FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
Clever !
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Clever !
LincolnIlliniFan
- Lincoln, IL
If Cuonzo's floor is recruiting NBA talent at CAL and them struggling a bit but still making the tournament, sign me up ASAP! Seriously, why does everyone think that just because he came from the Keady tree that he's automatically a terrible coach. I don't give two effs that he came from Keady, we had one bad apple in Weber that didn't turn out great but Weber and CM are two totally different people. CM would do wonders in recruiting in Chicago and the Metro area. He can coach and his teams play great defense. He is the only candidate I full support and trust to take over our program.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
I'm with you here, so let me follow that up with a question. Did we fully understand where the program was at, and have proper expectations for Groce after he took Webbers group to the tournament the first year?
Heard on the post game radio show the other night the mentioning of Tony Bennett. This seems like a bad idea for two reasons:
1. I don't think he would leave a program in the best conference in the country that he has QUIETLY turned into a year in and year out top 10 program.
2. I think Bennett is basically Bruce Weber on steroids; a similar coach to Bo Ryan. He brings in players who fit his system. How often do you hear about the big time recruits heading to Virginia? The Illinois fan base wouldn't like him because he doesn't bring in enough 5 stars. Same reason why Bo Ryan would've never been successful at Illinois.
Also heard a caller talk about lack of pride in the players. Does anybody feel like a big reason why the 12-13 was successful and exceeded expectations is because it took their coach being fired the previous year to instill some pride in them, and have them play inspired during that year. I know that team had a few bumps in the road, but my God they had basically the same team the previous year plus a lottery pick.
1. I don't think he would leave a program in the best conference in the country that he has QUIETLY turned into a year in and year out top 10 program.
2. I think Bennett is basically Bruce Weber on steroids; a similar coach to Bo Ryan. He brings in players who fit his system. How often do you hear about the big time recruits heading to Virginia? The Illinois fan base wouldn't like him because he doesn't bring in enough 5 stars. Same reason why Bo Ryan would've never been successful at Illinois.
Also heard a caller talk about lack of pride in the players. Does anybody feel like a big reason why the 12-13 was successful and exceeded expectations is because it took their coach being fired the previous year to instill some pride in them, and have them play inspired during that year. I know that team had a few bumps in the road, but my God they had basically the same team the previous year plus a lottery pick.
The one thing you would say is that just on resources and bone structure it's a lot easier to compare Illinois to Villanova and Ohio State than to Minnesota and Alabama. That's the advantage we start with, but from there it's about putting your best foot forward.
Why two have multiple NCAA Championships and two do not.
Why two have multiple NCAA Championships and two do not.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
I don't think this will be the perception of the program, but with Whitman being a football guy, and the resources going into the football program right now, will that change the perception of the importance of basketball at Illinois? I know that isn't the thought process here, but to outsiders and potential coaches (if the job opens up) will it look like that?
If we didn't just spend how many millions of dollars on the SFC reno, then yeah it would be something on peoples minds.
Football will, for the foreseeable future, be a bigger money maker than basketball. More revenue will be pumped into football, but it doesn't mean we wont spend on basketball. Every school with a P5 football team will spend more and make more from football than basketball (MAYBE there's 3 or 4 exceptions.) We have a history of being a basketball school, thats not going to go away just because we hire a former football player as AD and reno our 90+ year old stadium.
Wow you could literally not be more wrong.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I don't think perception is our problem at all. This might be revisionism at its finest, but I feel we had a "stuffy" reputation under RG, and while MT tried to fix that, he had his other flaws. I think Whitman was a breath of fresh air to those that knew him as soon as he was hired, and he let the whole country know that times were changin' with the Lovie hire. Combine that with the SFC renovation (every announcer has gushed over it so far) and the upcoming Memorial Stadium renovation, I think we have sent the clear message that - for the first time since, arguably, the '80s - we are putting our untapped resources into crafting a winning athletic program. We all became so down and used to what we'd been getting that not enough people stepped back and said, "wait, why isn't Illinois the best athletic program in the Big Ten (or, if you're willing to concede ground to the "traditional powers," then why aren't we consistently top 3-4 year in and year out)?"
Bennett's last class is better than anything Groce has brought in.
I don't think anyone's really saying that. Keadyball isn't fun to watch, isn't necessarily the most attractive to recruits, and might present something of a ceiling in terms of success. Nevertheless, Cuonzo has recruited several 5-stars, and Illinois itself went 37-2 playing some of the most beautiful basketball ever witnessed in that system.
We've just been burned, that's all.
Yes. Our expectations for on-court success are eminently reasonable given our consistent talent level over the past decade.
I like to imagine Illinois would be happy with "just" enormous, elite level on-court success in the absence of flashy recruiting coups. There are times I doubt that when reading this board though, I must admit. Also, as mentioned above, that's not true of Bennett. Virginia's recruiting has risen in tandem with their win totals.
:hand:
Not at all. It shows a commitment to resources and infrastructure, which any coach is going to be eager to see. Whitman will be selling upgrades or a replacement to Ubben as part of his pitch, I guarantee it, and the immediacy with which the south end zone project has gotten off the ground will lend great credibility to those discussions.
Some others have touch on it but you can't really look at the "wish list" in a vacuum. Do I think Archie Miller or some others mentioned are better coaches than Martin? Sure. But I can't help but remember the struggle recent coaches have had in mainly the Chicago scene because they weren't "from there". Groce had to basically do a caravan throughout the main schools of Chicago and he really hasn't been effective outside of Simeon.
The thing with Martin and assuming he brings Webster with him is that they have the connections in the area even if Martin is from SoIL. He still came up with and against teams from the area. Webster should still have recruiting connections in the area. Honestly there should be no school Martin is more likely to take the step to the next level than at UI. I just don't think you can discount the fact that he is both AA and from the area. Both of those things should make the first couple years much easier for him than his predecessors.
I tend to agree. While I have my doubts about the heights of his peak, I'm quite confident his floor is pretty high. I'm absolutely terrified of hiring the next mid-major-high-risk-hot-hand. So:
- Plan A: can't-miss, low risk aspirational candidates like Archie Miller, Gregg Marshall, or another highly proven guy. Lou Henson, Lon Kruger, and Bill Self all fit this profile. Guenther intentionally stepped down a weight class with Weber because he wanted a guy who would stay at Illinois. He was right about that - nobody else wanted him.
- Plan B: Cuonzo Martin
- Plan C: At this point it's just a crapshoot. People can debate names like Musselman, Keatts, etc., but who really knows.
On his Twitter Jeremy Werner said it's doubtful Archie Miller would take Illinois job.
Man I hope you're wrong but am starting to get a bad gut feeling that you might just be onto something.
LincolnIlliniFan
- Lincoln, IL
Archie Miller isn't coming here. He isn't an option so we should all just move on. He is NC ST bound by mid march
This is forcing the facts to fit the feelings rather than the feelings fit the facts.
The deduction here is fundamentally first and foremost deciding which coaches are likeliest to turn us down, making a blanket assumption that those are therefore "wins", and backdating all existing knowledge with a deterministic certainty that every hire in our history was destined for a certain result at the time.
It's an architecture to create the emotionally desired result: the feeling and conviction that Illinois is no longer capable of hiring someone who can lead us to our past level of success, and that the chosen villains of the piece are responsible. That relieves the cognitive dissonance.
It's also very poor reasoning.
Side note on Cuonzo Martin: it was really painful watching him terrorize us all those years at Purdue knowing that we could have had him. He was such a solid, fundamentally-sound player. One thing I always admired was how he developed into such a good 3 pt shooter. Think about this: he only shot 7 three pointers his first two years (he played roughly the same minutes in his Soph and Sr. years). His senior year he shot 194 threes @ 47%. That is player development.
Cuonzo Martin stats
It's no surprise that he became a coach.
Cuonzo Martin stats
It's no surprise that he became a coach.
Not if Mark Gottfried can get them playing up to their talent level down the stretch #LetsGoPack
So far that doesn't seem too likely. I did a little googling (very little) on NCSt basketball and they seem to be having the same kind of problems we are having, at least superficially. They don't seem to be playing up to their talent, bad defense, bad offense. At least that is what some people are saying. So what about this: NCSt for some reason does not fire Gottfried after this season and decides (again, for some unknown reason) to keep him. So Archie Miller comes here (again, just speculating). Then NCSt. fires Gottfried next season. Will Archie Miller do a Bill Self and abandon Illinois after just one year to head to his alleged dream job at NCSt? My head hurts from too much speculating.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
Just because a handful of people on a message board have concerns about this connection does not mean it should be augmented to "everybody".
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
1. Perhaps not, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
2. Who wouldn't want a Bo Ryan clone as a coach? I don't care about 5 stars. If Bennett made us a top 10 caliber team every year I couldn't care less if it was with bona-five stars or 5 grade schoolers!
If Bennett wants to be our coach you have a parade, give him the key to the city, and pretty much whatever else he wants.....
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
We need to avoid the fait accompli feel to each of these. Unless you can snag one of the handful of coaches in the country that can provide guaranteed success (Self, Calipari, Williams, K, Izzo, etc.), which Illinois cannot, you are inviting some level of risk with every hire. I could come up with a hundred scenarios where a coaches can fail and succeed, but to believe that it is almost pre-determined is a bridge too far.
Bingo, although I wouldn't have a plan c. Musselman and Keats would also be in plan be imo
I think the only hy that happens is he gives the young guys a lot more playing time. Current lineup isn't getting it done. Time to get the younger guys e perience
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