2023 Chicago White Sox

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#176      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
bdutts said:
Regarding point #2: People who feel the way you do will NEVER forgive them, regardless of how sincere they make it.
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Actually, I WOULD 'forgive' them if they did those three things. I appear more hard-line because they got away with little punishment and some of them seemed pleased and cocky about that. That just adds another layer of shame. And they made NO attempt at #1, #2, or #3.

bdutts said:
Regarding point #3: You know darn well that NO professional sports team would ever give up wins/titles of their own accord. It will never happen in anyone's lifetime. That's pie in the sky thinking to wish for that.
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A team that had integrity would do those things. If no team would ever do that... then there is no team with integrity in pro sports (and that could be true).
There are just levels of having more or having less of 'not' having integrity.

bdutts said:
Regarding Astros fans: You're wrong there. They know their team did wrong... they ARE the World Series Champions of 2017..."
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Well, if Astro fans know they did wrong it sure doesn't seem to bother them too much or keep them up at night. 'Winning-at-all-costs' covers a lot of sins I guess. And as for the players and record books... it may read that the Astros are the champs and they may all have pretty rings... but if you look closely those rings will always be covered in the mud of shame. And they will never shine as brightly as they could have.

bdutts said:
Astros fans don't care what anyone else thinks and folks who feel like you do don't care that they don't care.
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There is no reason for any Astros fan to care what I think. But they should care about playing the game in a spirit of good sportsmanship. If they don't care about that... then they have a much bigger problem than whoever wins baseball games.

bdutts said:
Life's too short for me to get all wound up about this.
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No one should get overly wound up over a baseball game, or any game to an outsized degree. But what matters most to me - as I have been indicating - are the larger issues that surround the cheating and fan reaction. Those larger issues actually are a big deal.

I have enjoyed reading your take on all this.
 
#177      

bdutts

bdutts
Houston, Texas
bdutts
Roundball Sage said:
Actually, I WOULD 'forgive' them if they did those three things. I appear more hard-line because they got away with little punishment and some of them seemed pleased and cocky about that. That just adds another layer of shame. And they made NO attempt at #1, #2, or #3.



A team that had integrity would do those things. If no team would ever do that... then there is no team with integrity in pro sports (and that could be true).
There are just levels of having more or having less of 'not' having integrity.



Well, if Astro fans know they did wrong it sure doesn't seem to bother them too much or keep them up at night. 'Winning-at-all-costs' covers a lot of sins I guess. And as for the players and record books... it may read that the Astros are the champs and they may all have pretty rings... but if you look closely those rings will always be covered in the mud of shame. And they will never shine as brightly as they could have.



There is no reason for any Astros fan to care what I think. But they should care about playing the game in a spirit of good sportsmanship. If they don't care about that... then they have a much bigger problem than whoever wins baseball games.



No one should get overly wound up over a baseball game, or any game to an outsized degree. But what matters most to me - as I have been indicating - are the larger issues that surround the cheating and fan reaction. Those larger issues actually are a big deal.

I have enjoyed reading your take on all this.
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Thanks, I enjoyed reading your take on it as well. I think a lot of what you're saying parallels society in general, but that's definitely a different discussion. :)
 
#178      

SeattleSlim

S
SeattleSlim
bdutts said:
How many people really care about it now? How many people born in the 1980s and later even know what happened? After a certain generation dies off, the Black Sox scandal will be nothing but a line in a history book that no one other perhaps White Sox fans will know (or care about).
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Ignorance is no excuse.
 
#181      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
SeattleSlim said:
… because the punishment was severe and long-lasting.
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Yes it was. And in some ways, still is.

Why do certain College programs cheat and ‘bend the rules’? To win games and gain unfair advantage over opponents. And gain all the other benefits of doing that.

Why would the White/Black Sox ‘cheat’ in the form of throwing/fixing games? Because the then Sox Owner was cheap and the players were underpaid and they resented (hated?) him. The Sox players (not all of them) did it for money (and anger).

What the Sox players did was of course wrong... but they were not trying to gain advantage over their opponents like today’s clubs like the Astros did and certain college programs may be doing right now. It could be said that the Sox Owner back then was the real cause of the Black Sox Scandal. If the players had been paid reasonably then the temptation to fix games would be way less if not eliminated.

Sox fans today might not agree with what that Black Sox team did back then. But Sox fans today know all about a cheap and disliked owner who has abused South Sider’s love for this franchise and who threatens to move the team out of Chicago. So in some ways... the Sox of today (and Sox fans) are stuck with the same bad situation they had back over 100 years ago. The Sox have never had good ownership except for the periods when Bill Veeck owned the team.

So there are fundamental differences between today’s college ‘cheating’ issues and what happened with the Black Sox. Both are wrong... but one is more understandable than the other. And what the Sox did hurt themselves, not the opponents.
 
#183      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
The Sox have make Tim Anderson a free agent.

This is a sad but necessary move on the part of the Sox. I don’t know who was inside of Tim Anderson’s uniform during the 2023 Season... but it wasn’t Tim.

With the departure of Jose Abreu, the Sox needed a new leader to step forward. Anderson could have been that leader. Instead, his game disappeared and he was a no-show both as a player and leader.

There is still is some good baseball left in Anderson. But both he and the White Sox need a fresh start away from each other.
 
#184      

splitter

splitter
and not Nebraska
splitter
Wish Tim all the best in his new start and thanks for his run on the Southside. Hope the new era doesn't start by continuing to rush players to majors. Let all of the young players develop together at AAA in 2024. Colas was rushed because of the need for a right fielder. Don't do the same with Colson because of the need for a shortstop. Same for all the other young talent. Fill the '24 roster with some culture and defense first vets on a one-year deal with options so that is who the Sox are when the young guys arrive. Plenty of needs but the biggest is for players to play in their roll. No more DH or 1st basemen in the outfield unless that is also where they belong. Doing that set back Sheets and Vaughn as well as the team. Too many examples of that with others as well.
 
#186      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Joel Goodson said:
ugh. figures Reinsdorf would lose Benetti. way to go.
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Talented people find it very difficult to work for bad companies with bad owners. Right now, that is what the Chicago White Sox are (and have been for forty years).
Bad ownership just ruins everything from the top down.

Jose Abreu was a great Sox talent and he had to go. Tim Anderson somehow got himself ruined while playing for the Sox. Cease is getting himself ruined these past months. And Benetti is a very talented broadcaster with wit and insight... and wit and insight are just not welcomed under bad Sox ownership. It was only a matter of time before this divorce had to happen. And Stone has learned to pretty much keep his mouth and only make safe comments in his elder years.

I don’t know if the Detroit gig is really right for Jason. But he knows he had to get off a ship that is sinking at 35th and The Ryan. It’s going to be a LONG year next season... and maybe for years to come. And Benetti’s real future is at the Major Network level.

And that will be just fine with The Owner as he waits to sell the Sox to Music City and make a fortune of money while leaving 35th Street with a big empty crater and millions of broken-hearted Chicagoland White Sox fans. But since when do Sox fans matter to Sox ownership?
 
#187      

Mr. Tibbs

Mr. Tibbs
southeast DuPage
Mr. Tibbs
Joel Goodson said:
ugh. figures Reinsdorf would lose Benetti. way to go.
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yup
Benetti read the writing on the wall and wanted outta dodge
it was not that long ago that no one would leave Chicago for Detroit in any sport

wonder how Len Kasper is feeling. you think there is a chance he does play by play for the Pale Hose ?
 
#188      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Mr. Tibbs said:
Benetti read the writing on the wall and wanted outta dodge
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Wonder if he knows the team will be sold off soon and he wants out now. There is more to this story that we may never find out (and neither he nor the Sox will talk).

Mr. Tibbs said:
it was not that long ago that no one would leave Chicago for Detroit in any sport
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That’s true. But it got me to thinking that in many ways Detroit is the most ‘Chicago’ city that is not Chicago. Meaning that it’s a big city on the Great Lakes that once had a great industrial labor force and many immigrants that came from Europe. Plus the fact that Detroit sports fans can be as passionate as Chicago sports fans. And a large African-American population. And both cities have a great music tradition -- Detroit Motown and Chicago Blues. And both cities have had great House Music.

The Lions up till now have been under-achievers just like the Bears.

The Tigers are a legacy AL franchise with a great history like the Sox.

The Wings and Blackhawks were huge rivals in the Original Six days and both cities have passionate hockey fans.

And except for the Jordan years and the Detroit Bad Boys years... both the Pistons and Bulls have under-achieved.

So when you think about it there are a lot of similarities with the two cities.

Lions are better now. Tigers will likely be better than the Sox next year. Wings are better than the Blackhawks right now. And Pistons and Bulls both need help.

The City of Chicago is in far better shape than the City of Detroit. But when you look under the surface there are many parallels.
 
#191      

Mr. Tibbs

Mr. Tibbs
southeast DuPage
Mr. Tibbs
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
No chance. He specifically moved to radio so he could call potential Sox playoff games.

Mike Monaco is being discussed as a possible replacement for Benetti.
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I did know he really wanted to do radio , as it is a different skill than TV. He was so good on TV though .

I hope Len is in it for the long haul - I don’t think the Sox are going to the post season anytime soon

I kinda wonder how many people even listen to Sox games on the radio as compared to the Cubs or Cardinals
 
#192      

IlliniFaninHoosierLand

IlliniFaninHoosierLand
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Mr. Tibbs said:
I did know he really wanted to do radio , as it is a different skill than TV. He was so good on TV though .

I hope Len is in it for the long haul - I don’t think the Sox are going to the post season anytime soon

I kinda wonder how many people even listen to Sox games on the radio as compared to the Cubs or Cardinals
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I don't know how much of a presence they have downstate for their radio network. I know here in the capital city they are only on if there's not a Cubs game on at the same time.
 
#193      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Mr. Tibbs said:
I kinda wonder how many people even listen to Sox games on the radio as compared to the Cubs or Cardinals
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Sox radio used to be a really big thing years ago. They had a great radio announcer – Bob Elson – who had a relaxed and knowledgeable broadcasting style. He was there for YEARS. Chicago was loaded with big factories back then and many workers were Sox fans. Home Games TV wasn’t as big as it is now – so the way fans would follow the games was on radio at work or on work breaks or when they got home.

After that for the Sox was the big mouth from St. Louis who ended up on the North Side. But he was always a Cardinal at heart.

The Sox have a smaller National footprint than either the North Siders or the Red Birds. St. Louis games for years have been sent to all over America on the big-signal radio station from The Lou and got generations of fans. And the North Siders got a big National following off the Super Station on Cable in the ‘80s and another powerful radio station. The Sox haven’t matched that level of radio coverage.

I guess the question now is which Nashville station will carry the White Sox? Right, Jerry!?
 
#194      

SeattleSlim

S
SeattleSlim
Roundball Sage said:
Sox radio used to be a really big thing years ago. They had a great radio announcer – Bob Elson – who had a relaxed and knowledgeable broadcasting style. He was there for YEARS. Chicago was loaded with big factories back then and many workers were Sox fans. Home Games TV wasn’t as big as it is now – so the way fans would follow the games was on radio at work or on work breaks or when they got home.

After that for the Sox was the big mouth from St. Louis who ended up on the North Side. But he was always a Cardinal at heart.

The Sox have a smaller National footprint than either the North Siders or the Red Birds. St. Louis games for years have been sent to all over America on the big-signal radio station from The Lou and got generations of fans. And the North Siders got a big National following off the Super Station on Cable in the ‘80s and another powerful radio station. The Sox haven’t matched that level of radio coverage.

I guess the question now is which Nashville station will carry the White Sox? Right, Jerry!?
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Probably WSM … but games will likely be routinely preempted by the Grand Ole Opry … which would be fitting for the soap opera the Sox organization has sadly become.
 
#195      

Grandpa

G
Grandpa
#196      

IlliniFaninHoosierLand

IlliniFaninHoosierLand
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Grandpa said:
I haven't heard them on the radio in years. That isn't exactly scientific, so I checked. Nothing that I can get on a radio. AM1000 if the weather is perfect, there is no interference, etc.



https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/schedule/radio-affiliates
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Yeah I saw that as well. Seeing them be on WDWS in Champaign seems a bit random. ESPN 1000's signal is virtually impossible to listen to here. That plus The Score's signal being a lot better is part of the reason I prefer them over 1000.
 
#197      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Grandpa said:
I haven't heard them on the radio in years. That isn't exactly scientific, so I checked. Nothing that I can get on a radio. AM1000 if the weather is perfect, there is no interference, etc.
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This all goes back to the White Sox being poorly run as a business for the past 50 years. Good business people want to compete and thrive. In the Baseball business... everyone knows the large radio footprint that the Cardinals and the North Siders have beyond Chicago. And the Sox should be competing on that level -- or WOULD compete if they were a well-run business.

But maybe they ARE lining up stations in Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Bowling Green, Paducah, Oak Ridge...
 
#200      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
“Jason Benetti’s departure from White Sox hastened by contentious relationship with exec Brooks Boyer... an inappropriate remark he made to Benetti.”

The Chicago White Sox organization is devoid of class. Period. Who of integrity wants to work or play for such a franchise? They have destroyed what They used to be in their glory years when they were consistent winners and always gave the mighty Yanks all they could handle to win a pennant.

It’s truly pathetic, because the Sox have some of the best baseball fans in the World. And we have deserved so much better than what we’ve gotten from this classless group of people who have little-to-no clue how to run a successful baseball team.

I still harbor the notion that They are deliberately poisoning the water in Chicago so they can be sold for big bucks to some out-of-towner to be relocated.

A well-run franchise would have done everything they could to keep a top sports announcer and make him comfortable. But Sox Management simply hates Sox fans and they do not want good people working for them.
 
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