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2023 Chicago White Sox
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Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Add Graveman to Astros.
Yes, conditioning has been a problem for years. And the other big problem they’ve done nothing about? They have very few guys who can field the baseball. That has been the case for a long time now.
Speaking about the identity of a ball club... defense used to be synonymous with the White Sox when they had that great run from the 1950s to the late ‘60s. Those guys could always throw some real glove at you. But in the years since then, defense has just not been a priority as much as finding ball thumpers who seem to strike out a lot... and pitchers who love to throw gopher balls.
The Sox always had a great center fielder and shortstop and second baseman... and often the third and first basemen with the glove. Sox have that great center field now but not the other pieces, nor at catcher. Sox catchers never throw runners out anymore.
The fans can see that. We have for a long time. But Management always seems to have ‘other’ ideas.
The thing about Abreu? He didn't feel Management respected him. He said so after he signed with the 'Stros. Fans and his teammates loved him.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
To summarize moves made this week by 7/28 4PM:
1) Giolito and Lopez to Angels for catcher prospect Quero (probably looking like 2025 starter if all goes well) and pitching prospect Bush
2) Lynn and Kelly to Dodgers for OF Trayce Thompson (welcome back) and pitcher prospects Nastrini (the so called headliner in deal) and Leasure
3) Graveman to Astros for catcher Korey Lee (he might see some playing time this year for Sox, especially if they get rid of Grandal) - Lee may very well be positioned to be competing for starting catcher next year based on how he performs down stretch
I expect to see more in the coming days (in order of my expected likelihood of getting traded): Grandal, Middleton, Bummer, and Tim Anderson
I think others like Moncada are on block but won't generate any real interest. I also expect Andrus to get released at some point to allow Burger more opportunities at 2B.
1) Giolito and Lopez to Angels for catcher prospect Quero (probably looking like 2025 starter if all goes well) and pitching prospect Bush
2) Lynn and Kelly to Dodgers for OF Trayce Thompson (welcome back) and pitcher prospects Nastrini (the so called headliner in deal) and Leasure
3) Graveman to Astros for catcher Korey Lee (he might see some playing time this year for Sox, especially if they get rid of Grandal) - Lee may very well be positioned to be competing for starting catcher next year based on how he performs down stretch
I expect to see more in the coming days (in order of my expected likelihood of getting traded): Grandal, Middleton, Bummer, and Tim Anderson
I think others like Moncada are on block but won't generate any real interest. I also expect Andrus to get released at some point to allow Burger more opportunities at 2B.
Whatever the ball club looks like next Season – and even if they lose 100 games... they will be a better group than the one the Sox put together for 2023. The Sox this Season have played without passion or energy and like they were ‘Quiet Quitting’ to do as little as possible to just show up and get paid their millions.
The Sox Team of 2023 disgraced themselves and disrespected Sox fans. We Sox fans have enough trouble putting up with Sox Management. We don’t need the Ball Club to quit on us, too.
Give me young and hungry ballplayers trying to get better that lose 100 games instead of bunch of overpaid veterans who don’t seem to want to be on the field together.
This is the most activity this thread has seen in years!
After the trade deadline here’s hoping Grifol and upper management do a little ‘splainin to loyal fans like us.
After the trade deadline here’s hoping Grifol and upper management do a little ‘splainin to loyal fans like us.
Grifol's already fallen on the Sword for his employer instead of those who truly bear most of the blame ... Sox Management. (All Management will do is give us more empty corporate-speak -- as usual).
“Grifol: “I’m disappointed. This is on me. It’s simple. I sat there and I told everybody that we have high expectations here and I was going to lead us to where we want to go. And it’s not happening. I’m disappointed, but it doesn’t mean I’m going to quit, that I’m going to stop working’.”
No Manager in the Universe could have done anything with this underachieving group of moping sourpusses. It’s a classy thing Grifol's trying to do to explain Sox failures this way but most all Sox fans know where the real blame lies.
I don’t know what he thought he was walking in to with this Sox franchise but he deserves a better chance at showing what he can do with a ballclub.
And of course, Sox fans deserve so... so... so... much better from this franchise than what we’ve been getting for most of the last 60 years.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
a complete tear down of 75% or more of the roster and then a 3 year rebuild is necessary.
this current group has under achieved now for 3 years now. For whatever reason(s) you want to postulate, its not working
time for Hahn and Williams to go also, and dont get me started about owenrship
this current group has under achieved now for 3 years now. For whatever reason(s) you want to postulate, its not working
time for Hahn and Williams to go also, and dont get me started about owenrship
That brings up a question: Has there ever been a franchise in any major sport that was able to be consistently successful when their Management sucked? Obviously it's a no-brainer that bad management relates to bad hiring and bad performance in any field of business endeavor.
One might point to the Bulls and Bears winning titles while Management sucked. But they won only because the Bulls had the GOAT and the Bears just found the open window at just the right time and then quickly fizzled out (like the 2005 Sox). But other teams in other sports... has anyone else been a big winner when their Management was bad?
It's just not easy putting any winning team on a venue of play when their Leadership is bad. And almost impossible to run any successful business that way.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Well, my wish for Jake Burger experiment at 2nd base is over. Burger sent to Marlins for Left-handed pitching prospect Jake Eder. Not aware enough about Eder to make a judgment on this move, but with how injury prone Burger is, this might be a sneaky good move. Time will tell.
He had TJ surgery in 2021. He has good stuff, but consistency has been his problem. Pretty good value for Burger I’d say, but unless a top prospect (and even then sometimes), it’s a crap shoot. Sox were certainly targeting pitching in these deals.
Well, it seems like no one on the South Side is safe from possibly finding a new zip code. Even the hot dog vendors at Gimme-My-Mortgage Field and overworked bus drivers cruising along 35th.
When the White Sox decide to clean house... they CLEAN HOUSE. (Well, Clean House except for The Guy in the big corner office that Sox fans know and lov... naw, can’t finish that sentence).
The Sox Group of 2023 was just not a good mix of talent and personalities. Veterans that have seen their best days. Younger guys still trying to figure out who they are. And pretty much a ball club looking for a personality and not finding one. At least, not a good one.
Betting on new young talent coming in via trade is the best move at this point. You don’t know what you’ll have in the coming months or years... but you already know what you HAD before. And what you had was just not good enough to be a winning or entertaining ball club.
Keep the Center Fielder. Everyone else can keep a close eye on their cellphones and keep the phone numbers of moving van companies handy.
And get those guys driving the busses on 35th Street some help as well.
When the White Sox decide to clean house... they CLEAN HOUSE. (Well, Clean House except for The Guy in the big corner office that Sox fans know and lov... naw, can’t finish that sentence).
The Sox Group of 2023 was just not a good mix of talent and personalities. Veterans that have seen their best days. Younger guys still trying to figure out who they are. And pretty much a ball club looking for a personality and not finding one. At least, not a good one.
Betting on new young talent coming in via trade is the best move at this point. You don’t know what you’ll have in the coming months or years... but you already know what you HAD before. And what you had was just not good enough to be a winning or entertaining ball club.
Keep the Center Fielder. Everyone else can keep a close eye on their cellphones and keep the phone numbers of moving van companies handy.
And get those guys driving the busses on 35th Street some help as well.
When this news broke this afternoon, one of the producers on the afternoon drive time show just said "I hate this team".
For as long as the White Sox have been in Chicago (and that’s a LONG time) Sox fans have always had a Love-Hate relationship with them.
But when I say ‘Them’ that requires some further definition. We love the Game of Baseball. We love the ‘SOX’ logo. We love almost all of the ballplayers who ever put on that sacred uniform. We love the Years 1959 and 2005. We love that they are NOT the team that plays on the Other Side of Town.
But, except for the brilliant Bill Veeck who also loved Baseball and baseball fans... Sox fans have hated Sox Ownership. All of them. Why? Because Sox ownership has been mostly clueless about how to put a good ball club on the field. And Sox ownership is notorious for being tone-deaf when it comes to the concerns of Sox fans.
How can you hate something you love? Well, it’s possible. Sox fans have done this for generations. And little has happened lately to think that will change anytime in the near future.
So, we Sox fans will carry on as we always do. We’ll love the SOX logo. We’ll love the players. We’ll love the Wins (yes, even next year they’ll get some). And even though we’d like to love Sox ownership... we’ll just tolerate it the best way we can as we always have.
And maybe some day... the White Sox will get the kind of quality ownership to match the courageous and loyal Sox fans who have stood by this troubled franchise since the day they came to town.
There’s an old song that goes, ‘It’s a Thin Line Between Love and Hate”. We Sox fans should know that well. In our case... there’s no line at all.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
I am not too worried about Cease. No doubt that he has had a rough season, but most pitchers do when they are on terrible underperforming clubs (almost like how closers always seem to pitch terrible in non-save situations). Expect him to hit a hard reset button and to come back firing on all cylinders next year. He is not going from Cy Young quality to mid-tier starter with one bad season.
My greater concern is with guys like Kopech. He has been one of the greatest disappointments in my view and never really made improvements year over year.
This team has a major player leadership void. Abreu was the heart and soul of the franchise for a number of years (in hindsight not trying to actively resign him bit the management in the butt), and nobody filled that void this year. It could be due to injuries, etc.; but this is something that needs to be addressed in offseason. Players like Robert need to step up in that regard (I do not expect TA to ever be a leader on this team, and it is possible (though unlikely) that they do not even pick up his option next year). Also, this team lacks general toughness. There have been so many soft tissue injuries over the last 5 years. I am not sure if it is this exact set of players or a general lack of conditioning program, but this needs to get addressed soon (regardless of rebuilding status). With so many of your key starters consistently injured, it is tough to build a positive team culture or win ballgames.
I think it is definitely the latter. Hahn loves making trades (buying or selling), so I think this is indicative in lack of demand for some of our rental players like Grandal. If the rental players could have been moved for anything of value, Hanh would have done it. I would not be surprised if some rental players get outrighted in the coming month to open up playing time for some youngsters. I would have loved to see a bit more movement at the deadline, but overall, I think Hahn did really well with the moves that he made --especially trying to address long-term catcher priority.
As bad as this year has been, with a couple upgrades, this team can still compete in the terrible AL Central next year. The question is if Reinsdorf will allow Hahn to spend this offseason. If not (and I expect this to be the case), then we will be looking at a near full rebuild next July. The Winter Meetings will give us a much clearer picture on how Sox leadership views the upcoming season.
In this White Sox Season of doom, it’s possible the franchise will challenge the worst yearly team record they’ve ever had. Just about the only point of interest for the rest of the Season as they play out the string is – how will this year rank in Sox history?
1931 - Won 56 Lost 97
1932 - Won 49 Lost 102
1948 - Won 51 Lost 101
1970 - Won 56 Lost 106
At their current pace, the Sox would win about 64 games this year. But that was based on the pace with the old roster. With the current roster now depleted... any wins now will be hard to come by.
We Sox fans sure had other ideas and plans for this Summer of ‘23 Season. Like maybe winning the Division and making the Playoffs. And while we should never give up on such hopes in our hearts... our minds tell is that right now it’s about what kind of White Sox history will be made as the sharp winds of October come around.
But by then... we’re all smart enough to have switched our total concern and interest to Illini Football and Basketball. Where much better things are in store. And no 'rebuild' is necessary.
If this isn't representative of how the White Sox season has gone, I don't know what else would:
Umpire must have been a fight referee in the past. He just squared them up and stepped back. Teammates were worthless.
Anderson squares up, then promptly gets put on the canvas. Not too many baseball punches land, but Ramirez's caught TA flush. The commissioner is going to run out of ink when issuing all of the fines and suspensions.
Only losing the game in the 11th inning would be more representative of a year like this. Tito Landrum coming out of retirement and hitting a walk-off homerun.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Watching the game Saturday night, this is almost all I could think of, considering how pathetic the punches were thrown (Ramirez was lucky not to break his hand).
I felt like Randy Quaid needing to be restrained.
I felt like Randy Quaid needing to be restrained.
The good news in this incident is that Anderson actually showed a little life for change this season. Perhaps it was done in an unproductive way that just served to annoy the opposition... but a bit of passion it was. Or...
Or maybe, it was something else. Maybe he was showing frustration that the club did not move him before the trading deadline and he was showing his displeasure on not finding a new address.
And that's been a problem with Tim... trying to figure out where his head is and what his motives are. Maybe his teammates have a clue on what he's thinking, or maybe they are puzzled as well.
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