That's all true, but BU wouldn't even be the guy playing "GM" here if he couldn't first sell Ayo on a vision, convince Trent and Damonte to stay in the program and then persuade Kofi to commit after witnessing an embarrassing home loss to Florida Atlantic. If it weren't for the old-fashioned infusion of talent who knows where BU or our program would be today.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
- Status
DeonThomas
- South Carolina
Quite possible that Self gets the #1 nod here, when it comes to:
* the # of top recruits based upon his tenure in Champaign
* choosing the "right" talent among those ranked in the Top 100 (i.e. legitimate talent), and then finally
* making the most of the top talent he brought into the building, thus helping them reach their potential
I didn't do the math, but it might just be debatable........
Joel Goodson
- it's all ball bearings, nowadays
not even remotely close, IMO
Self inherited a very well stocked program, whereas Underwood inherited a dumpster fire
what Underwood has built far eclipses Self's tenure. fully agree that Self had megawatt charisma. love the "he could sell popsicles to the eskimos" quote. so true
Battle89
- Cary-Grove, the better Trojan team
On one hand, you have to have the funds to get your foot in the door with recruiting, which takes out competition.
On the other hand, you have to compete with anyone and everyone who has the funds to recruit a single player.
Personally, I’d argue this era has only strengthened my belief in this staffs “recruiting chops”. Besides, the player evaluation and relation to “value to our TEAM” is a massive component that I consider recruiting anyway.
On the other hand, you have to compete with anyone and everyone who has the funds to recruit a single player.
Personally, I’d argue this era has only strengthened my belief in this staffs “recruiting chops”. Besides, the player evaluation and relation to “value to our TEAM” is a massive component that I consider recruiting anyway.
Ahhh you date yourself young Padwan I remember those two from St Laurence very well!!!
Last edited:
ptgrd23
- orange county CA
Kansas has really fallen off in the $NIL and portal era
1. Even playing field vs old days when only a few schools could play large $$ -- see KY, AZ, Duke, KS
2. Portal lets talent redistribute instead of putting all the focus on top 50 HS recruits
3. Bill has health problems
Its apples to oranges. Coaches who are thriving in $NIL portal era
1. Hurley
2. May
3. Scheyer
4. Sampson
5. Underwood
6. Lloyd
1. Hurley's recruiting and retention has been incredible. He is also very good at development and X&O
2. May has been master at recruiting and team building. R
3. Scheyer stockpiles the most talent (not unlike old Calipari KY glory days)
4. Sampson is old school system guy with great retention. Recruits well. Really the outlier in this group
5. Pivoted to Europe. Pivoted to positional size and shooting. Still rising.
6. Great recruiter. Good game coach. Always good at bringing in international players.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
When I see this list, the depressing nature of the ~2007 to 2019 stretch comes into full focus, especially the incredibly disappointing 2010 to 2014 years when hope and optimism had not fully dwindled yet. I mean, just look at the lack of meaningful games these talented players got to play in during the post-Dee Era, regardless of if that was due to poor talent evaluation, poor roster construction, bad coaching, bad luck, etc .... and I am limiting it to just a select group of players that were all ranked ahead of Deron Williams (#48), as that is a very elite cutoff.
#24 Jereme Richmond - One season, 20-14 (9-9) record, Second Round NCAAT loss and off-the-court issues.
#29 Meyers Leonard - Combined record of 37-29 (15-21) and one NCAAT appearance in just two seasons.
#35 DJ Richardson - Combined record of 81-57 (33-39), two NCAAT appearances, two total NCAAT victories and zero seasons finishing in the top 25 in his four seasons in Champaign.
#46 Leron Black - Combined record of 68-66 (26-36), zero NCAAT appearances and a grand total of ONE W-E-E-K spent in the top 25 during his four seasons in Champaign (which included one medical redshirt).
I mean, don't get me wrong - we have absolutely upgraded the talent significantly, especially as it relates to depth. However, even if our support pieces just simply were not up to par and we had a couple great players surrounded with little help ... these teams just simply were not devoid of talent, lol. It's crazy how bad we were.
Underwood has brought in more high quality talent than any of our prior coaches. I don’t think that is seriously debatable.
That said, he’s also had the advantage of the unlimited no-sit transfer rules, expanded coaching staff including Orlando Antigua, relaxed eligibility standards for Euro pros, a world-class training facility and massive over-the-table player salaries. Good on him for leveraging all of that to his advantage; others might not have accomplished the same.
That said, he’s also had the advantage of the unlimited no-sit transfer rules, expanded coaching staff including Orlando Antigua, relaxed eligibility standards for Euro pros, a world-class training facility and massive over-the-table player salaries. Good on him for leveraging all of that to his advantage; others might not have accomplished the same.
Leron and Meyers would have thrived with this coaching staff and this system
Leron did play for BU his Jr year. Averaged 15 and 5 - easily his best year. Then he left. Not sure why.
Interesting post.
I agree wholeheartedly illinois has made the new era advantageous to them (and I say Illinois and not staff, because it’s a massive group effort). But obviously, a few of those examples you cited extend to all staffs - like Euro eligibility and no-sit transfers, and for the others in our class, high salaries.
I believe the staff has created a few of these advantages, or if not created, very much strengthened. As for Antigua, yes, it’s 1000% true Illinois had to give Brad the resources to sign him, but Brad also had to take a chance on him the first go around after the SF debacle, create a relationship, and make it so OA felt comfortable coming back when Cal left UK.
I guess my broader point is, in the previous era, despite our downturn, I think most fans including myself, saw no reason we couldn’t be a top-15ish program due to resources. And now, I feel very similar on the resource front (maybe closer to 10 than 15). But the guy in charge now is just getting it done - to which, I will not take for granted
Totally forgot that. I guess I meant more the current version of BU because I feel he has reinvented himself to some degree during his time here. Wish Leron would have stayed!
Joel Goodson
- it's all ball bearings, nowadays
Steve Krafcisin says hello
that one still kills me. I thought we could been something that next year. I loved Leron black's game!
Well, this Lockport Porter class of 77sends greetings and salutations to him as well!!
Honestly, I think Weber is really the only coach that's an interesting question of if he would have done better with NIL and the instant portal.
Groce is an obvious no, young Self would have been incredible with these rules, and I think He son and Kruger are both good with those rules.
Weber was probably clean to a fault with his recruiting and it cost him when he kept striking out on the top end talent and then would lose the guys ranked a bit lower as a result since they would commit to a Purdue or Wisconsin type team while Weber was focused on the Eric Gordon's of the world.
Weber was pretty good at the actual coaching part imo and reminds me a lot of Matt Painter. If you simply improved his recruiting with money he might have been able to sustain some success. However, he also seemed stubborn so maybe he would be like Shaka and struggle because he refused to use the portal.
Used to get a lot of strange guys going pro that had no chance of getting drafted before NIL.
I feel like a lot of kids surround themselves with the wrong type of people and they get blatantly incorrect advice on when to go pro(see Kofi). In Black's case he had a medical redshirt but had been in college for 4 years so it's possible he graduated and just wanted to try to play professionally(which he did do in South America), but yeah he probably would have been better off sticking around and picking up a graduate degree or certificate in a 5th year and then going pro.
Jeremy Richmond is the all time most baffling one imo. Never any shot he was getting drafted after his freshman year and he actually might have had a chance to get drafted after his sophomore year if he kept his head on straight and improved. Nearly 8 pts and 5 rebounds in 20 minutes as a freshman isn't terrible production to build off of and McCamey, Davis, and Tisdale were all out of eligibility.
He could have probably become the go to guy on a starting lineup that could have actually been pretty good running out Richardson(jr.), Paul(jr), Bertrand (so), Richmond(so), and Leonard(so).
Richmond went pro because he didn’t have a choice. He wasn’t welcome back for his sophomore season.
Always thought Leron was one of our great what-ifs.
Richmond was a classic case of being a head case. A bad decision but not so baffling to me considering the history of the person making the decision.
Another decision I really didn't like for either party was Giorgi. I understand he was stuck behind Kofi - really unfortunate for him - but he was actually a really solid college player who didn't really have any business going pro when he did.
I guess Leron has gotten into coaching... He was the Player Development Coach for the Trailblazers this year. He's on Linked-in..
I had no idea... Good for him.
Not that strange when you think about it tbh. He'd gotten his degree early, as many players do. Was engaged. And playing in college did not pay money. He knew he wasn't going to the NBA but figured on a pro career playing abroad, and decided to start on that road a year earlier.
In the pre-NIL context it was still rare, but made sense to some extent. Nowadays it would be an absolutely crazy thing to do.
Rumor has it if you hold a replica illinois football helmet up to your ear you can hear him yelling in all caps that Aaron Bailey is an All-B1G caliber QB.
- Status