Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#276      
NarrowJ
wc_illini said:
Yes, for 68 seconds in the first half. Why didn't that continue? He never saw the court the rest of the season except garbage time.


I previously said: "If he was "good" but merely overshadowed, he would have played more than 1.4mpg (including 13 DNPs) in the 22 games after Jan 8, especially given the injuries and OT games we had. That suggests the staff didn't think very much of his ability to contribute."


I already said I don't need to argue about the label. The part I'm not going to let go of is that I'm convinced he was either not close to being worth the $ we paid him, or if he was the staff should have found more ways to use him (I also acknowledged the possibility that he couldn't get up to speed after the missed time, but I think that's at least partially a reflection of his ability/fit/coachability, plus that wasn't your argument anyway).
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Your guess is as good as mine as to why it didn't continue, but I'm not going to spend the next two pages discussing that subject (because nobody here knows that).

Definitely wonder about 'ways to use him', because to me it seemed he'd have played more if he was more versatile than 'on-ball creator'. I didn't think much of his ability to contribute either at that same point, however I never thought it was because he wasn't a good player. It was because Keaton secured the only real position Mihailo could play. We weren't going to roll him out at the 2/3 when we have Jake. Makes no sense.

If we both agree he doesn't need to wear the label 'bust' then I'm done here. I never claimed he was worth what we paid him, I argued against him being a bust due to the nuance of Wagler coming out of nowhere and Mihailo not having a role mostly due to that. But lesson learned: you don't win every single investment, so no sense in being this angry you overpaid for a guy and another much cheaper guy ended up being way better and you rode him all of the way to a Final Four.
 
#277      
hoopsfan47
Does anyone else but me wonder why we are building a roster of really good guards with only a couple of young, unproven bigs under 6'10" returning next season and no bigs recruited at this point? With Tomi, Z, and likely Mirk departing next year, it seems practical to be seeking a couple elite 7 feet + bigs in order to compete.

That said, I am sure BU and staff know this and are pursuing a couple, and quite likely are aware of what might be available in Europe or elsewhere. But not a thing has been reported here by our insiders of which I am aware...or anyone. I would certainly like an Aday Mara clone or two...or somehow get Z and Tomi another season which would blow everyone's mind. Seems to me it was proven last year that a 7'+ athletic big is needed, and hopefully two. I like this season's roster, but next season will depend much on some guys we have not even heard of yet.
 
#278      
wc_illini
NarrowJ said:
Your guess is as good as mine as to why it didn't continue, but I'm not going to spend the next two pages discussing that subject (because nobody here knows that).

Definitely wonder about 'ways to use him', because to me it seemed he'd have played more if he was more versatile than 'on-ball creator'. I didn't think much of his ability to contribute either at that same point, however I never thought it was because he wasn't a good player. It was because Keaton secured the only real position Mihailo could play. We weren't going to roll him out at the 2/3 when we have Jake. Makes no sense.

If we both agree he doesn't need to wear the label 'bust' then I'm done here. I never claimed he was worth what we paid him, I argued against him being a bust due to the nuance of Wagler coming out of nowhere and Mihailo not having a role mostly due to that. But lesson learned: you don't win every single investment, so no sense in being this angry you overpaid for a guy and another much cheaper guy ended up being way better and you rode him all of the way to a Final Four.
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Let's just leave it at "he wasn't worth what he paid him." We'll never agree on exactly why or whether he meets the criteria for a bust, so there's no reason to argue about it.

And it's funny you think I'm angry about this (I'm not), since I thought you were angry about people calling him a bust.
 
#279      
EmeraldCityIllini
hoopsfan47 said:
Does anyone else but me wonder why we are building a roster of really good guards with only a couple of young, unproven bigs under 6'10" returning next season and no bigs recruited at this point? With Tomi, Z, and likely Mirk departing next year, it seems practical to be seeking a couple elite 7 feet + bigs in order to compete.

That said, I am sure BU and staff know this and are pursuing a couple, and quite likely are aware of what might be available in Europe or elsewhere. But not a thing has been reported here by our insiders of which I am aware...or anyone. I would certainly like an Aday Mara clone or two...or somehow get Z and Tomi another season which would blow everyone's mind. Seems to me it was proven last year that a 7'+ athletic big is needed, and hopefully two. I like this season's roster, but next season will depend much on some guys we have not even heard of yet.
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I, too, would love an Aday Mara waiting in the wings on our scout team.
 
#280      
Chief Piasa
hoopsfan47 said:
Does anyone else but me wonder why we are building a roster of really good guards with only a couple of young, unproven bigs under 6'10" returning next season and no bigs recruited at this point? With Tomi, Z, and likely Mirk departing next year, it seems practical to be seeking a couple elite 7 feet + bigs in order to compete.

That said, I am sure BU and staff know this and are pursuing a couple, and quite likely are aware of what might be available in Europe or elsewhere. But not a thing has been reported here by our insiders of which I am aware...or anyone. I would certainly like an Aday Mara clone or two...or somehow get Z and Tomi another season which would blow everyone's mind. Seems to me it was proven last year that a 7'+ athletic big is needed, and hopefully two. I like this season's roster, but next season will depend much on some guys we have not even heard of yet.
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See #48 re 5 star center Darius Wabbington.
 
#281      
blackdog
hoopsfan47 said:
Does anyone else but me wonder why we are building a roster of really good guards with only a couple of young, unproven bigs under 6'10" returning next season and no bigs recruited at this point? With Tomi, Z, and likely Mirk departing next year, it seems practical to be seeking a couple elite 7 feet + bigs in order to compete.

That said, I am sure BU and staff know this and are pursuing a couple, and quite likely are aware of what might be available in Europe or elsewhere. But not a thing has been reported here by our insiders of which I am aware...or anyone. I would certainly like an Aday Mara clone or two...or somehow get Z and Tomi another season which would blow everyone's mind. Seems to me it was proven last year that a 7'+ athletic big is needed, and hopefully two. I like this season's roster, but next season will depend much on some guys we have not even heard of yet.
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When there's as many players entering the portal every year as there have been its not so much a concern. Theres not going to be any talk about those guys until much later in the year.
 
#284      
hoopsfan47
Chief Piasa said:
See #48 re 5 star center Darius Wabbington.
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I am well aware of Wabbington. He is listed on the FIBA roster at 6'10" and played a ton on the perimeter. Good shooter but not a rim protector....more of a replacement for Mirk IMHO...and a very good one. Ethan Taylor, OTOH, was listed at 7'2" and fit that mold as a defender, but not a shooter of the mold BU seeks.

My interest would be in finding a Wabbington type of skills at 7'2"+. Of course that is dream scenario. Just wanting to know what is in the works.
 
#285      
Victor Choke-a-Baby
hoopsfan47 said:
My interest would be in finding a Wabbington type of skills at 7'2"+. Of course that is dream scenario. Just wanting to know what is in the works.
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To answer your question yes, it's in the works. Or I should say "they are" in the works.

We're looking at options from the H.S. ranks, portal, and oversees currently that the staff is working and actively monitoring, and will be throughout the season.
 
#286      
CoalCity
hoopsfan47 said:
Does anyone else but me wonder why we are building a roster of really good guards with only a couple of young, unproven bigs under 6'10" returning next season and no bigs recruited at this point? With Tomi, Z, and likely Mirk departing next year, it seems practical to be seeking a couple elite 7 feet + bigs in order to compete.

That said, I am sure BU and staff know this and are pursuing a couple, and quite likely are aware of what might be available in Europe or elsewhere. But not a thing has been reported here by our insiders of which I am aware...or anyone. I would certainly like an Aday Mara clone or two...or somehow get Z and Tomi another season which would blow everyone's mind. Seems to me it was proven last year that a 7'+ athletic big is needed, and hopefully two. I like this season's roster, but next season will depend much on some guys we have not even heard of yet.
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Luigi Suigo is on deck if he doesnt go to the NBA
 
#288      
PepeSilvia
hoopsfan47 said:
Does anyone else but me wonder why we are building a roster of really good guards with only a couple of young, unproven bigs under 6'10" returning next season and no bigs recruited at this point? With Tomi, Z, and likely Mirk departing next year, it seems practical to be seeking a couple elite 7 feet + bigs in order to compete.

That said, I am sure BU and staff know this and are pursuing a couple, and quite likely are aware of what might be available in Europe or elsewhere. But not a thing has been reported here by our insiders of which I am aware...or anyone. I would certainly like an Aday Mara clone or two...or somehow get Z and Tomi another season which would blow everyone's mind. Seems to me it was proven last year that a 7'+ athletic big is needed, and hopefully two. I like this season's roster, but next season will depend much on some guys we have not even heard of yet.
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A lot of bigs take more time to adjust to the college level and develop.

For every Kofi that is awesome as a freshman there are like 10 Coleman Hawkins who didn't really get good until year 4.

The strategy might simply be to get young and talented guards that are cheaper than getting a vet one and then add vet bigs in the portal.
 
#291      
Emerson Bigguns
EmeraldCityIllini said:
I, too, would love an Aday Mara waiting in the wings on our scout team.
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Just remember, Aday Mara started all of 9 games in 2 years at UCLA. As soon as he showed he was good enough to play, he hit the portal.
Having a guy like that on the scout team now, doesn’t mean he will hang around long enough to be a difference maker. If guys think they should play more, resentment grows. Managing the egos of talented bench players has never been more difficult.

You’d rather be the coach who says, “Ive always loved your game and believed you should have played more/been a bigger focal point” Than they guy who has been telling you, you aren’t ready yet. (May seems to have been a pro at the former…glad he’s in Dallas)

I’m pretty confident if this season goes anything like we think it will, we won’t have trouble finding whatever we need.
 
#293      
PepeSilvia
Joel Goodson said:
everyone gets a visit!
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I'm assuming schools are putting you and your family up while trying to woo you. Probably pretty fun and you get out of class if it's a weekday(don't know how much class these prep schools actually have).

Also, with the transfer portal it's probably a good idea to cast a wide net and then see how rosters look with retention or transfers before committing somewhere.
 
#294      
grue2
doowink said:
Didn't there use to be a limit to the number of official visits a player could take????
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A player used to be limited to 5 official visits per year. That limit was removed ~3 years ago. I think the official visits are still limited to two nights to prevent teams from paying for their and their parent's housing year round.
 
#295      
NarrowJ
wc_illini said:
Let's just leave it at "he wasn't worth what he paid him."
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Fine with me, agreed with this from the get-go. You win some, you lose some. Nobody ever wins 100% of their investments, especially not in this.

wc_illini said:
We'll never agree on exactly why or whether he meets the criteria for a bust, so there's no reason to argue about it.
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Here's this word you supposedly don't care about. Why would we argue over this word you don't care about (but also keep using)?
 
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#297      
NarrowJ
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr? said:
If Petro wasn't a bust, then the term isn't even existent.

He was literally unplayable. Even when we needed him.
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Need to wait at least until his college career reaches some sort of apex to label him a bust, sir.

Jimmy Butler: 2.6 ppg as a rookie

Steve Nash: 3.3 ppg as a rookie

Both busts amirite?

Infinitely more examples of this in college. I'm glad we didn't give up on someone like, say, Coleman Hawkins after a single season.
 
#298      
Fly Illini Fly!
NarrowJ said:
Both busts amirite?

Infinitely more examples of this in college. I'm glad we didn't give up on someone like, say, Coleman Hawkins after a single season.
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Coleman Hawkins his freshman year arrived as our #9thMan and was our #9thMan. He did not arrive with the expectation of being one of our highest paid and most sought after players like Petro.

Wagler was awesome, and therefore it's understandable that Petro wasn't one of our best players. But the fact that he couldn't even play and was the equivalent to a walk-on, makes him a bust from IIllinois's standpoint.

It's absolutely possible he goes to Seton Hall and has a great year. Just because it didn't work here doesn't mean it won't elsewhere.

Carey Booth was for all essence a "bust" in his time HERE (not quite to the degree of Petro; didn't exactly come in with starter expectations).

Was he a bust for Colorado State? I don't think so. Averaged 10.7pts / 5.7rebs / 41% from 3pt.
 
#299      
EmeraldCityIllini
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Coleman Hawkins his freshman year arrived as our #9thMan and was our #9thMan. He did not arrive with the expectation of being one of our highest paid and most sought after players like Petro.

Wagler was awesome, and therefore it's understandable that Petro wasn't one of our best players. But the fact that he couldn't even play and was the equivalent to a walk-on, makes him a bust from IIllinois's standpoint.

It's absolutely possible he goes to Seton Hall and has a great year. Just because it didn't work here doesn't mean it won't elsewhere.

Carey Booth was for all essence a "bust" in his time HERE (not quite to the degree of Petro; didn't exactly come in with starter expectations).

Was he a bust for Colorado State? I don't think so. Averaged 10.7pts / 5.7rebs / 41% from 3pt.
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If Petro played, and say averaged 9 and 6, with mediocre defense. And we are a 6 seed and lose in sweet 16 - is he a bust from an Illini standpoint?

There will always be examples of players reaching or falling short of broad expectations. But I reallllllly wanna be careful calling guys who didn’t get on the court for awesome teams busts.
 
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