After yesterday I needed this. This is milk-through-the nose funny. Hilarious!
Arkansas 73, Illinois 63 Postgame
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Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Cook
- Richmond, VA
I hope BU knows this better than any of us (even if he doesn't say it out loud), but "elite" in practice doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't/don't do it in games. Full stop. CH may have the potential to be an elite shooter, but as of now he is not. Same goes for many of BU's other uses of "elite"
And like Chris Rock said, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I could drive my car with my feet, that doesn't make it a good idea." Which is my way of agreeing that CH should spend more time closer to the basket.
Something that struck me as funny: If you do a Google image search for "Phil Jackson screaming" you get a bunch of photos of:
1. Phil Jackson screaming at Kobe Bryant
and
2. Michael Jordan screaming at Phil Jackson
But, very few photos of the inverse.
One of Phil's best strategies was to coach where you had the best players in the league.
Looking back on the season as a whole... this group of guys actually OVER-achieved. They won more games as a collective than they really should have given the sum of their parts such as they are... physically, mentally, and emotionally.
We were all mesmerized by their occasional flashes of greatness like UCLA and Texas and some of the Big Ten clashes... and the high early-season ranking for a short time. We wanted to see what we hoped to see.. but never really did.
And yesterday was another baring of the Team’s soul. They were never really in that game from the very beginning. The big run to close within 5 points was just more fools-gold. They were the tortoise chasing after the confident rabbit all game long.
Good teams get you down and then keep you there. Yesterday, Arkansas was a good team. They put the Illini in a deep hole quickly. And when the Illini made their run at them late, how did they respond? Arkansas reeled off a bunch of points quickly and put the Illini right back down in the hole. That’s what good teams do. They take a punch... and then punch back with authority.
That’s what I’ve been wanting to see from the Illini for many years... THAT kind of assertive approach and response in the heat of battle. But it just hasn’t been there.
As I said in the post about the weirdness of how poorly the Illini have done in The Dance in their long and storied history... this lack of team game doggedness and in-game-fire in recent times is also baffling. Different eras... different players... different coaches... and the floor results are the same. The floor response in real time is missing in action. (Yes, there were a few pleasant exceptions to this over the years. But that's the problem -- these were 'exceptions' to the overall trend).
Some have stated that this was Coach’s toughest year in his career. Well, it appears that this off-season may be the toughest in Coach’s career as well. There are so many enigmas both on and off the floor to unwrap in so short a time. Not to mention assembling a competitive team for the court.
This will be the longest... and shortest off-season at the same time.
Why would Shannon come back? Didn’t he go thru senior night? I don’t think playing a 5th year helps him with the NBA. Is he the guy all the NIL dollars go to?
AyoDos11
- Southern Illinois
Can't wait for next year!!
I get that everyone is frustrated over early Tourney exits but we need to be a little realistic with our criticisms (like I'm the one saying that since I throw something at the TV at least once a game).
2021 - If there is a gripe it's this one. Loyola loaded up to limit Ayo and gambled that no one would step up to make them change and guessed right. BU I think kept waiting for us to make a run and resisted making any big adjustments until it was too late.
2022 - Our PG couldn't see out of one eye and our SF couldn't lift one arm above his shoulder. With those two issues we were doomed to an early exit.
2023 - 8/9 games are always toss ups and we were a 9 because we played like a 9 most of the year, and we played like a 9 again against Arkansas. All of the issues and problems that had been there all year were there again yesterday.
We'll see going forward how this plays out. Get a balanced team that goes into the Dance healthy a couple of times before we blow our collective cool.
2021 - If there is a gripe it's this one. Loyola loaded up to limit Ayo and gambled that no one would step up to make them change and guessed right. BU I think kept waiting for us to make a run and resisted making any big adjustments until it was too late.
2022 - Our PG couldn't see out of one eye and our SF couldn't lift one arm above his shoulder. With those two issues we were doomed to an early exit.
2023 - 8/9 games are always toss ups and we were a 9 because we played like a 9 most of the year, and we played like a 9 again against Arkansas. All of the issues and problems that had been there all year were there again yesterday.
We'll see going forward how this plays out. Get a balanced team that goes into the Dance healthy a couple of times before we blow our collective cool.
Then why did he recruit him?
Saw a stat. Tom Izzo is 19-5 in first round games.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Given the seeds he's had that's probably pretty close to par.
Eyeballing it, looks like he's 10-4 in Sweet Sixteen games, and with some upsets in that mix, that's where he really separates himself, IMO.
18-6 in second weekend games I think? Again just eyeballing it from Wikipedia. That's an unbelievable record, I can't imagine any active coach is close.
Self looks to be 15-10, and it was 11-10 until 2018. 2-10 in the Elite Eight before then at three different schools.
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Had to get out a piece of paper for this one:
So all NCAA tournaments are played in two-game units right, a four-team bracket over a weekend? First/Second, S16/E8, FF/Title Game.
Bill Self career is 35-6 in the first game of an NCAA tournament weekend, but only 20-15 in the second game.
Some of that is the effect of easy first round games, but only a bit. He's 21-2 in the first round, to the stat about Izzo above.
So all NCAA tournaments are played in two-game units right, a four-team bracket over a weekend? First/Second, S16/E8, FF/Title Game.
Bill Self career is 35-6 in the first game of an NCAA tournament weekend, but only 20-15 in the second game.
Some of that is the effect of easy first round games, but only a bit. He's 21-2 in the first round, to the stat about Izzo above.
DaChief4ever
- Urbana
As a lifelong Illinois Fan....wondering what a second round for Illinois would look like.....hmmmmmm
He must not have heard that the game “has passed him by” like so many her repeatedly say
That's the question and it's a great question. Was it a poor evaluation? Did he think that he was a kid that he can mold into an "elite" defender and their personalities didn't match? When the Skyy situation went sideways and JE got thrown into a HUGE role, was it too much? Not sure anyone knows the answers, but it's relatively clear that 1)he's nowhere near physical enough to be a solid defender (right now) and he doesn't like to be coached the way BU coaches.
While I feel there are plenty of unfair criticisms of the coaching staff in this thread, personally, I feel that is a very fair criticism based on how things went with some of the players this year and the major chemistry issues, as that is the coaching staff's job to consider when constructing the roster. If we give the benefit of the doubt, a Skyy Clark situation is a very hard one to predict, as you'd need to not only predict a 5 star PG unable to hold the starting role you give him when he's the lone player on your team at that position, but also predict him leaving instead of fighting through it and winning it back. Yes, a character assessment needs to be done, but for a kid who fought through a knee injury to play, you don't expect him to be someone who would up and quit. That said, we also don't know what promises were made to get him to come here. But pure benefit of the doubt, hard to pass on a 5 star on an off chance they don't work out.
For the portaling though, that I think that is a bit harder to give benefit of the doubt, as it seemed that Mayer especially had a much different mindset than Brad on use, practice, and schemes, and that seemed readily apparent whenever he would speak. I would think that would have had to have been identified during the interview and vetting process. Some players are naturally talented but if they don't fit into the system or gameplan you want to run and also don't fit from a chemistry or good mentorship standpoint, you're better off putting a less talented player in that slot who does. And it does make you wonder if we brought in more of a glue-guy/mentor/defensively responsible/low-mid volume spot up shooter instead how a player like TSJ or Jayden or heck, even Skyy would've performed. How our team would've performed. This one seemed like a miss, but I think it's something Brad will learn from. I mean, if there is one thing we know that Brad is willing to do it's changing his approach and thought process when things don't work the way he thinks they should.
Goillinikobd
- Southeastern US
Taking the view from 30,000 feet, the portal and NIL have thrown two new large (somewhat unpredictable and uncontrollable) factors into recruiting and building a TEAM. Like it or not, we are trending to NBA model when it comes to motivating players.
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I agree with your points
My question for BU is how well have you recruited his type of player mentally. I can tell you it didn’t take long of watching games to realize Skyy MM and I would even say AC didnt fit the every day guy mentality. There are probably others but don’t know what happens in the locker room
With that said Hawkins TSJ RJ Goode Ty all seem to play hard and never quit which you can build a team around and have success with
Brad Underwood should use this strategy. He would be a legend.
Yes indeed. And the game on the college courts is also morphing into the NBA style of lots and lots of Threes... diminishing sound game fundamentals like crisp and intelligent passing and nailing free-throws... and slowly disappearing defensive attention and intensity.
And as I said in a prior post... much greater ‘Feelings of Player Entitlement’... and a diminishing power of Head Coaches.
And one more thing to throw into the mix. The University System itself may be undergoing fundamental changes off the court. Will young people continue to take on debt to attend these schools-of-higher-learning in the future? Will there be adequate financial assistance? Serious problems in the banking and lending industry coming to the surface this week. What kind of careers will be left with AI and further industry and business consolidation? How can young people make sense of what careers to prepare for in a World that is changing by the day?
So... the games of sports competition are undergoing functional changes as well as the larger institutions they represent.
The NBA floor game these days is just not the equal of what it was such as back in the Jordan/Magic era. Let’s hope there isn’t too much slippage in the college game in the years ahead.
Since 1985 and field moving to 64/68 (and keeping in mind that in 2011/2013 NCAA moved to the lunacy of calling the first 4 "round 1", round of 64 second round, and round of 32 third round)
Round 1 - 18-7
Round 2 - 6-12
Round 3 - 3-3
Round 4 - 2-1
Round 5 - 1-1
Round 6 - 0-1
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