karmapoliceman
- STL, MO
And that's a problem. No recruit(s) is/are bigger than the program. There has to be some major silent verbal agreements in place to make this gamble even remotely worth it.
Groce/Whitman Press Conference
And that's a problem. No recruit(s) is/are bigger than the program. There has to be some major silent verbal agreements in place to make this gamble even remotely worth it.
frozenrope9190
- Aurora, IL
Sure seems like Nunn cut Groce's legs out from under him. Whether he pleads down or is convicted, his actions just sent the program into a tailspin. It was tenuous but still holding up to this point.
Understanding the more serious issue being the alleged domestic violence. But purely from a basketball standpoint, the timing could.not.have.been.worse, no matter the outcome.
Understanding the more serious issue being the alleged domestic violence. But purely from a basketball standpoint, the timing could.not.have.been.worse, no matter the outcome.
I thought it was a pretty disappointing PC, and no, I did not expect any changes. But both Whitman and Groce got pretty defensive on obvious questions with canned answers like "three (isolated) incidents," "kids will be kids and will make mistakes," "freedom of choice," and all the good things we do in our program.
It was obvious from the questions about culture, repeated incidents, severity of incidents, etc, that the audience was not really buying their responses. I mean c'mon, it has not been just 3 incidents, it has been multiple incidents in consecutive years, with repeated offenses and new information (previously covered up) surfacing. Paul had four incidents himself, and if not for the arrests, we would have not known about the previous 2 failed drug tests. There were multiple incidents and suspensions last year, with one player kicked off (Cosby). Then 4 serious incidents since this summer, with even more information (NK's suspended licence charges) surfacing that was previously covered up.
JMO but it was not a well prepared or convincing PC. I would have preferred directly addressing the problem (not the specific incidents), with direct admittance that there is indeed a problem, but we will take action, we will address the problem at its core with a more stern approach, we will establish an improved culture, and we are making changes -- rather than not admitting that we do have a deeper problem here.
But it is what it is, we have to move on. I hope despite this very mediocre PC, that indeed some actions will be taken within the program and a new culture will be instilled.
It was obvious from the questions about culture, repeated incidents, severity of incidents, etc, that the audience was not really buying their responses. I mean c'mon, it has not been just 3 incidents, it has been multiple incidents in consecutive years, with repeated offenses and new information (previously covered up) surfacing. Paul had four incidents himself, and if not for the arrests, we would have not known about the previous 2 failed drug tests. There were multiple incidents and suspensions last year, with one player kicked off (Cosby). Then 4 serious incidents since this summer, with even more information (NK's suspended licence charges) surfacing that was previously covered up.
JMO but it was not a well prepared or convincing PC. I would have preferred directly addressing the problem (not the specific incidents), with direct admittance that there is indeed a problem, but we will take action, we will address the problem at its core with a more stern approach, we will establish an improved culture, and we are making changes -- rather than not admitting that we do have a deeper problem here.
But it is what it is, we have to move on. I hope despite this very mediocre PC, that indeed some actions will be taken within the program and a new culture will be instilled.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
Agree. Ive always been a believer that punishment and treatment of players should be fair, not equal. i.e. if you have to cut bait on Tate but keep Nunn, I get it. But for both to happen in the same weeks span, I don't see how you could do this.
illinifan87
- The Windy City
Unless Groce turns things around significantly next year, once Whitman has his guy lined up Groce will be gone.
This press conference does 2 things. It buys Whitman another year to find a replacement if needed and it allows Groce to tell recruits that he's the coach, at least for another year.
Groce knows there's a lot of heat on him and that his job is not stable. Whitman knows that he's going big game hunting now without the pressure of needing to find a replacement right away.
Basically, he put the responsibility of this program entirely on Groce's shoulders. He's your public vote of confidence for recruiting but let me be clear, this is unacceptable so either improve things or you're gone.
This press conference does 2 things. It buys Whitman another year to find a replacement if needed and it allows Groce to tell recruits that he's the coach, at least for another year.
Groce knows there's a lot of heat on him and that his job is not stable. Whitman knows that he's going big game hunting now without the pressure of needing to find a replacement right away.
Basically, he put the responsibility of this program entirely on Groce's shoulders. He's your public vote of confidence for recruiting but let me be clear, this is unacceptable so either improve things or you're gone.
Seriously? You want the AD to say out loud in front of everybody whether or not he is going to fire the guy sitting right next to him, a year from now, if he doesn't get 20 wins. Has any AD ever said that out loud, if my coach doesn't get 20 wins I will fire him next year. Puh-leeze.
Joel Goodson
- ties will be resolved
Agenda much? (purely rhetorical question)
Joel Goodson
- ties will be resolved
Just felt too much heat surrounding the recklessness within the bball program and wanted to put recruits and alumni/fans at ease. That isn't easy to do, but they laid the foundation today. Moving forward, talk is cheap.
I think this PC was as much about JFW establishing himself as it was a vote of confidence. In other words, he is setting a precedent and a reputation for the future. Letting coaches who may or may not come here know the type of AD he is when stuff hits the fan. He now has something to point to if a prospective coach has questions about how he'll react if things go south in regards to events they have little control over.
frozenrope9190
- Aurora, IL
So we got this, Ward, for the 2 guys in question? Or has the momentum been permanently lost?
I'm not sure what people expected with regards to this press conference. Whitman is only going one of two ways...replace Groce or give him a strong vote of confidence. The strong vote of confidence happened. In terms of the questions surrounding culture...what do you expect them to say? "Yes, we have recognized an unacceptable culture within the basketball team." If Groce and Whitman came anywhere close to that then you might as well remove Groce because that's recruiting suicide.
illinifan87
- The Windy City
I think Groce wanted this press conference. I agree with you that anyone with some sense can see Groce's seat is on fire and there's a good chance he's gone after next season, but Groce needs some sort of ammunition to recruit with.
Whitman knows what he's doing and while it's not the scenario he prefers, he's looking long term.
If he fires Groce now, he damn well better have a replacement lined up or it becomes a Mike Thomas 'Hey Shaka, Hey Brad...damn, well then, Hey John!' hiring process, which would be a disaster.
Whitman seems like a resourceful guy too so I have no doubt he's going to exhaust all his connections to try and make inroads with the candidates at the top of his list, both in the NBA and in college.
illinifan87
- The Windy City
Was just about to post your first point. Exactly, why damage relationships with the 2017 recruits who Groce seems to be doing very well with?
If Groce can land Tilmon and Goodwin, that class becomes really good.
This is about the future of the Illini Program and it's a helluva lot better with all those guys aboard. Then, if Groce gets fired, hopefully the new coach can keep all the recruits from wanting to decommit. If they want to leave though Whitman can let them out of their LOI.
Peoria Illini
- Peoria, IL
JFG needs to get the verbals of Goodwin and Tilmon as quickly as he can. You know the other schools are using this crap against the Illini at every chance.
illinifan87
- The Windy City
If those 2 commit, they have to know that there's a good chance Groce might not last past this season.
Which would tell me that they are committing to the University of Illinois and not just Groce.
Agreed. Nunn most likely won't be on this team next season. We still have some good players, but hard to loose a Senior and second leading scorer.
His and fellow teammates actions off the court could potentially derail peoples lives and this program for a few years.
Bubba Eder
- Northeast Missouri
Are you talking about illinois being a top 15 team 5 years ago, I don't recall that. My memory has us doing a steady nose dive just after the 05 season and pretty much not seeing the top 25 after somewhere around 08. I could be wrong on that though, my wife let's me know all the time. Here's to hoping J.G. can get the ship back upright. GO ILLINI!!!!
If any NBA or other coach has been paying attention to the media, they've seen what the University of Illinois and JFW is willing to invest in. I feel a replacement may come a lot easier than the ever arrogant for no reason, Mike Thomas.
And know he would get his guy, not settle for numbers 3 and 4.
And know he would get his guy, not settle for numbers 3 and 4.
Kind of nuts how much Groce has lost the fan base. What a free fall.
AP story via USA Today. ..... What is that about there being no such thing as bad publicity? :suspicious:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-ad-gives-groce-another-endorsement/82228500/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-ad-gives-groce-another-endorsement/82228500/
Whitman had/has no other choice but to back Groce at this point without a Lovie type hire in the wings.
I think the end of the Groce era is less than a year away.
I think the end of the Groce era is less than a year away.