mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
I don't know why people want to settle for Plan D just to get rid of the current guy.
Because the current guy is the worst coach in the B1G, and the Plan D guy would be way better than that.
I don't know why people want to settle for Plan D just to get rid of the current guy.
If you don't have the right hire, and you let Groce stay another year and this class comes in and is even close to what is advertised, the job is more attractive for the next guy coming in if you have to pull the trigger.
Problem with that thought is that you "admittedly caught lightning in a bottle" with Lovie. If you don't have that typeo of home run hire, then where are you? If you have a home run hire, and you want to pull the trigger, fine. Personally, none of the names quoted on this site are home run hires or realistic options, in my opinion. That being said, hiring a middle of the road guy does nothing for Illinois. If anything it solidifies your brand as mediocre. If you don't have the right hire, and you let Groce stay another year and this class comes in and is even close to what is advertised, the job is more attractive for the next guy coming in if you have to pull the trigger. And if it is worse, then you are able to do a total rebuild next year and not wait the obligatory 3-5 years to fire the "middle of the road guy" you have indicated would be acceptable. Whitman must get this one right. If he is not sure, he should hold his powder until he is.
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I might be in VAIllini's camp. The explanations that I've seen for why you "have to" extend seem to be 1) that's the way it's done, and 2) it would kill recruiting. I'm not pursuaded that recruits know or care, and naturally bristle when people tell me that something has to be done a certain way because that's what people do.He doesn't understand there is no "one more year" option. We've all tried explaining that choosing to not move on from Groce IS another long term commitment because he will have to be extended to be able to recruit. I give up.
He doesn't understand there is no "one more year" option. We've all tried explaining that choosing to not move on from Groce IS another long term commitment because he will have to be extended to be able to recruit. I give up.
I might be in VAIllini's camp. The explanations that I've seen for why you "have to" extend seem to be 1) that's the way it's done, and 2) it would kill recruiting. I'm not pursuaded that recruits know or care, and naturally bristle when people tell me that something has to be done a certain way because that's what people do.
If we think we've got a good line on Hoiberg, but he's waiting to see what the Bulls do at the end of the season, then--if the end of the season goes well for the Illini-- I might not be bothered if there is no "fire" decision until after the NBA season.
I might be in VAIllini's camp. The explanations that I've seen for why you "have to" extend seem to be 1) that's the way it's done, and 2) it would kill recruiting. I'm not pursuaded that recruits know or care, and naturally bristle when people tell me that something has to be done a certain way because that's what people do.
Well, I think you do extend him but I don't think that locks you in "long term". You can probably re-work the contract to reduce the buyout since Groce wouldn't have any leverage to reject that.
But that's money (albeit maybe not a lot) that could be used for something, anything else. I know you're on the same side as me on this so I'm not going to argue the point. His scenario just flat out makes no sense.
My argument has nothing to do with extensions or recruiting - it is addressing this wholly imagined scenario where if we wait, we will somehow have access to better candidates.
Either Groce will improve upon this year's results and we won't be making a hire at all, or he'll fail again and our job will be even less appealing.
So if you're okay with waiting "one more year" then you had better be okay with 1) possibly waiting 2-3 more years and also 2) thinking that someone who we can't currently get will be gettable after another year of no tourney and another season of fan apathy.
They do make sense. I'd rather keep Groce and take an additional year to line up the coach we think can carry us forward, than hire in plan D or E and be right back where we are now in 3 years. How does THAT make sense?
Well, maybe people have that impression of JW because that is exactly what he did on the football side.I have seen this argument over and over again from many people, that we can line up the next coach before we fire Groce. Truth is that until you fire a coach and start negotiating, you do not know who the new coach will be. If that was the case, why wouldn't every school do that? Especially schools with more resources and connections and larger network?
Whitman seems like a young promising AD, but he is no 007 with a magic wand. We portray Illinois as the only smart school whereas everyone else is dumb. We always have a secret weapon. A few months ago it was Fletch, our secret weapon who was going to transform this team into kings of strength and athleticism. Now it is Whitman, who will outsmart everyone and secure a homerun coach behind everyone's back before he even fires Groce.
Whitman is young enough and smart enough to want to have a long career as an AD. He knows that you do not burn bridges in this profession.
Well, maybe people have that impression of JW because that is exactly what he did on the football side.
I might be in VAIllini's camp. The explanations that I've seen for why you "have to" extend seem to be 1) that's the way it's done, and 2) it would kill recruiting. I'm not pursuaded that recruits know or care, and naturally bristle when people tell me that something has to be done a certain way because that's what people do.
He doesn't understand there is no "one more year" option. We've all tried explaining that choosing to not move on from Groce IS another long term commitment because he will have to be extended to be able to recruit. I give up.
Who are all these homerun hires that we can't get this year but can next year? These arguments are ridiculous.
If Groce somehow stays another year, without an extension, recruiting dies. Everyone knows he won't be there in a year. Sure you might keep your 17 class. You are almost guaranteed to lose at least 1-2 transfers. Your rebuild is starting next year with so many seniors gone this year.
Keeping Groce guarantees that Whitman got this one wrong.
While it might not be kosher to go after a guy who is currently coaching, what's to stop JW from going after someone who is not currently a head coach, such as Monty or even Bilas.And as I have said many times, that was an opportunistic hire, i.e., a coach without a job. Unless he constantly plans to do so, almost every name mentioned currently has a job.
I am not making a judgment on who is a homerun hire and who isnt.
While it might not be kosher to go after a guy who is currently coaching, what's to stop JW from going after someone who is not currently a head coach, such as Monty or even Bilas.
Everyone here keeps trying to put this situation in a box whereas JW may be thinking outside the box. Like he has already done twice now with our FB and VB hires.
No one knows what JW is going to do and making definitive statements that he is going to do this or that or he won't do something because it's never been done before is all just pure guesses and nothing more. Trying to portray it as fact doesn't change anything. It's still just speculation, just like the people who are trying to speculate that there might be a scenario where Groce is still here next year.
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The kids who transfer, likely will whether he stays or goes. You ask who are all the home run hires we cant get, I said, if you get one, pull the trigger. If you dont get one, then you dont pull the trigger. I am not making a judgment on who is a homerun hire and who isnt. I was responding to the premise that it would be okay to take a middle of the road guy instead of sticking with Groce. If anything, that is kicking the can down the road, because you are settling again for womeone who is not your first choice. And for the argument about not being able to negotiate with a coach until their season is done, while technically correct, discussions with agents through back channels goes on all the time. You can basically know if a deal can be done and if it will be done before ever meeting with someone.
In all honesty, you should start getting specific about how these scenarios play out, because without actual candidates this just sounds like baseless, magical thinking.
In all honesty, you should start getting specific about how these scenarios play out, because without actual candidates this just sounds like baseless, magical thinking.
Your argument makes no sense. So it's ok to keep kicking the can down the road until you think you can get the "right" guy?
If you want specifics, i will start with Bennett. Record is fine but style of play is horrible and you see he is maxing out talent. We talk about winning big on this board and I don't count him as a big winner. His teams plays great defense and boring basketball and you will not attract the types of recruits/athletes that you need to be in discussions to win Big Ten Championships and in the hunt for the Final Four every 4-8 years.
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Also, let me know how your middle of the road guy is better than keeping Groce one more year. Even if you extend Groce, you only extend him two years. The buyout is much less than paying off his last year and then being obligated for paying your middle of the road guy for 5 years if he doesn't work out. I am not in this to find a "bridge guy." I would rather bite the bullet for a year and roll dice on next year. No guarantees, but this year's crop is doing nothing for me. Also, waiting for theo inevitable small school tourney run coach just puts us right back in the mix for the type of coach we currently have.
Great point, Wisconsin never won a B1G championship playing that type of....wait, never mind.
Please look at the last 3 years of WeberBall at Illinois and tell me why this idea should hold water.