to poor talent evaluation, poor roster construction, bad coaching, bad luck, etc .... and I am limiting it to just a select group of players that were all ranked ahead of Deron Williams (#48), as that is a very elite cutoff.

#24 Jereme Richmond - One season, 20-14 (9-9) record, Second Round NCAAT loss and off-the-court issues.
#29 Meyers Leonard - Combined record of 37-29 (15-21) and one NCAAT appearance in just two seasons.
#35 DJ Richardson - Combined record of 81-57 (33-39), two NCAAT appearances, two total NCAAT victories and zero seasons finishing in the top 25 in his four seasons in Champaign.
#46 Leron Black - Combined record of 68-66 (26-36), zero NCAAT appearances and a grand total of ONE W-E-E-K spent in the top 25 during his four seasons in Champaign (which included one medical redshirt).

I mean, don't get me wrong - we have absolutely upgraded the talent significantly, especially as it relates to depth. However, even if our support pieces just simply were not up to par and we had a couple great players surrounded with little help ... these teams just simply were not devoid of talent, lol. It's crazy how bad we were.
 
#122      
WeWillWhen
Underwood has brought in more high quality talent than any of our prior coaches. I don’t think that is seriously debatable.

That said, he’s also had the advantage of the unlimited no-sit transfer rules, expanded coaching staff including Orlando Antigua, relaxed eligibility standards for Euro pros, a world-class training facility and massive over-the-table player salaries. Good on him for leveraging all of that to his advantage; others might not have accomplished the same.
 
#123      
SummerofGeorge
Fighter of the Nightman said:
When I see this list, the depressing nature of the ~2007 to 2019 stretch comes into full focus, especially the incredibly disappointing 2010 to 2014 years when hope and optimism had not fully dwindled yet. I mean, just look at the lack of meaningful games these talented players got to play in during the post-Dee Era, regardless of if that was due to poor talent evaluation, poor roster construction, bad coaching, bad luck, etc .... and I am limiting it to just a select group of players that were all ranked ahead of Deron Williams (#48), as that is a very elite cutoff.

#24 Jereme Richmond - One season, 20-14 (9-9) record, Second Round NCAAT loss and off-the-court issues.
#29 Meyers Leonard - Combined record of 37-29 (15-21) and one NCAAT appearance in just two seasons.
#35 DJ Richardson - Combined record of 81-57 (33-39), two NCAAT appearances, two total NCAAT victories and zero seasons finishing in the top 25 in his four seasons in Champaign.
#46 Leron Black - Combined record of 68-66 (26-36), zero NCAAT appearances and a grand total of ONE W-E-E-K spent in the top 25 during his four seasons in Champaign (which included one medical redshirt).

I mean, don't get me wrong - we have absolutely upgraded the talent significantly, especially as it relates to depth. However, even if our support pieces just simply were not up to par and we had a couple great players surrounded with little help ... these teams just simply were not devoid of talent, lol. It's crazy how bad we were.
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Leron and Meyers would have thrived with this coaching staff and this system
 
#125      
EmeraldCityIllini
WeWillWhen said:
Underwood has brought in more high quality talent than any of our prior coaches. I don’t think that is seriously debatable.

That said, he’s also had the advantage of the unlimited no-sit transfer rules, expanded coaching staff including Orlando Antigua, relaxed eligibility standards for Euro pros, a world-class training facility and massive over-the-table player salaries. Good on him for leveraging all of that to his advantage; others might not have accomplished the same.
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Interesting post.

I agree wholeheartedly illinois has made the new era advantageous to them (and I say Illinois and not staff, because it’s a massive group effort). But obviously, a few of those examples you cited extend to all staffs - like Euro eligibility and no-sit transfers, and for the others in our class, high salaries.

I believe the staff has created a few of these advantages, or if not created, very much strengthened. As for Antigua, yes, it’s 1000% true Illinois had to give Brad the resources to sign him, but Brad also had to take a chance on him the first go around after the SF debacle, create a relationship, and make it so OA felt comfortable coming back when Cal left UK.

I guess my broader point is, in the previous era, despite our downturn, I think most fans including myself, saw no reason we couldn’t be a top-15ish program due to resources. And now, I feel very similar on the resource front (maybe closer to 10 than 15). But the guy in charge now is just getting it done - to which, I will not take for granted
 
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