Bigtex
- DFW
We heard early in the season about him getting up (4:30) and shooting x number of shots each morning. Agree with 1 & 3 but if you mean improve his 3 point shot selection by taking fewer 3 point shots then I agree with all 3.
Arkansas 73, Illinois 63 Postgame
- Status
Underserved and bad matchups are code words for we didn't get it done.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Incidentally Self is 16-0 in the first round since losing to Bradley in 2006. Izzo of course lost a 2-15 game since then.
Not to in any way denigrate Izzo's excellent record as a coach, but I cannot relate to anyone who would think Izzo is either a better coach or a less obnoxious person than Bill Self at this point. You just let Bruce Weber break your brain in the aughts if you're still clinging to either of those notions.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Curbelo
Illini in OC
In. The. Alley.
Well said, Math Building.Thursday evening marked the end of my 40th basketball season of Illini fandom. The first one ended in OT, heartbreak and injustice in Rupp Arena in March '84.
Thursday evening was odd. After every single tournament loss, from the age of 18 all the way to 56 last year, I've felt gutted. It would take me several days to get over the loss, and occasionally I couldn't watch any of the remainder of the tournament. As we left the bar after the loss to the Hogs, however, my Illini brother and I were already talking about enjoying the rest of the tourney games. I got up yesterday morning and felt fine. Actually, no: I felt pretty good. Relieved like many here have expressed. Looking forward to seeing who will return and what the staff puts together for next year.
That says it all about this season, I guess. Don't want to focus on the negative so I'll do the opposite, since there's so much that is positive:
So pleased and happy for RJ that he fought through his slump and emerged at the end confident, swarming on D, and beginning to feel his shot. He's my guy. Ty is electric when he's on the court; am convinced he'll be a legend by the time he leaves if he sticks with us. Sencire is TF Jr. if he keeps at it and bulks up. I'm confident Luke can be our dagger from the perimeter next season. We really missed him this year. I hope Dain stays and works hard in the off-season. He can be a force for us in the post and open up the perimeter. I hope Jayden will become coachable; if not, I appreciate what he brought the team, particularly after Skyy bailed on them. And CoHawk... really hope he returns. He can be our leader. TSJ, too. If he comes back, that will be such a bonus. Without him this season we would likely have been a bottom-tier BT team. We have components of a team that can be special.
And BU... don't want to hear any carping about him. He resuscitated a near-corpse six years ago. I have no concerns about his ability to learn this year's lessons, adapt as he's done in the past, and put a winner on the floor again next season. A much more stable winner with a cohesive team culture. He's a smart, savvy, and insightful.
I'm thankful for yet another season when I looked forward to every game, even after it should have been clear to an old man like me that the ceiling had been reached in January! Also thankful for the community here and Dan's facilitation and stewardship of it. This Board and the people who frequent it make my life better, richer, and enable me to marinate daily in that Illini bond for which I'm so thankful. Nowhere else in life can I find a place that makes me laugh out loud and, in the same page, makes my heart swell with gratitude and a sense of affiliation. And I've only met one of you in person. Wild. Love it. This interwebs thing is spiffing.
Am already looking forward to the opening tip next November and the entertainment that I'm sure the spring/summer portal movements will bring.
Think we were all too excited by getting two transfers that were role players on their previous teams and expecting great things. Combine that with five frosh (counting Dain) and returning players of total 28 mins per game. We had length and athleticism but lacked in shooting and ball handling skills.
yes to development. In Nov/Dec they were raw, couldn't finish, etc. Both developed into solid role players - and on floor during many of the 2nd half comebacks. Ty = rebounding, ability to get to rim and started to finish; Harris - couldn't make a layup in Dec and that improved tremendously, etc. And yes to some serious woodshedding over next 7 months.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
Thursday evening marked the end of my 40th basketball season of Illini fandom. The first one ended in OT, heartbreak and injustice in Rupp Arena in March '84.
Thursday evening was odd. After every single tournament loss, from the age of 18 all the way to 56 last year, I've felt gutted. It would take me several days to get over the loss, and occasionally I couldn't watch any of the remainder of the tournament. As we left the bar after the loss to the Hogs, however, my Illini brother and I were already talking about enjoying the rest of the tourney games. I got up yesterday morning and felt fine. Actually, no: I felt pretty good. Relieved like many here have expressed. Looking forward to seeing who will return and what the staff puts together for next year.
That says it all about this season, I guess. Don't want to focus on the negative so I'll do the opposite, since there's so much that is positive:
So pleased and happy for RJ that he fought through his slump and emerged at the end confident, swarming on D, and beginning to feel his shot. He's my guy. Ty is electric when he's on the court; am convinced he'll be a legend by the time he leaves if he sticks with us. Sencire is TF Jr. if he keeps at it and bulks up. I'm confident Luke can be our dagger from the perimeter next season. We really missed him this year. I hope Dain stays and works hard in the off-season. He can be a force for us in the post and open up the perimeter. I hope Jayden will become coachable; if not, I appreciate what he brought the team, particularly after Skyy bailed on them. And CoHawk... really hope he returns. He can be our leader. TSJ, too. If he comes back, that will be such a bonus. Without him this season we would likely have been a bottom-tier BT team. We have components of a team that can be special.
And BU... don't want to hear any carping about him. He resuscitated a near-corpse six years ago. I have no concerns about his ability to learn this year's lessons, adapt as he's done in the past, and put a winner on the floor again next season. A much more stable winner with a cohesive team culture. He's a smart, savvy, and insightful.
I'm thankful for yet another season when I looked forward to every game, even after it should have been clear to an old man like me that the ceiling had been reached in January! Also thankful for the community here and Dan's facilitation and stewardship of it. This Board and the people who frequent it make my life better, richer, and enable me to marinate daily in that Illini bond for which I'm so thankful. Nowhere else in life can I find a place that makes me laugh out loud and, in the same page, makes my heart swell with gratitude and a sense of affiliation. And I've only met one of you in person. Wild. Love it. This interwebs thing is spiffing.
Am already looking forward to the opening tip next November and the entertainment that I'm sure the spring/summer portal movements will bring.
What a phrase......what a spin on the structure of taking an alphabet and arranging it into a visual thought of supremely satisfying fulfillment................Bro , you do know how to encompass a simple thought into a full meal deal of O & B delight........
I agree with your emotions as far as looking forward to next year and we will have numerous occasions of decisions by the players and staff to enjoin each other in rabid posting of our opinions with the majority in agreement of what needs to be done by all.....Not a unanimous agreement but respectful discussions with the end result of wanting what's best for the beloved.......
I have been drinking my assorted tea favorites , listening to over 3 hours of non stop hilarious George Carlin youtubes.......
What a way to spend a sunny but windy Saturday morning waiting for more absurd upsets in the Dance..........The Blues played their best game since dumping half of the team last night and look like they still have a beating heart inside their jerseys.......
One day at a time for me and NL # 3.................Time to med up and get ready for some BB..........It really really is .....................
I imagine you were fully matured at 15
Rodgers definitely developed. You couldn’t even play him the beginning of the year because he was lost on both ends.
I could see Rodgers taking a huge step this off-season and he doesn’t even need a jumper to do it. Getting stronger and learning to finish stronger at the rim and gaining more confidence as a facilitator will do him wonders.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I was more mature at 15 than I am now.
In an interview after one of his high school games at Thornton, he mentioned that his goal is to get to the NBA. He will need to greatly improve his shooting (lets start with simple free throw shooting) to be able to accomplish that goal.
Seems like a typical frosh problem on defense. Sencire and Ty were the exceptions. Can’t judge attitude but really like his skills. He is a scorer and we certainly not overloaded with those.
Your comment triggered a thought that's been percolating in my head--I wonder if in this new portal era that there might be a certain amount of pressure to lean heavily on your current portal athletes, to show athletes you hope to lure in the next portal cycle that you will deliver on promised playing time/usage rate.
If Coach parked MM on the bench for half the season, I can imagine that being a data point used against us in the portal chase this offseason.
Cook
- Richmond, VA
If it were me and I chose to bench them all, I'd certainly reverse and control the narrative.
E.g. statement: "This had to be done. I am a high character coach who won't compromise my values and what I stand for just for the sake of winning in the short term. I know we're going to lose games, that stinks for our fans, and I apologize to them while I get this fixed. Our fans, who are so passionate and loyal, deserve better a team to be proud of. I promise this is a necessary decision that I could not avoid; and is 100% the right thing to do for the long term betterment of our program. It's everything we're about and how I'll continue to build and advance teams I coach. I won't accept anything less than everyone involved in my program exhibiting exactly what I expect as an 'every day guy.' So I'm going to very deliberately take this hit now along with everything that comes with it (criticism, losing) to build for our future."
I could see that route getting some praise for being courageous.
Finally finished reading the multitude of pages in this thread. Seems that a lot has been hashed through in these pages that doesn't need repeating by me. I will try to provide some insight in another direction. As a fan of Illinois basketball for 40 years, I have seen a lot. Players come and go and I have tried to figure out what makes a great team. It is something nebulous that we have not been able to capture nearly enough. I used to think we had the talent nearly every year in and out but were either lacking in coaching or chemistry within the team. I have come to believe that you really need a certain high level of talent to compete at the level of Big Ten basketball. Despite my initial thoughts, we have not always had that talent. We have had some great likeable guys that really just were not up to par, or something was inhibiting them from being great. The same can be said for some of the coaches we have had.
Getting that right combination of talent, chemistry, and coaching is a difficult task. It is, of course, up to the head coach to make this happen. Underwood seems to be a guy that can do it. He seems to be able to identify and recruit talent at a high level. He is also not afraid to cull guys when they don't quite fit the bill. He has assembled a good coaching staff, most recently having to do it on the fly amid departures. He has not been perfect but appears to be willing to adjust when necessary and has learned in the process. The last bit about team chemistry is the hardest. There is only so much that the coach can do in this regard. It is really up to the players. Underwood seems to understand that it takes building a culture to foster team chemistry.
I really think that this years team has been lacking in that culture and didn't have the chemistry to compete at the highest level. It is understandable given the losses from last years team and how this team was put together with Freshmen and transfers. Some bad luck with injuries and guys not panning out also played into it. Building a team is always a work in progress. I think this year has to be considered a bump in the road that is understandable, given the circumstances. Hopefully, Underwood learned something this year and can avoid some pitfalls moving forward. Retaining a core of guys to help build culture seems to be the key to building a great team.
I this new world of NIL, we have a tool that can help to retain the guys we want. We seem to be able to compete at a high level in this regard based on what we have seen so far. Using this tool to greatest effect my take some time and learning. Using NIL so that it doesn't affect team chemistry may well be an art. Underwood appears to be up to the task and I look forward to seeing what transpires in the years ahead. Getting high quality guys who buy in and function as a unit will go a long way to building a great team that can create the kind of program we hope to have here at Illinois. Who knows? It might also bring us the kind of sustained success that leads to a national title.
Getting that right combination of talent, chemistry, and coaching is a difficult task. It is, of course, up to the head coach to make this happen. Underwood seems to be a guy that can do it. He seems to be able to identify and recruit talent at a high level. He is also not afraid to cull guys when they don't quite fit the bill. He has assembled a good coaching staff, most recently having to do it on the fly amid departures. He has not been perfect but appears to be willing to adjust when necessary and has learned in the process. The last bit about team chemistry is the hardest. There is only so much that the coach can do in this regard. It is really up to the players. Underwood seems to understand that it takes building a culture to foster team chemistry.
I really think that this years team has been lacking in that culture and didn't have the chemistry to compete at the highest level. It is understandable given the losses from last years team and how this team was put together with Freshmen and transfers. Some bad luck with injuries and guys not panning out also played into it. Building a team is always a work in progress. I think this year has to be considered a bump in the road that is understandable, given the circumstances. Hopefully, Underwood learned something this year and can avoid some pitfalls moving forward. Retaining a core of guys to help build culture seems to be the key to building a great team.
I this new world of NIL, we have a tool that can help to retain the guys we want. We seem to be able to compete at a high level in this regard based on what we have seen so far. Using this tool to greatest effect my take some time and learning. Using NIL so that it doesn't affect team chemistry may well be an art. Underwood appears to be up to the task and I look forward to seeing what transpires in the years ahead. Getting high quality guys who buy in and function as a unit will go a long way to building a great team that can create the kind of program we hope to have here at Illinois. Who knows? It might also bring us the kind of sustained success that leads to a national title.
I actually picked Arkansas in my bracket, I wasn't going to fooled by this team anymore, they were only 13-11 since beating Texas; at the end of the day they were simply average at best and never learned how to play as a cohesive unit. I know he had issues with injuries but one of the players I single out as being a disappointment was RJ Melendez, dude could never seem to be able to get anything going on a consistent basis.
Well that and for better or worse we were going as far as MM and TSJ were going to take us. So I think BU was forced to ride with them no matter what.
For instance, if January Mayer showed up on Thursday and gave us 20 points, 4 offensive rebounds and a couple of blocks we win easy. And we would be a really tough out for KU.
With MM essentially giving us nothing we didn’t have the horses to keep up with a decidedly mediocre Arkansas team.
Dee_4_Three_83
- Mahomet, IL
Depends on who you are trying to attract. High character people will want a coach that is consistent. Everyone on the team knew MM played because we needed his offense and tolerated his defensive lapses. RJ played for the exact opposite reason in the hopes that he could fix his shot.
If players aren't running your plays and still playing, I feel like that can attract the wrong recruit/transfer. I just want consistency and high character guys to come to the Illini. I don't think we got that with all of our newcomers this year.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
I thought that Ty developed substantially over the season. Completely lost at first, as many freshman are, but then quickly learning how to position himself and space on the court, and also applying an unusual ability for a freshman to use his position to rebound, and generally clean up underneath. I lost track of how many times at the end of a broken possession I'd exclaim "Ty!" after he snagged a difficult 'bound , or followed someone else shot and got us a fresh 20 on the clock. I don't know what his +/- stats looked like but it seemed to me he was an X-factor that at the margin secured more than one victory.
Congrats on 40 years of Illini support. Many sorrows and many great joys along that road.
I agree with your feeling of, “I got up yesterday morning and... felt pretty good... Relieved...”
It seems that many of us felt this kind of end to the Illini season was coming for much of the year. We tried to put a good, positive face on the guys finally coming together and playing as a cohesive team. But that was more wish-fulfillment-hope than anything tangible we really saw evidence of on the court (or in the team huddle).
For myself, I felt this kind of quick end to the season very early in the Arkansas game when I saw the same pattern emerging... other team gets a jump on the Illini and puts them in a hole... Illini tries a late and futile effort to get back into the game... and other team then grabs a hold of the game by the throat.
This past year’s Illini team just cannot compete with the best teams in college ball. There’s no particular shame in that because the vast majority of teams in college ball can’t compete with the best ones, either. As I said in another post... it seems this Illini group actually over-achieved.
As for your thoughts on Coach Underwood... one can greatly appreciate what he has accomplished and his high regard for the Illini roundball legacy and still raise a legitimate question about why the Illini continue to struggled so mightily in the Dance. Both of these positions can be simultaneously valid.
And if Coach is being honest with himself... in his quiet moments he must be asking that same question of himself. Any good coach would in this situation. Hard questions that places like Tucson and West Lafayette and Charlottesville are asking too right now (and have asked before).
The Secret Sauce is there is something more than having (just) ball talent on the floor. Some programs just 'know how to win' (even in years that are down talent-wise) while others can’t grab that lightning in a bottle.
And you are spot on with your feelings about Illini Nation. The greatest thing about Illinois Basketball is Illini fans. We are the ones that are present year after year. Coaches and players come and go. And even with the many tournament disappointments we’ve all experienced over the years... we still dare to believe that one day the Illini will be holding that Big Trophy.
It’s easy to be a Duke or North Carolina or Kansas or Kentucky (and such at that high level) fan because people gravitate to Winners and that kind of fandom is quick and easy to do. And those programs have been at a high level for a long time. It’s not so easy to continue to give a piece of your heart to something that sometimes leaves you a bit bruised and confused. But we do it because we love this Game. And we love the guys who choose to represent us on the court and honor our passion for Illinois ball in all its many forms.
Hope you see lots of Illini victories in the next 40 years! And you get to hold the Big Trophy high over your head one day soon.
I think all those excuses are valid- but the most frustrating part is we lost by double digits each time and weren’t really competitive in any of those games- that is a coaching problem
We underacheived in the tournament the previous two years, but lost to a higher seed this year. It was a 5 point game with 3 mins left. The tournament is random as heck. Look at Purdue the last 3 years (and 2016). We lost 90% of our production this season and all 5 starters = gone. We were the 2nd youngest team in the country by age. Players quit on the team mid-season. This year was a mess. I don't give the staff a complete pass here but have faith in them going forward.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Well said, my friend and thanks.
Just to clarify my BU comments: am not suggesting for a moment that he's above criticism. I simply don't find many criticisms of him this season substantial. I believe he had a choice to make between acquiescing to MM (TSJ didn't seem to be a disruptive influence) and putting up with a refusal of JE and others to run plays simply so that we'd have a chance of not imploding. I respect that choice. Don't believe he could have done otherwise and not damaged the program.
As I noted, he has a track record of adapting when hitting bumps in the road. Changing his offensive scheme dramatically after that first season, and modulating his sideline demeanor this season (at times.) I have confidence he'll do what's necessary for the program to thrive. As I noted: he's smart, savvy, insightful. Those are the components of success in high performers. Particularly the final one: the characteristic of learning and growing from via experience and having an active feedback loop that enables this.
Can't wait to see this feedback loop in action over the remainder of 2023. Am truly excited about it.
That is true. Many comments of criticism he got were simply out of fan frustration in the moment. Coach found himself in some no-win situations with players and various game situations that he navigated as the best course he felt at the time. As he looks back and reflects at specifics over the year he will doubtless chart some new approaches going forward. He will be a somewhat changed man after the experience of this past year.
Any criticism by fans won't bother him. He knows that goes with the job and any good coach plays above that stuff. (But insights from Assistants will be most welcomed).
Coaching is just tougher now that it was before. Not saying it was ever easy. But years ago one could get away with a more - shall we say - authoritative approach. Something like, 'I'm the Coach, you're the Player. Got that?!'. That doesn't fly any more. Coach has to be more of a diplomate... counselor.. mind reader... persuader. Not exactly the Bobby Knight approach to fun and success. Player feelings are now much more in play... and the court area has become a much safer environment for chairs and various other throwables.
The upcoming season will truly be a clean slate. Everyone involved in the Program will clean their palate and start fresh. Lots of new blood into the program and hopefully a cohesive floor unit in body and spirit.
As I've said before... there is some kind of missing piece here to this past year's story that hopefully will have resolved itself and not hang around.
- Status