2023 Chicago White Sox

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#153      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
They talked about this on the Score today and someone texted in who said they used to work security at GRate and the UC said that all someone had to do was say they had a metal hip or knee in this situation and the security guards would let them in without confirming if they actually had that.
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With the White Sox as a baseball operation being dysfunctional and an embarrassment for most of the last 50 years.. why wound anybody think that the Sox would have a reliable and useful system of security? Fact is, they’ve been damned lucky over the years that more serious things haven’t happened.

Sox Ownership is either deliberately or by their innate incompetence ruining any future the Sox have in Chicago. And most likely, is it the former.

I’ll say it again. We Sox fans deserve much better than what we’ve been getting from this franchise (and that includes our fathers and grandfathers).
 
#155      

hiberto

H
hiberto
Illinicpa14 said:
Chris Getz…SMH doesn’t need any further discussion just sad
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organization continues to misstep at every chance ala northwestern. just like when hiring la russa, no due diligence in conducting a search with other candidates. i'm a cubs fan but do admit that sox fans deserve better than what they are seeing happen on the southside
 
#156      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
hiberto said:
organization continues to misstep at every chance...
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Business organizations love employees who are ‘Yes People’. Just always agree with The Boss and stroke his or her ego and you’ll go far in that organization. The problem with that is that Yes-People are rarely the right persons for their jobs. In fact, usually they are some of the worst.

The Owner of the Nashvil... I mean, Chicago White Sox is notorious for hiring and retaining Yes People. Or in his way of thinking... ‘Loyal’. Many owners of businesses always want to believe that they are the smartest persons in the room. So they never question their own judgment and are oblivious to the true health of their organization. So this is with the Sox Owner for the past 40-plus years.

Fans always get little to no consideration in the whole deal. The sports franchise is the personal toy of the Owner... and these owners keep findings ways to make sure we remember that.
 
#157      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Roundball Sage said:
In this White Sox Season of doom, it’s possible the franchise will challenge the worst yearly team record they’ve ever had. Just about the only point of interest for the rest of the Season as they play out the string is – how will this year rank in Sox history?

1931 - Won 56 Lost 97
1932 - Won 49 Lost 102
1948 - Won 51 Lost 101
1970 - Won 56 Lost 106
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White Sox (Regretable) History Watch...

White Sox are currently 53-86. They are playing about .333 ball in the second half. Projecting that pace for the remainder of the way, the White Sox will win 61 games for this (lost and embarassing) season. That would put the Sox right about 100 losses for the season. One of the worst years in the Sox long history.

BUT... the Owner is banking his cash(!). He is looking to strong-arm the State of Illinois into a building a new ball park. But this may just a smokescreen to cover an agenda already agreed-upon to move the franchise away from Chicago.

Chicago no longer has a great reputation Nationally any more with a great many folks... including much of the business community. Not seen as the City of Broad Shoulders but of Bad (Sports Franchise) Owners.

And a (once) great sports franchise that could hardly have treated its loyal fan base much worse for the last 40 years.
 
#159      

Roundball Sage

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Roundball Sage
SeattleSlim said:
The more I read your posts, the more I’m inclined to agree. I don’t want to, but …
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There may be Sox fans that are as passionate as I am (was?)... but there is likely no one that is (was) more passionate than I. But 'Reality' kept butting in to my understanding over the years of what has been going on with this franchise since the Sox truly Greatest Era ended in 1968. After that year it became a series of really bad Sox ownership groups which continues to this day. And one really lucky year that we actually won somthing big.

A great many Sox fans these days are re-thinking about their fandom and future relationship with this franchise. And that being a sports fan is supposed to be fun and not work and just aggravating.

Whatever happens in the future... nobody can take away Luke and Luis and Nellie and Dick and Frank and Paulie and Mark and Jose... those kind of Sox players.
And the good times that we Sox fans have found along the way whenever we could.

Thanks for being open-minded.
 
#160      

SKane

SKane
Tennessee
SKane
I'll add Don Buford to your list - a really solid player who started his career with the White Sox.
 
#161      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
SKane said:
I'll add Don Buford to your list - a really solid player who started his career with the White Sox.
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Yes, he was good. There's so many good solid Sox players over the years that could be named... Minnie... Jim Landis... Ken Berry... Tommy John... Tommy Agee... Bill Melton... Goose Gossage... Black Jack... Chris Sale...
 
#162      

SeattleSlim

S
SeattleSlim
I miss Bob Elson’s game calls, his warm demeanor, and the way he’d pull you in with descriptive commentary on players like Walter “No Neck” Williams.
 
#163      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
SeattleSlim said:
I miss Bob Elson’s game calls, his warm demeanor, and the way he’d pull you in with descriptive commentary on players like Walter “No Neck” Williams.
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Elson was outstanding. He is probably the best Sox broadcaster they have ever had (sorry Harry... sorry Steve and Jason). Elson could paint a picture with words like a good sports writers used to do in the newspapers. He was knowledgeable, classy, professional... yet not dry or boring. The kind of sports announcer that we just don’t have any more. And he had a pleasant voice that you could listen to without getting tired of it (sorry Brickhouse... sorry Harry – again).

Jason is a fine broadcaster but sometime he gets lost in the weeds with his banter with Stone. I actually prefer Jason at football and basketball than baseball.

Harry was fine but after a while his ego and bombast got to be too much. Besides, he was always a Cardinal at heart... even when he went to the dark side North of Madison Street.

Elson broacast the Sox during a time when the Sox ruled Chicago.
 
#164      

splitter

splitter
and not Nebraska
splitter
Jerry is not going to sell, but maybe he would be willing to partner with someone to build his idea of a new stadium.
Have it finished by the time the current lease runs out. On the southside near Red Line or the Metro.
 
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#165      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
splitter said:
Jerry is not going to sell, but maybe he would be willing to partner with someone to build his idea of a new stadium.
Have it finished by the time the current lease runs out. On the southside near Red Line or the Metro.
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The White Sox and Bears should each have their own stadiums next to each other (with a shared parking area) on the Southwest Side south of the Midway Airport area. Find large enough parcels in the formerly-industrial areas between Cicero Avenue and Pulaski south of the big rail yard south of 67th Street. American League baseball teams and NFL teams already use Midway Airport for their player movement.

Extend the Orange Line further south from Midway to (what used to be) the Ford City Mall area (this was already in the planning stage years ago). Have the new Orange Line terminal ending at the new Sports Complex. And upgrade Cicero Avenue and Pulaski going south from the Stevenson for faster travel times.
 
#166      

Bucktown

B
Bucktown
Roundball Sage said:
The White Sox and Bears should each have their own stadiums next to each other (with a shared parking area) on the Southwest Side south of the Midway Airport area. Find large enough parcels in the formerly-industrial areas between Cicero Avenue and Pulaski south of the big rail yard south of 67th Street. American League baseball teams and NFL teams already use Midway Airport for their player movement.

Extend the Orange Line further south from Midway to (what used to be) the Ford City Mall area (this was already in the planning stage years ago). Have the new Orange Line terminal ending at the new Sports Complex. And upgrade Cicero Avenue and Pulaski going south from the Stevenson for faster travel times.
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White Sox should buy Guaranteed Rate from the State. The City can rezone the land around the stadium for development to help the sweeten the pot. The White Sox will likely never get a better deal if a new stadium needs to be built in any City. The extra revenue from the hotel tax no longer needed by the ISFA for Guaranteed Rate bonds can be used to help add a dome to Soldier field.
 
#167      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Bucktown said:
White Sox should buy Guaranteed Rate from the State. The City can rezone the land around the stadium for development to help the sweeten the pot. The White Sox will likely never get a better deal if a new stadium needs to be built in any City. The extra revenue from the hotel tax no longer needed by the ISFA for Guaranteed Rate bonds can be used to help add a dome to Soldier field.
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That's an option for them to consider.

I have my doubts that whatever group ends up owning the White Sox has any intention of keeping the franchise on the South Side. Many people view the South Side (along the Ryan) as a failing area. And while any redevelopment in the area around 35th Street would certainly help... this could have been done in the last 30 years since The Cell/G Rate was built. And there seems to be less incentive in today's climate.

As for Soldier Field... I think ego will enter into this. The Bears want a Shiny New Thing like other franchises seek. And would it even be 'Bears Football' with a dome? What happens to 'Bears Weather'? Might be sacrilege... like putting a dome in Green Bay. 'Bears Weather' should always be part of their home field advantage.
 
#168      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Roundball Sage said:
White Sox (Regretable) History Watch...

White Sox are currently 53-86. They are playing about .333 ball in the second half. Projecting that pace for the remainder of the way, the White Sox will win 61 games for this (lost and embarassing) season. That would put the Sox right about 100 losses for the season. One of the worst years in the Sox long history.
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(The above from September 6th)

Today: White Sox are 61-99 right now. Two more losses and they hit that 61 wins on the nose!

Hmmm. 61... 61... Where have baseball fans seen that number in MLB history before? Something about that number...
 
#169      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
And so... this Season-From-deleted) finally ends. Appropriately, with a Sox player striking out to end the game. A batter missing a pitch the way the team completely missed the mark.

“We hope that next year’s a whole lot better than this year.” – Steve Stone

“I would rather smile when it’s tough... than frown.” – Jason Benetti

Can’t argue with either of those sentiments.

Over 100 losses. Disarray on the field... in the clubhouse... and in the Corporate Offices. Rumors of a future move away from the Great South Side of Chicago. A once-valued shortstop who lost his mojo. Other players who forgot how to play baseball. A rudderless team with their true leader playing all season in H-Town...

And yet another year that Sox fans did not deserve.

We Sox fans are a special breed. We love the team IN SPITE of themselves and who owns them. We find other reasons to love the Sox. And that is something really special.

And maybe some day, we’ll get a Sox team that still plays on the South Side that is truly worthy of our love and attention.
 
#170      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
I’m sorry for Jose Abreu that he won’t get that treasured trip to the World Series that he wanted so bad. That man is a warrior that gave the White Sox everything he had during his time on the South Side.

I’m NOT sorry that Cheatin’-Stros aren’t going back to the Big Games. They do not deserve it regardless of anything they accomplished on the field. They have never apologized for things they did in the past to gain wrongful advantage over others.

What they did is a karmic stain and shame on that franchise that for some of us will never be cleansed. They carry it with them into every ball park and the stench is on every pitch they throw and swing they take.

What is ‘Forgiveness’? This is something given to a perp after the perp has done these three things:

1. Apologized. A REAL apology, not some PR crap.

2. Shown (real) contrition.

3. And most imporantly, MADE AMENDS and offered restitution to the injured parties.

The Stros-Of-Woe have done none of these things.

Look,, MLB has never been totally clean. But you have to stand somewhere... and the kind of cheating they did is just not something you should look away from.

A Texas Rangers vs. whomever wins the NL will be a breath of fresh air compared to the stench of watching Houston defile the World Series again.

I’d rather watch the White Sox lose without cheating than ever see them win BY cheating. Jose Abreu has more class in his little finger than the Houston Astros entire organization has.
 
#171      

bdutts

bdutts
Houston, Texas
bdutts
Roundball Sage said:
I’m sorry for Jose Abreu that he won’t get that treasured trip to the World Series that he wanted so bad. That man is a warrior that gave the White Sox everything he had during his time on the South Side.

I’m NOT sorry that Cheatin’-Stros aren’t going back to the Big Games. They do not deserve it regardless of anything they accomplished on the field. They have never apologized for things they did in the past to gain wrongful advantage over others.

What they did is a karmic stain and shame on that franchise that for some of us will never be cleansed. They carry it with them into every ball park and the stench is on every pitch they throw and swing they take.

What is ‘Forgiveness’? This is something given to a perp after the perp has done these three things:

1. Apologized. A REAL apology, not some PR crap.

2. Shown (real) contrition.

3. And most imporantly, MADE AMENDS and offered restitution to the injured parties.

The Stros-Of-Woe have done none of these things.

Look,, MLB has never been totally clean. But you have to stand somewhere... and the kind of cheating they did is just not something you should look away from.

A Texas Rangers vs. whomever wins the NL will be a breath of fresh air compared to the stench of watching Houston defile the World Series again.

I’d rather watch the White Sox lose without cheating than ever see them win BY cheating. Jose Abreu has more class in his little finger than the Houston Astros entire organization has.
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How would they go about doing #2 and especially #3? I have a feeling that no matter what they did, people who feel the same way you do wouldn't change their feelings so why would the Astros even bother?

IMO, MLB is the one to blame for all this. They offered immunity to the players and I understand why. But MLB gave them a soft penalty and that's the real issue. If they vacated the World Series, which is what I would have done if I were commissioner, would you feel differently? Not sure if vacating was off the table as well; could have been part of the immunity agreement they gave to the players.

It's an interesting debate for sure. I live in Houston (I'm not an Astros fan - check my avatar) and last year, after they won the World Series, I had a discussion with a couple of colleagues who are Astros fans. Went something like this:

Them: Astros won the World Series. All the people who hate the Astros for cheating need to just get over it and move on. 2017 is in the past.
Me: People still have a bitter taste in their mouths about 2017 and I'm not sure it's going away any time soon. Some people will always hate the Astros for that.
Them: Well, we don't care what other fans bases think. We won in 2017 and 2022.
Me: Funny thing is, they don't care that you don't care.

I'd say as more time passes and more baseball memories are made, what the Astros did will slowly fade from memory from the majority of people.
 
#172      

SeattleSlim

S
SeattleSlim
bdutts said:
How would they go about doing #2 and especially #3? I have a feeling that no matter what they did, people who feel the same way you do wouldn't change their feelings so why would the Astros even bother?

IMO, MLB is the one to blame for all this. They offered immunity to the players and I understand why. But MLB gave them a soft penalty and that's the real issue. If they vacated the World Series, which is what I would have done if I were commissioner, would you feel differently? Not sure if vacating was off the table as well; could have been part of the immunity agreement they gave to the players.

It's an interesting debate for sure. I live in Houston (I'm not an Astros fan - check my avatar) and last year, after they won the World Series, I had a discussion with a couple of colleagues who are Astros fans. Went something like this:

Them: Astros won the World Series. All the people who hate the Astros for cheating need to just get over it and move on. 2017 is in the past.
Me: People still have a bitter taste in their mouths about 2017 and I'm not sure it's going away any time soon. Some people will always hate the Astros for that.
Them: Well, we don't care what other fans bases think. We won in 2017 and 2022.
Me: Funny thing is, they don't care that you don't care.

I'd say as more time passes and more baseball memories are made, what the Astros did will slowly fade from memory from the majority of people.
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Fade? Yeah, kind of like that Black Sox thing, huh?
 
#173      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
bdutts said:
How would they go about doing #2 and especially #3?... Them: Astros won the World Series. All the people who hate the Astros for cheating need to just get over it and move on. 2017 is in the past... I'd say as more time passes and more baseball memories are made, what the Astros did will slowly fade from memory from the majority of people.
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Most people honestly have a pretty forgiving nature. All of us make mistakes and all of us are in need of forgiveness. People would ‘forgive’ the Houston American League Ball Club if they had done these following things:

For #2: Call a press conference with EVERYBODY there — players, coaches, even the ownership. Confess that they were “over-eager” in trying to win and did things they could not have and are not proud of. And MEAN all this.

For #3: Have the organization refuse to acknowlege all the “victories” they got while cheating. And forfeit any titles or record-book gains they received as a result of these ill-gotten “victories”. Apologize to the ball clubs that were harmed on the field. Rescind and refuse any 'Amnesty'. And then...

Apologize to ALL MLB FANS around the World for what they did.

Then... and only then... can “forgiveness” be offered. And not only that... all this could be used in the future as a Teaching Moment of what can happen when lose your priorities and make winning-at-all-costs the way you do business. Should become part of every business school teaching.

To your other points...

Astros fans who want to deny and forget all this are just being cowards. They know their ball club did wrong but refuse to admit it. They are “bad sports” and losers.

And yes, as time fades... many people will forget. But not those of us who care about the integrity of how you play the game... and insuring that real Champions are only crowned the right way.

As a White Sox fan, we know the Black Sox were a stain on the sport as well. But honestly, the AL was still fairly young at the time and important lessons had not yet been learned. Clearly, the Astros learned nothing from the Black Sox Scandal.

As the saying goes... “Houston? You DO have a problem!”
 
#174      

bdutts

bdutts
Houston, Texas
bdutts
SeattleSlim said:
Fade? Yeah, kind of like that Black Sox thing, huh?
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How many people really care about it now? How many people born in the 1980s and later even know what happened? After a certain generation dies off, the Black Sox scandal will be nothing but a line in a history book that no one other perhaps White Sox fans will know (or care about).
 
#175      

bdutts

bdutts
Houston, Texas
bdutts
Roundball Sage said:
Most people honestly have a pretty forgiving nature. All of us make mistakes and all of us are in need of forgiveness. People would ‘forgive’ the Houston American League Ball Club if they had done these following things:

For #2: Call a press conference with EVERYBODY there — players, coaches, even the ownership. Confess that they were “over-eager” in trying to win and did things they could not have and are not proud of. And MEAN all this.

For #3: Have the organization refuse to acknowlege all the “victories” they got while cheating. And forfeit any titles or record-book gains they received as a result of these ill-gotten “victories”. Apologize to the ball clubs that were harmed on the field. Rescind and refuse any 'Amnesty'. And then...

Apologize to ALL MLB FANS around the World for what they did.

Then... and only then... can “forgiveness” be offered. And not only that... all this could be used in the future as a Teaching Moment of what can happen when lose your priorities and make winning-at-all-costs the way you do business. Should become part of every business school teaching.

To your other points...

Astros fans who want to deny and forget all this are just being cowards. They know their ball club did wrong but refuse to admit it. They are “bad sports” and losers.

And yes, as time fades... many people will forget. But not those of us who care about the integrity of how you play the game... and insuring that real Champions are only crowned the right way.

As a White Sox fan, we know the Black Sox were a stain on the sport as well. But honestly, the AL was still fairly young at the time and important lessons had not yet been learned. Clearly, the Astros learned nothing from the Black Sox Scandal.

As the saying goes... “Houston? You DO have a problem!”
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Regarding point #2: People who feel the way you do will NEVER forgive them, regardless of how sincere they make it. They could do exactly what you said to do and folks who feel like you do will say, "They were great actors, they were just faking it, they don't really mean it!". So why bother? They aren't going to win over people who feel like you. They did what they were required to do by MLB.

Regarding point #3: You know darn well that NO professional sports team would ever give up wins/titles of their own accord. It will never happen in anyone's lifetime. That's pie in the sky thinking to wish for that.

Regarding Astros fans: You're wrong there. They know their team did wrong. They also know that the Astros served the punishment as levied against them by MLB. If you think it wasn't severe enough, that's fair and I'd agree with you, but that falls squarely on the shoulders of the commissioner, not the team (see my response to your point #3 above). They also know that for now and forever, no matter how much you or anyone else says they aren't, they ARE the World Series Champions of 2017, unless a commissioner in the future vacates it. That's where it's interesting to me as a non-Astros fan who has moved on. Astros fans don't care what anyone else thinks and folks who feel like you do don't care that they don't care.

Here is my take: It was wrong for them to cheat the way they did, the punishment they received was too light but nothing I think, say or do is going to change the result of 2017. Life's too short for me to get all wound up about this. It's over and done with.
 
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