2017 Coaching Carousel

EJ33 · Mar 5, 2017

FiveStar said:
https://illiniboard.com/story/2017/3/5/stop-staying-it/

Arricle from Robert. Echoes some of points about what happened with Weber and how Groce has followed.

And yet, in attempting to save his next job, Bruce Weber continues to lie about his tenure at Illinois. He continues to claim he presided over our "best nine-year run". It's just not true.

FAKE NEWS.

Thank you Robert.

ChrisNMattoon · Mar 5, 2017

Ive been saying it for a while, Whitman isn't going to fire him unless the pressure became so great it was impossible not to. And it's not that yet. Depressing. At least another year of no NCAA, next year the excuse will be they are too young, need time to develop, got better as season went on, more pieces coming...blah blah blah... The days of Illini basketball are over. We are now what Penn St. has been. Have some good players, pull a few upsets from time to time, mostly at home and be borderline NCAA/NIT team year in and year out. But hey....Groce is a good guy so .....

CAHALL15 · Mar 5, 2017

DarrenTheKramericaIntern said:
Not saying I am advocating Cuonzo Martin as the answer, but I've seen reference to Cal's first round flameout vs Hawaii last year. Cal was a little behind the 8 ball that game with its starting backcourt out due to injury.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2016/03/21/cal-basketball-crash-whats-next/

I'll say the same thing I've said when others bring this up: I'm more interested in results rather than excuses. They had a top 3 NBA pick playing in addition to Rabb, their other MCDAA and probable future NBA player. Even Martin said there were no excuses in losing. Hawaii had zero 4 or 5 star players on that team. Actually, according to ESPN recruiting, they had two 3 star players.

If we start the excuses game then we can forgive the loss at Rutgers because it was their senior day and we just had a big win. We can forgive Groce for not making the tournament the past few years because of Tracy's injuries. We can forgive ________(fill in the blank) because _______(fill in the blank).

Illwinsagain · Mar 5, 2017

Tron2010 said:
+1 JW has no home run hire. And who would want to come here? Names like Sean Miller, Archie Miller, or the Drew brothers are comical. They ARE NOT COMING HERE! If the choice is between Martin and Keatts then it will be more of the same. We are complaining about Groce being a terrible"x's and o's" coach. Have we not watched Martin's coaching abilities the last 2 weeks??? As for Keatts, he's as unproven as Groce was when we hired him. I'm frustrated, like everyone else, but unless there is a home run hire we risk losing quality recruits amd bringing in someone that is no better or more proven than what we currently have. It sucks.

Honestly, I would take a solid double right now. The current batter is striking out a lot!

Jeffcobrad · Mar 5, 2017

I'm not advocating for Coach Groce but this team is where they should be. 1 better PG who still isn't a scorer..yet. 2 SG play is still hot/cold and very inconsistent.3 SF while Hill is a good player, not good enough to carry a team a whole season.4 PF Black/Finke are nice BIG10 players but Finke is not very good at defense.5 C one bright spot but no proven backup when he goes out. Coaching could be better and when you add average coaching plus middle of the pack talent well you end up what we have. Love these kids fight and passion for the U of I but until better scorers start putting on the uniform this is what Illini basketball will be....good coach or average coach.

Cheez · Mar 5, 2017

Kim Anderson has stepped down as head coach of Missouri

MakesNoSense · Mar 5, 2017

Roundball Shaman said:
This is a crucial moment and opportunity in Illini Basketball history to evaluate what we are as a program and where we want to go. Most everyone on this board gets that the Illini have a rich and special history and we want to see a high level of success once again. But there has been a long-time disconnect between Illini fans and the outside world. The outside world sees the U of I as just another school if they see it at all. This even applies to most people around the Chicago and Metro East St. Louis areas. And there is a generational gap between older Illini fans who know what this program was and should be, and talented 18 year-olds coming along who can choose to go anywhere in the country they want. They might only judge their future on how much bling or TV time a location has and how quickly they can get to the next level. Most of these young men might think of Illinois as just a place where they grow corn. And there is likely the feeling that Champaign, Illinois is not exactly the most exciting place for an 18 year old to want to be. How does this all change? By making Illini Basketball unique. By making it special. By making it a place where a talented player WANTS to come. Make it a place where there is so much talent wanting to come that you’ll have to turn them away. Make it a place where an Illini coach does not have to come begging with hat-in-hand and hoping to get lucky once in a while to bag a superior talent, but a place synonymous with superior talent where a young talent yearns to play.

How do you do it? Yes, you start with the coach. But we’ve all seen places where once the name coach leaves, the program regresses or dies. So this can never be just about the coach. It must be about the ENTIRE CULTURE. Make Illinois the most special place a baller can come. Create a superior vision and atmosphere. Make it a place where a young man knows his basketball talent will grow, and that he will learn how to maximize his talents with superior business, marketing, and public relations skills. And most of all, make it a place where a young man knows he will leave a much better person for having been there. Make the Illini Basketball Culture synonymous with the classiest, highest integrity, top place to learn how to win the right way and become a better man in the process. Win with class and integrity. Superior basketball now and a superior person when they leave.

Everyone involved can have a role in creating this new culture. But it must start with VISION and RESOLVE AT THE TOP to make it happen. Make the Illini Basketball Culture the Best in Breed. Make it bigger than any one coach, or any group of recruits. Make the entire basketball culture and experience so superior that the won-loss record cannot help but become of consistent blue blood level and without any stain of corruption or yearly begging for relevance. I don’t want to put the Illini on the level of North Carolina, Kentucky, Duke, or Kansas. I want it ABOVE that level. And I don’t mean this in an arrogant sense. I’m talking about making Champaign a place and culture that is the Basketball Mecca that the Home of March Madness should be. Turn the Illini into a place where any 17 year old anywhere in the world knows is the MOST COOL PLACE in the world to play ball and go to school. And they will learn to love the cornfields as much as we do. This is what I've always wanted for Illinois basketball. The time is now and the path is there if they have the vision to take it.

I'm a fan, but the program has never been what this post wants to be. Maybe we just try first to get what we are,a very good top 20 program.

Illwinsagain · Mar 5, 2017

MrOizo said:
Agree 100%

- Your odds of having the next great coach at Illinois are 0% if you stick with Groce.
- Your odds of having the next great coach at Illinois based on next year's crop of coaching prospects vs. this year's prospects is likely not appreciably different.

Another year of data would be helpful, but it would also take some candidates off the market that could be "the next big thing". Sure, it will put a few other "next big thing" candidates out there, but it's not likely that they will be better (or that we will beat out others for them). In fact, our only real competition currently for a coach is NC State. It could be worse next year.

Finally, if we move on now and miss we will be one step closer to our next coaching switch. Seriously. More attempts at hiring the right coach = more likelihood that you find the right one.

Time to make a move.

Good point, I wish the "save JG" group (of which I am an alumnus) would consider this.

dweebs19 · Mar 5, 2017

I guess Cuonzo is going to Mizzou

Jeffcobrad · Mar 5, 2017

You could have Coach K or any coach of your choice and they might have a few more wins but the first thing they would do after the season is recruit better athletes and scorers. Illinios is not a place right now those type of players are looking for. Groce did a good job on hitting an under the radar SG and convinced a 5* C to stay home but he needs the Smith kid to get where he needs to be. Those 3 would be upgrades of what he has and if Williams and Pickett continue to climb then he may have something.

Illwinsagain · Mar 5, 2017

Obelix said:
The premise that JW can "find" those candidates before he fires Groce, so if he he does not, he could wait another year and then fire him, is a faulty one IMO as well. Unless you fire a coach, you do not know who you will get. If that was possible, as I have said multiple times, schools with a lot more resources, boosters, and networking connections (e.g., UCLA, Oregon, OK State) would have done the same and avoided embarrassing searches. Whitman is a promising AD, but he is no magician, neither is he smarter than everyone else. But he is smart enough to know that he will not have a career in this profession by burning bridges and not following the right protocol (both for the current coach and new one).

IF Whitman decides on to keep Groce, it would mean that he has decided to give another try to Groce, so Groce would certainly be here for at least one more year. It would not mean that he has decided to keep Groce one more year, but would surely fire him next year when in the background works a deal with a coach behind everyone's back. IF he decides to fire Groce, it would mean that he has decided to make a change and take his chances trying to find another coach once that happens, get a search going.

There are currently chances for both happening, either scenario would not surprise me. People are trying to convince themselves that the scenario that they want, is the one that is guaranteed to happen.

Actually, I would guess that he is smarter than just about everyone else. Of course, that does not mean he is a better AD. :thumb:

Rafale · Mar 5, 2017

MrOizo said:
Agree 100%

- Your odds of having the next great coach at Illinois are 0% if you stick with Groce.

- Your odds of having the next great coach at Illinois based on next year's crop of coaching prospects vs. this year's prospects is likely not appreciably different.

Another year of data would be helpful, but it would also take some candidates off the market that could be "the next big thing". Sure, it will put a few other "next big thing" candidates out there, but it's not likely that they will be better (or that we will beat out others for them). In fact, our only real competition currently for a coach is NC State. It could be worse next year.

Finally, if we move on now and miss we will be one step closer to our next coaching switch. Seriously. More attempts at hiring the right coach = more likelihood that you find the right one.

Time to make a move.

This makes a lot of sense. Waiting for another year accomplishes nothing. Next year's team without Hill unlikely to be as successful as this year's with Groce at the helm. Again, need someone who can recruit Chicago. If Groce had been able to get just a few of the great Chicago players who went to Duke, Kentucky, Ohio St., Wisconsin, etc, he would be well established by now. Obviously, winning makes recruiting a lot easier, but it all starts with the coach and his reputation.

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EJ33 · Mar 5, 2017

per Evan Daniels

Who will Missouri target? California head coach Cuonzo Martin is at/near the top of their wish list, according to multiple sources.

We may get to find out how well Cuonzo can recruit the Midwest.

MadSeason · Mar 5, 2017

Attendance has dropped by 2000 a game since Groce took over. From 15,000 to 13,000 per game. I cannot imagine that the erosion won't continue if Groce stays.

I think JW has to make a move

StateFarmCenter · Mar 5, 2017

No matter what you think of Cuonzo's coaching, having him at Mizzou and Ford at St Louis is not good at all for us.

DMan42 · Mar 5, 2017

StateFarmCenter said:
No matter what you think of Cuonzo's coaching, having him at Mizzou and Ford at St Louis is not good at all for us.

Nope. Especially when Liddell and Hargrove are two of the bigger nearby recruits available in the next few years.

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FatGreg · Mar 5, 2017

StateFarmCenter said:
No matter what you think of Cuonzo's coaching, having him at Mizzou and Ford at St Louis is not good at all for us.

Agreed. If that shakes out and IU pulls, say, Archie Miller, we'll be up against it in recruiting.

cam · Mar 5, 2017

DMan42 said:
Nope. Especially when Liddell and Hargrove are two of the bigger nearby recruits available in the next few years.

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I think if Groce stays and you have Tillmon, Pickett and possibly Mark Smith on the team you have a great chance to get them. Yesterday was a disaster and I am still upset about it but with nice talent coming in I think we are in good shape. Mark Smith becomes a critical recruit

UI07 · Mar 5, 2017

A name that I haven't seen mentioned is Joe Dooley.

He is a former long time Bill Self asst at Kansas, and now head coach at Florida Gulf Coast. Has led FGCU to the Tournament the last 2 years and his team is 26-7 this year with 3 of their 7 losses against Florida, Baylor, and Michigan St.

He is not a splash, but their is a lot of potential there I believe.

Illwinsagain · Mar 5, 2017

cam said:
I think if Groce stays and you have Tillmon, Pickett and possibly Mark Smith on the team you have a great chance to get them. Yesterday was a disaster and I am still upset about it but with nice talent coming in I think we are in good shape. Mark Smith becomes a critical recruit

I have no idea if this is true, but having an unranked Spring signee as a critical recruit does not comfort me. The program should not be in such a position. I get JT being critical, borderline MCDAA center.

By the way, I do realize that Smith has been under the radar, former baseball commit, not a lot of AAU. Should his "true" ranking be in the 60's or 70's? He may be fantastic, but, starting next year, we will have a lot of PG/SG.

ILLHangOut · Mar 5, 2017

Cheez said:
Kim Anderson has stepped down as head coach of Missouri

Good. Hopefully they can save us from making a Cuonzo mistake.

Soxfreak64 · Mar 5, 2017

Karl Welzein said:
Groce will be back.

Great to hear from you again Karl. Shame it's not what most of us wanted to hear.

ILLHangOut · Mar 5, 2017

StateFarmCenter said:
No matter what you think of Cuonzo's coaching, having him at Mizzou and Ford at St Louis is not good at all for us.

We should only need 3-4 players per year. There are plenty to go around. Over the last 5 years how many recruits would we have lost to Missouri had Cuonzo been there?

If Groce's recruiting success relies on the relative weakness of other schools he's in a losing position regardless.

Goldtop · Mar 5, 2017

ILLHangOut said:
If Groce's recruiting success relies on the relative weakness of other schools he's in a losing position regardless.

:thumb:

MrOizo · Mar 5, 2017

Jeffcobrad said:
I'm not advocating for Coach Groce but this team is where they should be. 1 better PG who still isn't a scorer..yet. 2 SG play is still hot/cold and very inconsistent.3 SF while Hill is a good player, not good enough to carry a team a whole season.4 PF Black/Finke are nice BIG10 players but Finke is not very good at defense.5 C one bright spot but no proven backup when he goes out. Coaching could be better and when you add average coaching plus middle of the pack talent well you end up what we have. Love these kids fight and passion for the U of I but until better scorers start putting on the uniform this is what Illini basketball will be....good coach or average coach.

But this is year 5 and Groce recruited these guys. He can't have it both ways. The recruiting rankings say we are more talented than most opponents in the big ten. This staff has to own this unprecedented streak without an NCAA tourney trip.