Chicago Bears 2015-2016

#1      

champaignchris

C
champaignchris
Last year I argued with a lot of people that Cutler's "highest paid qb in the league" contract was nowhere near the albatross that the media made it out to be. As of today, he's 9th among qbs in terms of total cap hit. That will go to 11th once Newton's and Wilson's new contracts go into effect and will presumably be 12th once Luck gets a new deal. (Luck's a FA after this year.) You can probably call it 13th since Brady took a hometown discount and I strongly suspect there's an under the table handshake to give him a slice of ownership after he retires.

Point is, Cutler is being paid right about what he should be for a starting qb of his caliber.
 
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#2      

KBLEE

KBLEE
Montgomery, IL
KBLEE
champaignchris said:
Point is, Cutler is being paid right about what he should be for a starting qb of his caliber.
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Seeing as he led the league in turnovers, you still think he deserves to be paid better than a majority of starting QBs in the NFL??
 
#4      

champaignchris

C
champaignchris
Eli Manning has led the league in interceptions three separate times, is already paid more than Cutler, and will be paid a lot more than Cutler when signed to his next extension.

Cutler's interception rate wasn't all that bad last year. It was more a function of number of attempts, a very predictable offense, and always playing from behind. I'm not trying to argue that he had a good year by any stretch, but I'd point more to his career low in yards per attempt more than the Int's.
 
#5      

HeartofaChampion

H
HeartofaChampion
champaignchris said:
Eli Manning has led the league in interceptions three separate times, is already paid more than Cutler, and will be paid a lot more than Cutler when signed to his next extension.

Cutler's interception rate wasn't all that bad last year. It was more a function of number of attempts, a very predictable offense, and always playing from behind. I'm not trying to argue that he had a good year by any stretch, but I'd point more to his career low in yards per attempt more than the Int's.
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Eli's also won two Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVPs, and Cutler's YPA last year was another strike against him. Hope Jay plays much better this year, but his overall tenure with the Bears has been a disappointment, especially considering how much CHI gave up for him in trade.
 
#6      

IanKEvans2

IanKEvans2
IanKEvans2
Pessimist Warning:

Other than a regime change, could someone give me a reason for optimism for the upcoming season? On paper, I'm not seeing much to get excited about.
 
#8      

champaignchris

C
champaignchris
IanKEvans2 said:
Pessimist Warning:

Other than a regime change, could someone give me a reason for optimism for the upcoming season? On paper, I'm not seeing much to get excited about.
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They'll be better coached on defense.

They'll actually call some running plays.

Talent-wise, there isn't much difference between a 5-11 team versus a 8-8 team in the NFL.

"Optimism" isn't probably the right word. But they'll be less painful to watch.
 
#9      

IanKEvans2

IanKEvans2
IanKEvans2
champaignchris said:
They'll be better coached on defense.

They'll actually call some running plays.

Talent-wise, there isn't much difference between a 5-11 team versus a 8-8 team in the NFL.

"Optimism" isn't probably the right word. But they'll be less painful to watch.
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Off all the offseason moves, I liked the hire of Fangio the most. I'm interested to see what he can do with this defense. Keeping my fingers crossed for Kyle Fuller to have a great year.

"Less painful to watch." A 2015-2016 Bears slogan I can get behind! :thumb:

Thanks cc!
 
#10      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
IanKEvans2 said:
Pessimist Warning:

Other than a regime change, could someone give me a reason for optimism for the upcoming season? On paper, I'm not seeing much to get excited about.
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I figure last year I was looking for 10 or 11 wins. I think they will be better coached this year. Was I THAT far off? Probably, but what have they lost and gained?

I would be disappointed with anything less than 8-8 and a top 20 defense. I know that some pundits have this team at 5 or less wins, I don't see it. I look at the offense, and it should be able to do some good things.
 
#11      

Bomb Squad 217

B
Bomb Squad 217
Illwinsagain said:
I figure last year I was looking for 10 or 11 wins. I think they will be better coached this year. Was I THAT far off? Probably, but what have they lost and gained?

I would be disappointed with anything less than 8-8 and a top 20 defense. I know that some pundits have this team at 5 or less wins, I don't see it. I look at the offense, and it should be able to do some good things.
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I don't think you were off. Last year we certainly had the talent but it didn't come together with the staff and we had a few injuries. I'm right there with you, I think we are going to surprise.
 
#12      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
champaignchris said:
Last year I argued with a lot of people that Cutler's "highest paid qb in the league" contract was nowhere near the albatross that the media made it out to be. As of today, he's 9th among qbs in terms of total cap hit. That will go to 11th once Newton's and Wilson's new contracts go into effect and will presumably be 12th once Luck gets a new deal. (Luck's a FA after this year.) You can probably call it 13th since Brady took a hometown discount and I strongly suspect there's an under the table handshake to give him a slice of ownership after he retires.

Point is, Cutler is being paid right about what he should be for a starting qb of his caliber.
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Cutler has had the best run as a Bears QB in my lifetime. Kramer and McMahon, did not play enough. Harbough is the only real competition. So, I am still a fan, despite his turnovers. The fumbles get me more than the interceptions. Some of the INTs were end of half hail mary's. I prefer the 10% chance versus the kneel down. I predict this year, he will rank in the 11-20 range statistically.
 
#13      

AutoPoster 3000

AutoPoster 3000
AutoPoster 3000
Look, Fox has demonstrated he's one of the best in the league at rebuilding rosters (especially on D) and returning franchises to respectability. Denver was an ungodly wasteland in the condition Josh McDaniels left it. Speaking as a Broncos fan, the problem was a 2-3 playoff record with arguably the most talented team in the NFL during that three-year period and a weirdly consistent lack of passion, preparedness, and gutless conservative games plans in the really big matchups. Obviously there was the humiliating way Denver exited the post-season in years '12-'14, but they were 2-7 combined against New England, Seattle, and Indianapolis during that period too, so it wasn't just a post-season issue. But for Bears fans, that stuff is not your problem until 2018, 2017 at the earliest. For now, enjoy the ride back to respectability.
 
#14      

Shiloh

S
Tampa, FL
Shiloh
Illwinsagain said:
I figure last year I was looking for 10 or 11 wins. I think they will be better coached this year. Was I THAT far off? Probably, but what have they lost and gained?

I would be disappointed with anything less than 8-8 and a top 20 defense. I know that some pundits have this team at 5 or less wins, I don't see it. I look at the offense, and it should be able to do some good things.
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I have no doubt the defense will be just as frustrating, just hoping for signs of progress and adjustment to the new scheme. The offense is probably going to be about the same barring Kevin White being amazing or someone else's lightbulb turning on.

The optimist in me thinks losing Trestman and Tucker is worth 2-3 wins by itself.
 
#15      

KBLEE

KBLEE
Montgomery, IL
KBLEE
Shiloh said:
The offense is probably going to be about the same barring Kevin White being amazing or someone else's lightbulb turning on.
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Seeing as there is a good chance White will miss the entire season, the likelihood of him being amazing is quite slim.
 
#16      

Illiniaaron

I
Geneseo, IL
Illiniaaron
IanKEvans2 said:
Pessimist Warning:

Other than a regime change, could someone give me a reason for optimism for the upcoming season? On paper, I'm not seeing much to get excited about.
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I'm with you on this one. I think they could be very bad and have a tough schedule. I think they are changing so many things and the roster was so weak that there's a limit to what can be accomplished in one season. With Cutler at the helm you are definitely going to suffer through some bouts of bad qb play. I don't see the defense getting markedly better. And I know some are going to hammer me on this, but I just have a gut feeling that Kevin White is going to be a major disappointment.
 
#17      

Illiniaaron

I
Geneseo, IL
Illiniaaron
I think Champaignchris is basically correct in what he says in his post about Cutler, but 1. there was that period of time when he was #1 or #2 in salary and was playing poorly, irritating fans and 2. I think Chicago fans just have Cutler fatigue and are anxious to see a new starting qb at some point.
 
#18      

Bronson

B
Guest
Bronson
champaignchris said:
Last year I argued with a lot of people that Cutler's "highest paid qb in the league" contract was nowhere near the albatross that the media made it out to be. As of today, he's 9th among qbs in terms of total cap hit. That will go to 11th once Newton's and Wilson's new contracts go into effect and will presumably be 12th once Luck gets a new deal. (Luck's a FA after this year.) You can probably call it 13th since Brady took a hometown discount and I strongly suspect there's an under the table handshake to give him a slice of ownership after he retires.

Point is, Cutler is being paid right about what he should be for a starting qb of his caliber.
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The problem is that Cutler's caliber is that of a below-average starting quarterback.
 
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#19      

champaignchris

C
champaignchris
Bronson said:
The problem is that Cutler's caliber is that of a below-average starting quarterback.
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Below average?

There are a lot of really bad QBs in the league.

There are 10 I'd take over Cutler, no questions asked - Brees, Rothlisburger, Luck, Ryan, Rodgers, Rivers, Brady, Tannehill, Wilson, and Newton.

I'd take Cutler over Peyton Manning right now because Manning is two years removed from back surgery, recently admitted that he can't feel his fingers on his throwing hand, looked like his arm fell off in the last quarter of last season, and will turn 40 this year.

Eli Manning throws interceptions at the same rate as Cutler, with a lower career completion percentage, lower TD rate, lower yards per attempt and lower QB rating, despite playing for better teams. He's two years older and is paid more than Cutler.

Both last year, and for their respective careers, Cutler is better than Matt Stafford in almost every statistical category except interception rating. And there isn't enough of a difference there to make me want Stafford over Cutler this year. Obviously, Stafford is quite a bit younger and I'd prefer him long term.

Joe Flacco - see Matt Stafford.

Tony Romo is good-looking Jay Cutler. They could trade places and the results would be the same.

Andy Dalton is ginger Jay Cutler. They could trade places and the results would be the same.

A year ago, Kaepernick would have definitely been in the "No-doubt, want him more than Jay" category, but he's coming off an off-year and has a contract that makes Jay's look team-friendly by comparison. I'll be curious to see how he does this year with a significantly less talented team than he's had in the past.

Do we really need to talk about Teddy Bridgewater? Alex Smith?

Look, I'm not saying Cutler is an All Pro. All I'm saying is he's somewhere between the 11th and 17th best QB in the league, and depending on how you want to figure it (averaged total, average guaranteed total, cap hit this year, average cap hit, whatever), he's somewhere between the 10th and 16th highest paid qb in the league. His salary is not out of whack with his performance.
 
#20      

Bronson

B
Guest
Bronson
champaignchris said:
Below average?

There are a lot of really bad QBs in the league.

There are 10 I'd take over Cutler, no questions asked - Brees, Rothlisburger, Luck, Ryan, Rodgers, Rivers, Brady, Tannehill, Wilson, and Newton.

I'd take Cutler over Peyton Manning right now because Manning is two years removed from back surgery, recently admitted that he can't feel his fingers on his throwing hand, looked like his arm fell off in the last quarter of last season, and will turn 40 this year.

Eli Manning throws interceptions at the same rate as Cutler, with a lower career completion percentage, lower TD rate, lower yards per attempt and lower QB rating, despite playing for better teams. He's two years older and is paid more than Cutler.

Both last year, and for their respective careers, Cutler is better than Matt Stafford in almost every statistical category except interception rating. And there isn't enough of a difference there to make me want Stafford over Cutler this year. Obviously, Stafford is quite a bit younger and I'd prefer him long term.

Joe Flacco - see Matt Stafford.

Tony Romo is good-looking Jay Cutler. They could trade places and the results would be the same.

Andy Dalton is ginger Jay Cutler. They could trade places and the results would be the same.

A year ago, Kaepernick would have definitely been in the "No-doubt, want him more than Jay" category, but he's coming off an off-year and has a contract that makes Jay's look team-friendly by comparison. I'll be curious to see how he does this year with a significantly less talented team than he's had in the past.

Do we really need to talk about Teddy Bridgewater? Alex Smith?

Look, I'm not saying Cutler is an All Pro. All I'm saying is he's somewhere between the 11th and 17th best QB in the league, and depending on how you want to figure it (averaged total, average guaranteed total, cap hit this year, average cap hit, whatever), he's somewhere between the 10th and 16th highest paid qb in the league. His salary is not out of whack with his performance.
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I couldn't disagree more with everything that you wrote. But this would be an exhausting back-and-forth, so I'll refrain from elaborating on my opinion. There remains a certain segment of the Bears' fan base who will illogically defend Jay Cutler.

Besides the arbitrary rankings, the Cutler contract is ridiculous because Cutler is still the Bears starting quarterback. Their hands were tied, and the FO was forced to keep him, in spite of his ineptitude.
 
#21      

Serious Late

Serious Late
Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Serious Late
champaignchris said:
Below average?

There are a lot of really bad QBs in the league.

There are 10 I'd take over Cutler, no questions asked - Brees, Rothlisburger, Luck, Ryan, Rodgers, Rivers, Brady, Tannehill, Wilson, and Newton.

I'd take Cutler over Peyton Manning right now because Manning is two years removed from back surgery, recently admitted that he can't feel his fingers on his throwing hand, looked like his arm fell off in the last quarter of last season, and will turn 40 this year.

Eli Manning throws interceptions at the same rate as Cutler, with a lower career completion percentage, lower TD rate, lower yards per attempt and lower QB rating, despite playing for better teams. He's two years older and is paid more than Cutler.

Both last year, and for their respective careers, Cutler is better than Matt Stafford in almost every statistical category except interception rating. And there isn't enough of a difference there to make me want Stafford over Cutler this year. Obviously, Stafford is quite a bit younger and I'd prefer him long term.

Joe Flacco - see Matt Stafford.

Tony Romo is good-looking Jay Cutler. They could trade places and the results would be the same.

Andy Dalton is ginger Jay Cutler. They could trade places and the results would be the same.

A year ago, Kaepernick would have definitely been in the "No-doubt, want him more than Jay" category, but he's coming off an off-year and has a contract that makes Jay's look team-friendly by comparison. I'll be curious to see how he does this year with a significantly less talented team than he's had in the past.

Do we really need to talk about Teddy Bridgewater? Alex Smith?

Look, I'm not saying Cutler is an All Pro. All I'm saying is he's somewhere between the 11th and 17th best QB in the league, and depending on how you want to figure it (averaged total, average guaranteed total, cap hit this year, average cap hit, whatever), he's somewhere between the 10th and 16th highest paid qb in the league. His salary is not out of whack with his performance.
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I like Cutler. I seriously feel like one of the only remaining bears fans that appreciate him. That said, wut? There is nothing in your post suggesting he is better than any of the qbs you reference, just thoughts on why he might possibly not be worse than them. I think he still has some untapped potential and recognize that overpaying for QBs is an every year occurance, but man... there is nothing but pure homerism to look at the past results and suggest Cutler is an improvement on any of the other QBs mentioned in your post.
 
#22      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
I am a Cutler apologist, as I have mentioned before. I expect him to perform to his contract, and be rated somewhere in the teens. Also, I believe, all the guaranteed money is the first 3 years on his contract. After that, I believe the Bears can get rid of him at their whim. That is one of the benefits of his contract that benefitted both sides. They had no solution for 3 years and he got paid.
 
#23      

Bronson

B
Guest
Bronson
Illwinsagain said:
I am a Cutler apologist, as I have mentioned before. I expect him to perform to his contract, and be rated somewhere in the teens. Also, I believe, all the guaranteed money is the first 3 years on his contract. After that, I believe the Bears can get rid of him at their whim. That is one of the benefits of his contract that benefitted both sides. They had no solution for 3 years and he got paid.
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Cutler's contract forces the Bears to keep him this year. The Bears do not want Cutler. Again, because of the contract, they're stuck paying him a ridiculous sum of money - money that could have been better allocated to a bevy of productive players. The contract also forces the Bears to delay their transition to another QB.

The contract has already been devastating. It forces a team who will only win 6 games, to keep a below-average QB, whom they don't want.
 
#24      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
Bronson said:
Cutler's contract forces the Bears to keep him this year. The Bears do not want Cutler. Again, because of the contract, they're stuck paying him a ridiculous sum of money - money that could have been better allocated to a bevy of productive players. The contract also forces the Bears to delay their transition to another QB.

The contract has already been devastating. It forces a team who will only win 6 games, to keep a below-average QB, whom they don't want.
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They could have cut him last Winter, if they had any alternative. They simply do not have anyone that they would rather have that was available. Someone has to play QB, and getting a durable average QB is not easy. Also, I will take the over on 6 wins.
 
#25      

Illiniaaron

I
Geneseo, IL
Illiniaaron
I think ChampaignChris was basically correct in his ranking of NFL qb's and where Cutler sits among them. Cutler has been with the Bears so long now that those fans who like him and those who don't have formed concrete opinions about him. I think those who don't like him are disappointed that he never developed into an elite quarterback when hopes were so high after he came over from Denver. His jerky demeanor doesn't help his popularity. Also we are now seeing the third front office Cutler has played under and none of them has shown any interest in acquiring another qb through the draft or trade that could at least compete with Cutler which is also frustrating to some.