2017 Coaching Carousel

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#2,176      

Second and Chalmers

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Second and Chalmers
Obelix said:
Knock yourself out.

But hiring those would rival the most uninspiring hiring decisions in Illini basketball history.
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What if SMU wins like 30 games and is in the top 20 and the Sweet Sixteen?

It's kinda like the Greg McDermott thing. Yeah, the Iowa State tenure scares you, but shouldn't that be at least somewhat minimized by the fact that he's coaching one of the best teams in the country RIGHT NOW?

SMU isn't there yet. But that potential exists. Worth watching, IMO, because Jankovich is another hand-in-glove fit.
 
#2,177      

golferjohn1970

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golferjohn1970
No to Cuonzo

Just say no to Cuonzo!! He might be able to recruit but he isn't much better of a coach then Groce. I like Keatts or Matt McCall they are winning big time right now let's get them before some other major schools swoop in and take them next year.
 
#2,178      

golferjohn1970

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golferjohn1970
Groce needs to Go

I agree other then a complete turn around the next 12 games maybe winning at least 7-8 of them Groce needs to be dismissed. 5 years is a long enough sample size to evaluate him and the jury is in he can't coach!! He can go back to a mid-major and maybe his system would work there but no success and you don't change assistants at all?
 
#2,181      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
Like many, I just don't see the great love for Martin. I just haven't been overly impressed with his teams at Cal. I watch a fair amount of Pac 12 basketball and with the talent he's had I think his teams should be better. A first round loss to Hawaii in tourney last year even with injuries is a red flag too. I think he'd be an OK hire, but I just don't see a high ceiling.

Kevin Keatts just seems like a much better hire. He can recruit and he's been successful. I also like that he has a plan for his teams -- pressure defense and transition offense. One thing that drives me nuts about this year's Illini team is it doesn't seem to have an identity. At Illinois he should be able to recruit the type of players he'd need to run his system. How well would it play in the Big 10 is another question, but I think well enough to put the Illini in the top quarter of the conference each year. Someone pointed out he doesn't have a signature win, but that doesn't worry me that much. This year and last, his teams have only played 3 teams from power conferences -- two of them away (Georgetown and Clemson) and Duke in the tourney last year. I'm not ready to give up on this year (not sure why, but I'm not) and hope the ship gets righted. But if a change is made after this year, Keatts looks like a great candidate. Only worry that I'd have with the hire is that the results might not be there in the first year or two until he gets in the players that fit his system and people get down on him and the team. But if he can keep all or most of the incoming class intact, I feel he's a good enough coach to have the team competitive even in his first year.
 
#2,182      

EJ33

E
San Francisco
EJ33
Second and Chalmers said:
What if SMU wins like 30 games and is in the top 20 and the Sweet Sixteen?

It's kinda like the Greg McDermott thing. Yeah, the Iowa State tenure scares you, but shouldn't that be at least somewhat minimized by the fact that he's coaching one of the best teams in the country RIGHT NOW?

SMU isn't there yet. But that potential exists. Worth watching, IMO, because Jankovich is another hand-in-glove fit.
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No excitement for Jankovich, but you're absolutely right that he's worth watching. He seems to be recruiting pretty well this year too (#44 class on 247 sports).

Another thing I'd like to see is a coach who is "punching above his weight class" in terms of recruiting success. It's one thing to be a great recruiter while you're an assistant at a blue blood, and quite another to reel in recruits at a lower echelon program with no built-in advantages.
 
#2,183      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Second and Chalmers said:
What if SMU wins like 30 games and is in the top 20 and the Sweet Sixteen?

It's kinda like the Greg McDermott thing. Yeah, the Iowa State tenure scares you, but shouldn't that be at least somewhat minimized by the fact that he's coaching one of the best teams in the country RIGHT NOW?

SMU isn't there yet. But that potential exists. Worth watching, IMO, because Jankovich is another hand-in-glove fit.
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Not sure what you mean "hand-in-glove-fit" I just hope you do not mean for the Illini job. All three would be terrible fits IMO, very uninspiring, to the point I am not even worried that JW would go that route.

A season or a specific team in a season do not make a coach. I know... all of a sudden some posters love Pitino Jr., even Weber. Greg McDermott? Terrible at Iowa State, but also pretty bad the last couple of years. So far in his career, he has been successful with his son, who indeed happened to be one of the best college players at the time.

Tim Jankovich never made the NCAA in 9 years as a head coach. Never in his entire career! Having a pretty good season with Larry Brown's recruits make him now a good candidate for the Illini job? Huh?
 
#2,184      

Second and Chalmers

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Second and Chalmers
EyeoftheIllini said:
Only worry that I'd have with the hire is that the results might not be there in the first year or two until he gets in the players that fit his system and people get down on him and the team.
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I know nothing of Buzz Peterson's UNCW, so maybe his players were talented recruits and a perfect fit for Keatts' system, I dunno.

But after going 9-23 in Peterson's last year, dead last in the conference, Keatts took largely the same group of players, plus a freshman PG he recruited in the spring and four ineligible transfers (meaning they only had 9 scholarship players available), and after starting 5-7 (0-1) turned it around and won the damn conference. A program that hadn't won 13 games in a season since 2008 closed on a 13-7 stretch, including road wins over 3 of the 4 best teams in the league.

That's the single most impressive coaching job on any of the resumes we've discussed.

Am I still worried that year 1 at Illinois would be a struggle on the court? Yes. But I'm probably less worried about Keatts there than anyone else on the list.
 
#2,185      

radiodj

R
Houston
radiodj
Second and Chalmers said:
I know nothing of Buzz Peterson's UNCW, so maybe his players were talented recruits and a perfect fit for Keatts' system, I dunno.

But after going 9-23 in Peterson's last year, dead last in the conference, Keatts took largely the same group of players, plus a freshman PG he recruited in the spring and four ineligible transfers (meaning they only had 9 scholarship players available), and after starting 5-7 (0-1) turned it around and won the damn conference. A program that hadn't won 13 games in a season since 2008 closed on a 13-7 stretch, including road wins over 3 of the 4 best teams in the league.

That's the single most impressive coaching job on any of the resumes we've discussed.

Am I still worried that year 1 at Illinois would be a struggle on the court? Yes. But I'm probably less worried about Keatts there than anyone else on the list.
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Less worried than you'd be about Jankovich? ;)
 
#2,186      

Second and Chalmers

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Second and Chalmers
Obelix said:
Not sure what you mean "hand-in-glove-fit"
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What I mean is that he's got deep ties to the job. Whether it's a good resume or a bad resume, it's a resume that obviously points here.

Cuonzo and Jankovich are perfect fits. That doesn't mean they're perfect candidates. As opposed to, say, Randy Bennett who is an awesome coach who would be a big time candidate for the Illinois job, but a weird fit. Great coach, but a west coast guy who recruits Australia better than anybody doesn't make a ton of sense in Champaign.


Tim Jankovich never made the NCAA in 9 years as a head coach. Never in his entire career! Having a pretty good season with Larry Brown's recruits make him now a good candidate for the Illini job? Huh?
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If SMU collapses badly enough that they miss the tournament, obviously I will have zero interest and so will everyone else. My interest is purely contingent on this being a special, nationally relevant season for them, which having watched them eviscerate UConn last night I feel is possible.

And I think it's fair to say that while obviously he was not the head coach, Jankovich was intimately involved in Brown's rebuild of that program as Associate Head Coach and HC-in-waiting for a septuagenarian NBA coach with one foot in retirement. SMU paid Jankovich way more than their previous head coach and way more than he was making at ISU to lure him away to be the COO to Brown's CEO.
 
#2,187      

UofIChE06

U
Pittsburgh
UofIChE06
I don't really understand the swing this board has made to the Keatt's train. Sure he has done a superb job at actually coaching but what makes anyone think he can recruit at UI? The best recruits he has reeled in were from the HS he coached at. That isn't exactly something you can count on even if it is a perennial contender. Plus the HS is in Virginia which isn't exactly in the UI wheelhouse of recruiting.

It is entirely possible that he would be a guy that comes in makes quick improvements then struggles as time goes on unless he can make connections within a few hours drive of campus. There are very few programs that can consistently recruit nationwide and UI is not one.

That is why, while I agree he is the better coach more than likely, I think Martin is probably a better hire. He is very familiar with the area. His staff is as well. What he lacks in coaching chops he may be able to make up for in talent. Or he may recruit well and fail. Either way neither hire is a sure thing but I think talent will usually shine through.
 
#2,188      

Deleted member 3875

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Guest
Deleted member 3875
These names bandied about have zero buzz. I'd like to believe JW has a short list that has the same impact that he brought to the table with Lovie.
 
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#2,189      

Second and Chalmers

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Second and Chalmers
UofIChE06 said:
what makes anyone think he can recruit at UI?
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A background as a HS coach, an assistant at Louisville (this idea that he was their "lead recruiter" is not something I can find evidence of, but he was definitely considered a good recruiter there), and a relatively young guy with a good personality.

None of that provides any kind of certainty. Martin is definitely more proven in that regard. But Keatts certainly does not profile as someone who would be a poor recruiter and would not be in over his head in Power Five recruiting battles at all.

Another fun fact: yes, the Louisville scandal and Keatts' unknown knowledge and/or role is concerning. You know who else was on that Louisville staff? Wyking Jones, now an assistant at Cal to Cuonzo Martin.
 
#2,190      

89illinigrad

89illinigrad
Chicago
89illinigrad
UofIChE06 said:
I don't really understand the swing this board has made to the Keatt's train. Sure he has done a superb job at actually coaching but what makes anyone think he can recruit at UI? The best recruits he has reeled in were from the HS he coached at. That isn't exactly something you can count on even if it is a perennial contender. Plus the HS is in Virginia which isn't exactly in the UI wheelhouse of recruiting.

It is entirely possible that he would be a guy that comes in makes quick improvements then struggles as time goes on unless he can make connections within a few hours drive of campus. There are very few programs that can consistently recruit nationwide and UI is not one.

That is why, while I agree he is the better coach more than likely, I think Martin is probably a better hire. He is very familiar with the area. His staff is as well. What he lacks in coaching chops he may be able to make up for in talent. Or he may recruit well and fail. Either way neither hire is a sure thing but I think talent will usually shine through.
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From his UNCW bio:

"The engaging Keatts is known for his recruiting expertise. He helped the Cardinals compile two straight top-10 recruiting classes en route to a pair of Big East Conference championships and NCAA Final Four appearances in 2012 and 2013. In 2012-13, the Cardinals won a school-record 35 games and captured the NCAA title."

I think he'd do just fine recruiting wise.
 
#2,191      

Second and Chalmers

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Second and Chalmers
carmelillini said:
These names bandied about have zero buzz. I'd like to believe JW has a short list that has the same impact that he brought to the table with Lovie.
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That's literally impossible. Illinois Basketball isn't bad enough for something as transformational as Lovie.

Get that idea out of your head. Miracles don't happen twice.
 
#2,194      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Second and Chalmers said:
What I mean is that he's got deep ties to the job. Whether it's a good resume or a bad resume, it's a resume that obviously points here.
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I think you have to be careful. Just because Jankovich served as an assistant under Self and Kruger does not make his "hand-in-glove-fit." actually, it does not even make him a fit.

There are many coaches (especially in mid-west), with some kind of connection to previous coaches and/or our program. Means very little. Even Cuonzo Martin, who I think is a much better fit, a pretty good fit actually, his connection to Keady or Weber is totally irrelevant other than he is a mid-west guy.


If SMU collapses badly enough that they miss the tournament, obviously I will have zero interest and so will everyone else. My interest is purely contingent on this being a special, nationally relevant season for them.
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Again, having a pretty good season, especially with Larry Brown's recruits, means very little. It is not that Jankovich did not help, but Larry Brown is Larry Brown and still has huge "name brand" recognition.

But let's not ignore 9 seasons as a head coach on his own, his entire career, NO NCAA appearances. Zero! Huge red flag. You will have an easier chance selling an assistant (e.g., Dawkins, Wojo, Collins, etc.) on potential, than a coach who has failed to make a single appearance in 9 years as a head coach on his own (not with Larry Brown's help).

Tim Jankovich? Not at Illinois, not now.
 
#2,195      

Second and Chalmers

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Second and Chalmers
Obelix said:
I think you have to be careful. Just because Jankovich served as an assistant under Self and Kruger does not make his "hand-in-glove-fit." actually, it does not even make him a fit.
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Born and raised in Gary, IN, was an assistant at Illinois under the best coach we've ever had, was a head coach at Illinois State, and has had a hand in recruiting multiple Illinois players currently on SMU.

That's a fit.

But let's not ignore 9 seasons as a head coach on his own, his entire career, NO NCAA appearances. Zero! Huge red flag.
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I'm not worried about the North Texas tenure 25 years ago. That's a garbage job that he took when he was too young, and he actually did fairly well there under the circumstances.

The concern is why he wasn't better at ISU. People always talked about him being a good coach when he was there, and that was the Valley at the peak of its powers, a conference in which ISU was behind in resources, but his initial improvement there kinda flagged a bit. He was not an Illinois-worthy candidate when he left there. Not a million miles away, but just not there.

If he's an Illinois-worthy candidate now, the SMU tenure is gonna have to do a lot of the work.

Talk to me in 6 weeks. One way or the other, I suspect our views will be closer to each other at that point.
 
#2,196      

LurkLongandProsper

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C-U
LurkLongandProsper
Hey all, following up on my previous post HERE:

LurkLongandProsper said:
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There was at least one request for a fuller data set with previous years of KenPom. I went ahead and compiled a spreadsheet with the Overall, AdjO, AdjD, and Tempo #s as well as 247 Recruiting Class Rank for every target included in that post for their entire tenure at their current school, + the year prior to their arrival for comparison. Image sample to follow, and here is the link to it on Google Sheets.

I think there's some really interesting stuff in there worth discussing, take a look, let me know what you think (I am open to requests for additional data addition as well, and please feel free to request formatting changes if you feel they will make it more readable). :thumb:


Link to it on Google Sheets.

HTJYilC.png
 
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#2,197      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
LurkLongandProsper said:
Hey all, following up on my previous post HERE:



There was at least one request for a fuller data set with previous years of KenPom. I went ahead and compiled a spreadsheet with the Overall, AdjO, AdjD, and Tempo #s as well as 247 Recruiting Class Rank for every target included in that post for their entire tenure at their current school, + the year prior to their arrival for comparison. Image sample to follow, and here is the link to it on Google Sheets.

I think there's some really interesting stuff in there worth discussing, take a look, let me know what you think (I am open to requests for additional data addition as well). :thumb:


Link to it on Google Sheets.

HTJYilC.png
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Awesome, awesome awesome.

Thanks! :thumb:
 
#2,198      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Second and Chalmers said:
Born and raised in Gary, IN, was an assistant at Illinois under the best coach we've ever had, was a head coach at Illinois State, and has had a hand in recruiting multiple Illinois players currently on SMU.
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SMU got those Illinois players in one class, 2013. Amazingly enough, that coincides with the presence of another assistant coach on that SMU staff who moved on to Kansas. And a guy who truly does have "deep ties" to Illinois.

It's an odd fascination with a guy who has little chance to even make the list. And that won't change in 6 weeks.
 
#2,199      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
I'll shut up about it.

But if SMU is a 3 seed in the second weekend of the tournament during our coaching search and we've got brand new accounts popping up right and left in here going "zOMG did u guys know SMUs coach was an assistant here 4 Self!?" don't say you weren't warned.
 
#2,200      

GForce

GForce
GForce
Remember when we used to hire coaches with 'Final 4' on their resume (Lou, Lon), or were the hottest name in the mid-major ranks (Bill). I understand things have changed with coaching salaries and so forth, but can we at least try to get back to that? Hiring a coach with that kind of background is like landing a 5-star recruit. They still may not pan out, but their odds of success are much greater than the mid-tier 4-star.
 
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