2017 Coaching Carousel

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#5,276      

illini80

Forgottonia
If he does well enough here to attract other job offers, that would be a very good thing.
I remember a little hand wringing after year 1, that JG was leaving and we needed to "lock him in" long term. :(

I agree. Someone leaving should be the last thing we are worried about at this point. When Self left, we felt like we had been burned twice. Since that time, we have also been burned twice. I'll choose the former scenario. :illinois:
 
#5,279      
What are the chances of Tom Crean being let go if Indiana doesn't make the tournament?

It's hard to say, I think their fanbase is pretty split on it. Their injuries this year are probably more impactful than ours were last year in terms of talent lost, IMO, and he hasn't exactly been HORRIBLE. Just majorly lacking in tournament results
 
#5,284      

illininks

Shawnee, KS
Monty Williams went 46-36 in his first season with New Orleans and made the playoffs. After the season, the team went into full rebuild mode, trading Chris Paul and David West (their two best players). They only won 21 games, but Williams kept them competitive. They won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis. Williams drew rave reviews for his coaching and mentorship of Davis. In Monty's fourth year, he made the playoffs again despite being outgunned everywhere except Power Forward in terms of talent. He was fired after that year and a lot of people thought it was unfair. He landed as an assistant to Billy Donavan in OKC and drew praise for his work there. Also, obviously, coaching for USA basketball is huge. Now he's in a key front office role with the Spurs.

He didn't win a ton of games, but Monty is generally regarded as one of the brightest up-and-coming defensive minds in the coaching community. He runs some really novel and effective defensive sets. Besides that, he's considered an extremely high character person and lauded for his relationship-building skills. People in the past have suggested that he would excel in the college game due to his personality and gift for teaching/player development. I don't know if he's actually interested, but when the rumor came out and I did some digging, it was like, "huh. That could make a lot of sense." My only concern is whether he'll be able to navigate the gray areas of college recruiting, because he sounds like a really morally upright human being. Obviously not a bad thing, and I think Groce fits into that category and does fine as a recruiter.

Wow this is an incredibly well-written, easy to read, informative post. Thanks!

After reading it I would be very intrigued/excited about Monty if he were a candidate or the hire made by JFW.

Seems like all the usual mentions of candidates would be an upgrade. I'd honestly be excited about any of them.
 
#5,286      
A friend of mine just texted me and said that Monty Williams' daughter goes to Wheaton College.
 
#5,287      

Bailey

Los Angeles
new name, why the hell not.

JB Bickerstaff

Young, respected, Big 10 ties.
 
#5,288      
Well, the HC hire after Self left did...and it's felt to this day

I agree Weber was ultimately a disaster, but I think the real mistake is that he wasn't fired after the 07-08 season when we went 16-19, and had the worst recruiting class in the Big10 coming in.
 
#5,289      

BZuppke

Plainfield
If we were to hire Williams he'd probably be out tallest coach ever. 6'8"!
 
#5,290      

KewpieNation

kbattle33 Fanboy
Columbia, MO
Monty Williams went 46-36 in his first season with New Orleans and made the playoffs. After the season, the team went into full rebuild mode, trading Chris Paul and David West (their two best players). They only won 21 games, but Williams kept them competitive. They won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis. Williams drew rave reviews for his coaching and mentorship of Davis. In Monty's fourth year, he made the playoffs again despite being outgunned everywhere except Power Forward in terms of talent. He was fired after that year and a lot of people thought it was unfair. He landed as an assistant to Billy Donavan in OKC and drew praise for his work there. Also, obviously, coaching for USA basketball is huge. Now he's in a key front office role with the Spurs.

He didn't win a ton of games, but Monty is generally regarded as one of the brightest up-and-coming defensive minds in the coaching community. He runs some really novel and effective defensive sets. Besides that, he's considered an extremely high character person and lauded for his relationship-building skills. People in the past have suggested that he would excel in the college game due to his personality and gift for teaching/player development. I don't know if he's actually interested, but when the rumor came out and I did some digging, it was like, "huh. That could make a lot of sense." My only concern is whether he'll be able to navigate the gray areas of college recruiting, because he sounds like a really morally upright human being. Obviously not a bad thing, and I think Groce fits into that category and does fine as a recruiter.

You also have to consider that the Pelicans have made some pretty questionable roster decisions for a while now. While not as bad as say the Nets or the Kings, nobody could have had a good record with that roster and front office.
 
#5,291      

The Pontiff

Chicago, IL
So, Cuonzo kind of makes the perfect rebuttal to this. He was a mid-major coach with a very similar (but inferior) resume to Keatts, and when he took the Tennessee job, with no connections to the area he immediately landed 5-star Jarnell Stokes from Memphis. Then when he went to Cal, with no West Coast connections whatsoever he immediately landed Ivan Rabb from Oakland, and then got Jaylen Brown all the way from Georgia.
According to 247, Brown had an offer from Tennessee, so Cuonzo had a pre-existing relationship with him. And given this M.O., wonder if any other Cal 2017 offers would be in play. Looking again at 247, it looks like only three players with offers from Cal are uncommitted. #11 PF Brandon McCoy, #98 C Jacob Epperson and #175 C Olivier Sarr. I think #107 Mark Smith is a fourth, but 247 doesn't show the offer yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#5,292      

Deleted member 4723

D
Guest
Probably should be categorized under "Misery Loves Company" but Clappy went off on his team today after their loss to Michigan.
 
#5,293      

EJ33

San Francisco
Monty Williams went 46-36 in his first season with New Orleans and made the playoffs. After the season, the team went into full rebuild mode, trading Chris Paul and David West (their two best players). They only won 21 games, but Williams kept them competitive. They won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis. Williams drew rave reviews for his coaching and mentorship of Davis. In Monty's fourth year, he made the playoffs again despite being outgunned everywhere except Power Forward in terms of talent. He was fired after that year and a lot of people thought it was unfair. He landed as an assistant to Billy Donavan in OKC and drew praise for his work there. Also, obviously, coaching for USA basketball is huge. Now he's in a key front office role with the Spurs.

He didn't win a ton of games, but Monty is generally regarded as one of the brightest up-and-coming defensive minds in the coaching community. He runs some really novel and effective defensive sets. Besides that, he's considered an extremely high character person and lauded for his relationship-building skills. People in the past have suggested that he would excel in the college game due to his personality and gift for teaching/player development. I don't know if he's actually interested, but when the rumor came out and I did some digging, it was like, "huh. That could make a lot of sense." My only concern is whether he'll be able to navigate the gray areas of college recruiting, because he sounds like a really morally upright human being. Obviously not a bad thing, and I think Groce fits into that category and does fine as a recruiter.

Excellent post.

His resume seems like it would be very attractive to high-level recruits.
 
#5,294      

The Pontiff

Chicago, IL
No, there's nothing supporting the argument he upgraded the programs. He has done nothing at either of his P5 stops the previous coach did not also accomplish, and his Missouri State tenure was BARELY better than Barry Hinson's in terms of peak accomplishments.
By what measure did Cuonzo upgrade Tennessee from Bruce Pearl? He wasn't even close to what Pearl achieved there on the court!
It's definitely a fair statement to say that Cuonzo didn't inherit dumpster fires, such as what Keatts did at UNCW. And in the case of Cal, he took over a pretty decent program that was at the helm of a future Hall of Famer. Still, even Mike Montgomery couldn't get them out of the first weekend and in that last season, could only get them to the NIT. Very Lou Henson-ish as his swan song. With where that program seem to be heading, probably best that he did retire.

As for Tennessee, I don't think there's an argument Pearl took Tennessee men's basketball to heights not seen since Ray Mears. The issue with Pearl though is that last season was very Bruce Weber-ish as far as last seasons. That 2010-11 squad won the Pre-Season NIT, got as high as #7 but then Pearl got suspended mid-season and by the time he got back, the team was in turmoil. Somehow at 19-14, they made the tournament only to get shell-lacked by Michigan by 30 points. Definitely a fall from grace compared to the previous season's Elite 8 appearance.

By the way, if measuring the success of a coach is whether he achieves something the preceding coach didn't, then good luck to those coaches taking over for Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc. By this measure, Michael White is probably screwed at Florida, and Sean Miller has a long way to go to upgrade Arizona.
 
#5,295      
By the way, if measuring the success of a coach is whether he achieves something the preceding coach didn't, then good luck to those coaches taking over for Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc. By this measure, Michael White is probably screwed at Florida, and Sean Miller has a long way to go to upgrade Arizona.

I don't envy any coach who has to take over at any of those posts for that reason, fans will naturally compare to a predecessor. But my point was never to say Cuonzo wasn't successful at his stops, simply that the claim that he is a program-builder or upgraded the programs isn't clearly supported by the achievements he's had compared to predecessors. He's done a solid job at all of those posts, but we haven't really seen him elevate a program.

That said, Illinois would easily be the worst job he'll have taken relative to conference peers at the time of his arrival, so I guess we'd see how that would play out should he come here.
 
#5,296      

peace davids

Colorado
Always nice when the arch rival is sucking it up after their expectations were sky high. But, I do love Tom Crean's brutal honesty compared to our coach. First time I heard one of Crean's press conference and he took accountability that it ultimately falls on him. When has Groce ever done that? Does anyone even re-count a time he held himself responsible for his team's failures?

When Groce takes responsibility in a press conference, it is almost always followed up by a "but".

It's my fault, but the guys gotta make shots. It falls on me, but Malcolm and Tracy need to step up and play like seniors. Blah Blah Blah.
 
#5,297      

MrOizo

Chicago
Always nice when the arch rival is sucking it up after their expectations were sky high. But, I do love Tom Crean's brutal honesty compared to our coach. First time I heard one of Crean's press conference and he took accountability that it ultimately falls on him. When has Groce ever done that? Does anyone even re-count a time he held himself responsible for his team's failures?
I was listening a bit after a recent game and Groce was saying to hold him accountable, he has thick skin and can take it. Said we should all simply be rooting for these players who are giving their all. He said all the right things.
 
#5,298      

The Pontiff

Chicago, IL
I don't envy any coach who has to take over at any of those posts for that reason, fans will naturally compare to a predecessor. But my point was never to say Cuonzo wasn't successful at his stops, simply that the claim that he is a program-builder or upgraded the programs isn't clearly supported by the achievements he's had compared to predecessors. He's done a solid job at all of those posts, but we haven't really seen him elevate a program.

That said, Illinois would easily be the worst job he'll have taken relative to conference peers at the time of his arrival, so I guess we'd see how that would play out should he come here.

Very true and I agree with your overall assessment. However, I do think we should be careful in utilizing "achievements" to define an era. For instance, Weber took Illinois to the championship game, an achievement that was not even remotely approached by his predecessor. However, seeing how things ended for Weber, no sane person would say he upgraded the Illinois program over Self. By the end of the Weber era, it was clear that the Illinois trajectory was going the wrong way.

With Martin, I do think you have a point, in that he didn't take Tennessee to new levels beyond Pearl and it's arguable that Tennessee's issues during Pearl's last season were of the non-basketball variety (which bled over to the basketball results), meaning he wasn't going to be fired for performance if he hadn't lied. So like Groce did his first year, Martin wasn't facing a basketball rebuilding job so much as just putting the Pearl fiasco behind them. Now with Cal, the jury's still out as Montgomery was fairly mediocre there and it would only take a S16 to out-achieve him.
 
#5,299      
By the way, if measuring the success of a coach is whether he achieves something the preceding coach didn't, then good luck to those coaches taking over for Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc. By this measure, Michael White is probably screwed at Florida, and Sean Miller has a long way to go to upgrade Arizona.

Never wanna be the guy who follows the guy. Hardly ever works out well. Luckily for us we won't have that problem.
 
#5,300      
When Groce takes responsibility in a press conference, it is almost always followed up by a "but".

The Word BUT is used to introduce something contrasting that has always been metioned.

Thanks fror your post- Respect :illinois:
 
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