Big Ten All-Conference Awards

#76      

Point-Illinois

P
Point-Illinois
skyIdub said:
Come on now. If you think "always having at least one awesome player" on your team equals easy coaching success.....I just don't know what to tell you.
Painter is an excellent coach. Just do a little research instead of a drive by dismissal.
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Right??

Also, who recruited that player, developed them, helped them game plan and have success each game?

Sheesh, it’s not like there is a random shuffle of all the CBB players each year and a coach gets no say in who his team will be or how they will perform each game.
 
#77      

thefalcon5

T
thefalcon5
skyIdub said:
Come on now. If you think "always having at least one awesome player" on your team equals easy coaching success.....I just don't know what to tell you.
Painter is an excellent coach. Just do a little research instead of a drive by dismissal.
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Yeah having a good team or player as an automatic dismissal of a COTY candidate or winner is a scorching hot take.

How did that player become good? Just by himself? At some point developing players should factor into a COTY discussion. Even simpler, who recruited and got the right players on their team?
 
#78      

jamarvelous31

jamarvelous31
jamarvelous31
OB positive said:
Except they didn't give it to Underwood when we won the conference or btt championship.
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Not quite the same. BU had the preseason POY, but the yr he won was a tie for the conference with the pre-season 10th place team.

IIRC Gard won because they were not expected to be good and BU didn't get the love because the perception was we only moved up 1 spot (preseason 3rd vs tied for 1st) and backed into it due to Wiscy losing to NU in the final game. Gard essentially had both Hoiberg & Painter's story combined.

The BTT doesn't really factor into this since the award is given out beforehand.
 
#79      

AirNeazy

AirNeazy
AirNeazy
jjv0004 said:
Painter is incredibly overrated as a coach. Sorry. The guy almost always has at least one awesome player on his team. Who wouldn't win with the team he has the last 4-5 years?
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He's great at recruiting to his style and fit, as well as developing those guys into elite players no matter what they were ranked out of HS. That really can't be debated.

But with all the talent he's been able to develop, he's still only ever made it past the S16 once in 18 years.

To have had the likes of Etwaun Moore, Robbie Hummel, Caleb Swanigan, Carsen Edwards, Jaden Ivey, Trevion Williams, Zach Edey, Jajuan Johnson, and AJ Hammons come through your program and have not only zero FFs but just one EE, while also having arguably the worst loss in NCAAT history as a 1 seed....I can see why he's seen as an underperformer by some.
 
#80      

Point-Illinois

P
Point-Illinois
AirNeazy said:
He's great at recruiting to his style and fit, as well as developing those guys into elite players no matter what they were ranked out of HS. That really can't be debated.

But with all the talent he's been able to develop, he's still only ever made it past the S16 once in 18 years.

To have had the likes of Etwaun Moore, Robbie Hummel, Caleb Swanigan, Carsen Edwards, Jaden Ivey, Trevion Williams, Zach Edey, Jajuan Johnson, and AJ Hammons come through your program and have not only zero FFs but just one EE, while also having arguably the worst loss in NCAAT history as a 1 seed....I can see why he's seen as an underperformer by some.
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I think these are good points, and if the B1G COTY award included tourney games, they’d have to come into consideration.

But it’s just a regular season award so the post season arguments hold no water. (Just in this particular case)
 
#82      

2X2L

2
Metaluna
2X2L
Really happy for Marcus (Terrance, of course); really disappointed for Coleman.
 
#83      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
skyIdub said:
Come on now. If you think "always having at least one awesome player" on your team equals easy coaching success.....I just don't know what to tell you.
Painter is an excellent coach. Just do a little research instead of a drive by dismissal.
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Just look at Maryland, widely projected to be at least top 5 if not top 3 in the conference. Just because a team is predicted to do something doesn't mean they will accomplish it or that its easier to do somehow.
 
#84      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
pruman91 said:
TSJ not getting a sniff on the Defensive teams is an absolute joke and also how does he not get unanimously picked and boobie did...........these are more popularity contests than based on merit.......also , Hoiberg should get coty instead of co-coach.....

JMHO....................
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I feel like Shannon is right there with Ace Baldwin as the best 1-1 perimeter defender in the league...could probably make an argument Shannon is even more versatile at his size, no? I don't get it. Whatever lol
 
#85      

AirNeazy

AirNeazy
AirNeazy
skyIdub said:
Picking nits with a coaches success in the NCAA tournament vs. his coaching success overall is just lazy observation.

A win or go home tournament after a 30ish game season is not the ultimate identifier of a good basketball coach.

Sustained success is.
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Of course has no bearing on whether he deserves B1G COTY (I agree he does this year) and I mostly agree that its a futile way to evaluate a coach, but they've been a top four protected seed in the last 6 (!) tourneys and in fact have been lower than a 5 seed in only 4/14 tourneys under Painter.

A large sample size has shown that something about his system/style doesn't translate to March ball. In fact the closest they ever got to the FF was with Carsen Edwards going Steph mode, specifically a very big deviation from Painter's usual plodding big man inside-out style.
 
#86      

FreshlySqueezed

FreshlySqueezed
FreshlySqueezed
An Illinois head coach has only won COTY 2x in program history. I'm not saying there's any bias, but feels weird that a program as solid as ours has only two conference COTY awards in roughly 50 years.

Purdue - 12
OSU - 9
Indiana - 6
Wisconsin - 6
Michigan - 5
Michigan State - 5
Illinois - 2
Iowa - 2
Minnesota - 2
Northwestern - 2
Nebraska - 2
Maryland - 1
PSU - 1
Rutgers - 0
 
#87      

SeattleSlim

S
SeattleSlim
As I reflect on all these award categories, it seems that, as fans, there’s one more category that should be listed: Forum of the Year.

We may be biased, but in my experience there’s not one that comes close to this one in terms of content, functionality, and enjoyment… so, here’s to Loyalty! Consensus pick of coaches, media, and fans!

Thanks, Dan, and thank you fellow fanatics!
 
#88      

Piotyr

P
Piotyr
For a change of perspective, here is the B1G all-conference teams (Computer):

1710269633046.png

I have no real issues with this list, but I am surprised Braden Smith came out so low comparatively.
 
#91      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
AirNeazy said:
Of course has no bearing on whether he deserves B1G COTY (I agree he does this year) and I mostly agree that its a futile way to evaluate a coach, but they've been a top four protected seed in the last 6 (!) tourneys and in fact have been lower than a 5 seed in only 4/14 tourneys under Painter.

A large sample size has shown that something about his system/style doesn't translate to March ball. In fact the closest they ever got to the FF was with Carsen Edwards going Steph mode, specifically a very big deviation from Painter's usual plodding big man inside-out style.
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Well, it may have more to do with roster construction then. Many have made that argument with respect to B1G basketball vs. NCAA Tourney.
There's just so much dumb one game luck involved.

Also, if you told me we could have a choice of a run to the title game like 2005....followed by what we endured for 10+ years after that.....vs. the sustained success we have now with a reasonable chance to have NCAA success every year but have random success with no guarantee there (such as Painter)....I'm taking the latter every day and twice on Sunday.
 
#92      

SactownIllini

SactownIllini
Coleman Hawkinsland
SactownIllini
FreshlySqueezed said:
An Illinois head coach has only won COTY 2x in program history. I'm not saying there's any bias, but feels weird that a program as solid as ours has only two conference COTY awards in roughly 50 years.

Purdue - 12
OSU - 9
Indiana - 6
Wisconsin - 6
Michigan - 5
Michigan State - 5
Illinois - 2
Iowa - 2
Minnesota - 2
Northwestern - 2
Nebraska - 2
Maryland - 1
PSU - 1
Rutgers - 0
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Wow good research. That’s pretty crazy. I’d say that maybe it’s because we generally have high expectations and when we don’t, we rarely exceed them?

Trying to think of years where we exceeded expectations and didn’t win COY. I can only think of 97-98 w Kruger and Chester’s last year under Weber. Maybe 03-04 but I remember a lot of hype with that team who really turned it on late B10 season.
 
#93      

Goillinikobd

Goillinikobd
Southeastern US
Goillinikobd
I think TSJ lost some support for off the court behaviors (no explanation needed) and CoHawk lost some because of on the court behaviors (excessive whining)
 
#94      

The Galloping Ghost

The Galloping Ghost
Washington, DC
The Galloping Ghost
skyIdub said:
Also, if you told me we could have a choice of a run to the title game like 2005....followed by what we endured for 10+ years after that.....vs. the sustained success we have now with a reasonable chance to have NCAA success every year but have random success with no guarantee there (such as Painter)....I'm taking the latter every day and twice on Sunday.
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I was on campus for 2005. It was truly magical and some of my favorite sporting memories. I also remember the feeling of being on the bubble just about every year and having to play an away game in the NIT because the freaking circus was in town (just way too on-the-nose for the state of the program, yeesh). Give me sustained success, relevancy, and a chance.
 
#95      

I-L-L

I
I-L-L
jjv0004 said:
Painter is incredibly overrated as a coach. Sorry. The guy almost always has at least one awesome player on his team. Who wouldn't win with the team he has the last 4-5 years?
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Have a hard time agreeing with this. Purdue has been consistently good for a while now. Part of being a good coach is getting the good players. Sure, getting upset early last year was a stunner for them, but that's one game. If you take his full body of work at Purdue, it's pretty darn good.
 
#97      

theNewGuy

theNewGuy
Dallas, TX
theNewGuy
So question to those who are upset at the coach of the year award.
Should the award go to the coach of the team who overachieved or the team who had the most success?

It is very disingenuous to say that Painter doesn't deserve the award and also say that Brad Underwood should have won or won in the past.
Painter will more than likely coach his team to THIRTY wins before even the NCAA tournament begins.
Purdue NEVER fell below rank #4 THE ENTIRE SEASON.
Painter brought back the reigning player of the year, kept key pieces on the roster in Smith and Loyer, and added key trasnfers like Lance Jones to complement Edey.

Fred Hoiberg took a Nebraska team that finished 12th last year, was predicted to be about the same this year, all the way to 3rd.

The sad fact is that Brad does a great job of making this team competitive in the offseason. Most voters do not take into account the offseason moves. Keeping TSJ and Coleman, adding Domask, Guerrier, and Harmon, and developing an offense around them was absolutely genius. The expectations going into the season are usually positive and finishing 2nd is about where we were projected.
I would have assumed that Brad would get more buzz if we could have won or shared the B1G title, but the fact is, Purdue beat us twice.

If there was an award for coach of the last 5 years, Brad wins.
If there was a General Manager of the year award, Brad wins.
But there's not. Fred and Matt both deserve the title of coach of the year. (I wish they just picked one tho :/ )
 
#98      

Zorak

Zorak
Naperville
Zorak
fatboyslim said:
LOL at Buie being unanimous and TSJ not. TSJ had 4 30 point games this year, Buie had none. TSJ >> Buie. All you Buie lovers if you don't like it sue me. I don't care.
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I have seen literally no one argue that Buie is better than Shannon on the court, which tells me exactly where the problem lies.
 
#99      

21ChampaignSt

21ChampaignSt
21ChampaignSt
skyIdub said:
Well, it may have more to do with roster construction then. Many have made that argument with respect to B1G basketball vs. NCAA Tourney.
There's just so much dumb one game luck involved.

Also, if you told me we could have a choice of a run to the title game like 2005....followed by what we endured for 10+ years after that.....vs. the sustained success we have now with a reasonable chance to have NCAA success every year but have random success with no guarantee there (such as Painter)....I'm taking the latter every day and twice on Sunday.
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Well yeah, if the two options are Matt Painter or purgatory, Painter seems like the better choice.

But if my options are Painter, Izzo, Ryan, Beilein, Self, Matta, Kruger, or Sampson (🤮), Painter is at the bottom of the list for me.

He's a perfectly fine coach and he may force me to eat crow this year, but he's been there for 20 years and until Edey came along, Purdue never (and still hasn't) reached the heights that the Big Ten coaches above got their schools to I
in far less time. Not to mention, Painter took over a pretty decent situation.

I do like him, but when you've been this close to breaking through to that MSU, AZ, Gonzaga tier of programs as Illinois has, Painter's tenure would be a big time settle.

Edit: He probably should be coach of the year. He built and coached a dominant team. He shouldn't be penalized for having great players.
 
#100      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
theNewGuy said:
So question to those who are upset at the coach of the year award.
Should the award go to the coach of the team who overachieved or the team who had the most success?

It is very disingenuous to say that Painter doesn't deserve the award and also say that Brad Underwood should have won or won in the past.
Painter will more than likely coach his team to THIRTY wins before even the NCAA tournament begins.
Purdue NEVER fell below rank #4 THE ENTIRE SEASON.
Painter brought back the reigning player of the year, kept key pieces on the roster in Smith and Loyer, and added key trasnfers like Lance Jones to complement Edey.

Fred Hoiberg took a Nebraska team that finished 12th last year, was predicted to be about the same this year, all the way to 3rd.

The sad fact is that Brad does a great job of making this team competitive in the offseason. Most voters do not take into account the offseason moves. Keeping TSJ and Coleman, adding Domask, Guerrier, and Harmon, and developing an offense around them was absolutely genius. The expectations going into the season are usually positive and finishing 2nd is about where we were projected.
I would have assumed that Brad would get more buzz if we could have won or shared the B1G title, but the fact is, Purdue beat us twice.

If there was an award for coach of the last 5 years, Brad wins.
If there was a General Manager of the year award, Brad wins.
But there's not. Fred and Matt both deserve the title of coach of the year. (I wish they just picked one tho :/ )
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While I see your point, and I largely agree, I think the main argument for Brad is the fact that he had to basically rebuild his team on the fly when TJ was out, and do it again when he came back. Not to mention, keeping the team mentally together during that time. Being over .500 on the road, despite the vitriol we faced in some of those venues was an extremely tall order.

That's coaching. No one wants to make that point, because no one wants to talk about the circumstances. I get that too.

I always assumed it would cost us in the post-season awards. TJ not being a unanimous selection tells you all you need to know about whether some voters held it against us.