Harbaugh sideways with NCAA

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#126      
Dkayak
Here’s an idea: Just immediately allow any player on every team to receive signals via a smart watch. I’m sure teams could arrange secure connections. Then scUM and their ilk would have to win (more) honestly.

Is there ANY downside to this? Any reason not to do it? Maybe the B1G and NCAA will allow it to avoid having to discipline their anointed cash cow.
 
#127      
IlliniKat91
Dkayak said:
Here’s an idea: Just immediately allow any player on every team to receive signals via a smart watch. I’m sure teams could arrange secure connections. Then scUM and their ilk would have to win (more) honestly.

Is there ANY downside to this? Any reason not to do it? Maybe the B1G and NCAA will allow it to avoid having to discipline their anointed cash cow.
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The cost of multiple smart watches a game when they get destroyed comes to mind
 
#128      
Dkayak
IlliniKat91 said:
The cost of multiple smart watches a game when they get destroyed comes to mind
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Seems like peanuts, not even a rounoff error, compared to program expenses for other equipment, facilities, and staff salaries. I’m not suggesting a $500 Apple Watch, but more like a slim $100 Fitbit to which a short text signal is sent, so about $10,000 per 100 bands, at most $15,000 per season.

They‘re pretty indestructible. Athletes wear them full time in every sport. Mine has survived multiple mountain bike crashes. I’d be surprised if you had more than one or two per game damaged or destroyed. Wristbands are one of the technologies proposed along with helmet headsets. Pick something cheap and eliminate visual signals. Solved.
 
#129      
illiniwil
the NFL solution with microphones in the QB and D captain helmets seems to work fine.
its not like buying the technology is a problem. i wonder why the NCAA is waiting until
bowl season to get this done?
 
#130      
Dkayak
illiniwil said:
the NFL solution with microphones in the QB and D captain helmets seems to work fine.
its not like buying the technology is a problem. i wonder why the NCAA is waiting until
bowl season to get this done?
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That’s my frustration while reading all the hand-wringing over what to do. Signals could be very easily secured very quickly with any number of electronic methods. Anything would be an improvement. No committee needed, as you point out. Just do it. Why not? Maybe the NCAA has an aversion to mirroring the NFL?
 
#131      
Illini in Italy
illiniwil said:
the NFL solution with microphones in the QB and D captain helmets seems to work fine.
its not like buying the technology is a problem. i wonder why the NCAA is waiting until
bowl season to get this done?
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According to reports I've read, the NCAA and the universities are "worried about voiding warranties" and "removing player choice of a number of different manufacturer's helmets" as their lack of movement. Something I guess the NFL (and many high schools!) have already figured out. SMH . . .
 
#132      
Ransom Stoddard
Dkayak said:
That’s my frustration while reading all the hand-wringing over what to do. Signals could be very easily secured very quickly with any number of electronic methods. Anything would be an improvement. No committee needed, as you point out. Just do it. Why not? Maybe the NCAA has an aversion to mirroring the NFL?
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Electronic methods fail, and can also be intercepted (and far more anonymously than a guy sitting in the stands using a cell phone camera). "Live" signs from the sideline can also be changed on the fly without someone having to check their electronic device to see if the play got changed at the last second.

This is yet another situation where someone trying to gain an advantage "ruins it for everyone." Muck Fichigan, and Huck Farbaugh.
 
#133      
Dkayak
Ransom Stoddard said:
Electronic methods fail, and can also be intercepted (and far more anonymously than a guy sitting in the stands using a cell phone camera). "Live" signs from the sideline can also be changed on the fly without someone having to check their electronic device to see if the play got changed at the last second.

This is yet another situation where someone trying to gain an advantage "ruins it for everyone." Muck Fichigan, and Huck Farbaugh.
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The NFL has apparently concluded there is no risk. Interception of the encrypted signal yields only static. They’ve been used since 1994 so it’s not like this is unproven technology. Why shouldn't the NCAA just immediately allow it and let each team decide what they prefer to use? No harm in allowing a more secure option, right?
 
#134      
Ransom Stoddard
Dkayak said:
The NFL has apparently concluded there is no risk. Interception of the encrypted signal yields only static. They’ve been used since 1994 so it’s not like this is unproven technology. Why shouldn't the NCAA just immediately allow it and let each team decide what they prefer to use? No harm in allowing a more secure option, right?
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First, it's a matter of cost. The investment may be reasonable for some programs, but unreasonable for others. Why should small schools feel like they have to adopt expensive countermeasures because Fichigan can't play by the rules?

Second, technology is always changing. Signal callers and sign boards are pretty static. It kind of goes back to cost, but this introduces a technology arms battle into CFB that wouldn't be needed if Michigan Men lived up to their standard.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to introducing new technologies into the game, but to do it because Jim Harbaugh's ego demands that he cheats is the wrong reason.
 
#135      
Dkayak
The Program Cost Horse left the barn long before we built our Smith Center or hired a $6.5m coach. These systems are surely orders of magnitude less expensive. And I’m only suggesting allowing them, not requiring them.

Agree it would be good to sharply discipline deliberate rule-breakers but don’t hold your breath. As noted earlier, Michigan is a highly favored cash cow and therefore subject to different standards.

Technology is constantly changing but signal calling is so simple as to be immune to obsolescence. It’s not like feeling the urge to upgrade my five-year old iPhone to get a better camera or faster processor. Somewhere in my ski gear box is a pair of mid-1990’s Motorola radios, long since made obsolete by cell phones. If I put batteries in them, they’d function just as well as they did 30 years ago. There’s not much to become obsolete in helmet headsets. In 2013 my wife and I installed helmet intercoms to communicate between our two motorcycles. They’ll function as designed until the hardware fails.

I’m suggesting allowing the technology because it cuts off another avenue for cheating by Harbaugh and his ilk. I have little confidence in punishment or deterrence. Lock the door, or more accurately, allow it to be locked.
 
#136      
TentakilRex
Crazy idea: I wonder if Bielema was the one of the whistleblowers? Heck he tweeted a lot of shade on Michigan especially last year's game...
 
#138      
Fuze
Ransom Stoddard said:
First, it's a matter of cost. The investment may be reasonable for some programs, but unreasonable for others. Why should small schools feel like they have to adopt expensive countermeasures because Fichigan can't play by the rules?

Second, technology is always changing. Signal callers and sign boards are pretty static. It kind of goes back to cost, but this introduces a technology arms battle into CFB that wouldn't be needed if Michigan Men lived up to their standard.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to introducing new technologies into the game, but to do it because Jim Harbaugh's ego demands that he cheats is the wrong reason.
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Granted, my experience with wireless sound equipment is rather limited, but from what I do know, typically the wireless receivers and relay equipment is the expensive item, not the speakers. The fact they go into helmets may change that, but I think it's unlikely that it would add enough cost to make that big of a difference. Most, if not every school to visit Memorial Stadium in the last 3 years (since (I've paid attention) has had the big CoachCom (or some variation, but 95% CoachCom) cart on their sideline right on the 50. The cart houses all the equipment for wireless connection and relay between headsets on the sidelines and headsets in the booths. This is almost certainly the expensive part of the headset setups and even FCS schools like Chatanooga have them. Realistically, you could connect the players to this same system and it would save teams a boatload of cash. This is probably what teams would do if the NCAA were to switch to this.

The real reason I'm reading that coaches have consistently voted against this tho is because sign stealing in-game is legal, everyone does it, and they don't want to lose it. I also would imagine that some schools are better at this than others and those coaches are probably extra against helmet speakers. So really the potential cost for the programs is probably irrelevant.
 
#139      
illiniwil
Illini in Italy said:
According to reports I've read, the NCAA and the universities are "worried about voiding warranties" and "removing player choice of a number of different manufacturer's helmets" as their lack of movement. Something I guess the NFL (and many high schools!) have already figured out. SMH . . .
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NFL is at the front leading head protection. i can only imagine the problem is helmet sponsorships and the money involved!
 
#140      
Dkayak
Interesting. Coming to bowl games? Already used by some high schools? Hadn’t heard that elsewhere.
www.al.com

SEC coaches on helmet radios amid Michigan sign-stealing: ‘We eventually catch up’

As sideline monitoring becomes a national topic, SEC coaches weighed in on the widely-used practice of helmet communicators that can negate sign-stealing,
www.al.com www.al.com
“CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd reported that teams will have the option to implement a helmet communicator in the upcoming bowl season. That potentially makes the Michigan scandal a watershed moment that would, as Kiffin aforementioned, allow colleges to catch up to a practice common at the NFL and even some high schools.”
 
#141      
Calvin
Curious if anyone thinks Michigan is getting selective enforcement on this. I heard one sportscaster say the NCAA has nothing left but their ego, so you better believe they are going to investigate Harbaugh until they find something they can make stick. And Harbaugh will gladly go to the NFL rather than back down if they get hit with something serious.
 
#142      
illiniwil
somebody mentioned the cost of the this helmet comm systems... what a joke. this is a multi billion dollar
where there's enough money is floating around to buy comm equipment for every D1-3 and high school
team.
 
#143      
MDchicago
Calvin said:
Curious if anyone thinks Michigan is getting selective enforcement on this. I heard one sportscaster say the NCAA has nothing left but their ego, so you better believe they are going to investigate Harbaugh until they find something they can make stick. And Harbaugh will gladly go to the NFL rather than back down if they get hit with something serious.
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Maybe, certainly plenty of sideline video of Michigan coaches and coordinators has surfaced in the process of making the case against them. 🤷‍♂️

If nothing else, Michigan earned the scrutiny by doing 10x over what some other teams might only have thought of. Gaining an unfair advantage and doing it so blatantly with the hubris of the entitled (and then deny, deny, deny when questioned) makes it hard for me to feel sorry for them.
 
#144      
Dkayak
MDchicago said:
Gaining an unfair advantage and doing it so blatantly with the hubris of the entitled (and then deny, deny, deny when questioned) makes it hard for me to feel sorry for them.
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Correct. Their unfair advantage on the field translates to reputation, giving them an unfair recruiting advantage. Any sanctions should be calibrated to offset that unfair recruiting advantage, plus punitive effect. If B1G or the NCAA wants to discourage future egregious rule-breaking they’ll impose punishment aimed at about 3X the unfair advantage, realizing it’s subjective.

Here’s more on how the investigation began. Ideally any of the coaches involved (per the computers) will be fired and banned.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-ncaa-suspicion-started-accessed-220807455.html

The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, according to two people familiar with the matter, evidence that suggests the scandal’s impact could broaden beyond the suspension of one low-level assistant.
These people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about an ongoing NCAA investigation. They did not disclose who hired the outside firm that approached the NCAA. The NCAA, the Big Ten and Michigan declined to comment.
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#145      
LFOD
I found this sentence particularly interesting:

"They did not disclose who hired the outside firm that approached the NCAA."
 
#146      
Dkayak
Will be interesting to see if Sargent Schultz is one of the names on those hard drives.
 
#147      
Birdus
Dkayak said:
Correct. Their unfair advantage on the field translates to reputation, giving them an unfair recruiting advantage. Any sanctions should be calibrated to offset that unfair recruiting advantage, plus punitive effect. If B1G or the NCAA wants to discourage future egregious rule-breaking they’ll impose punishment aimed at about 3X the unfair advantage, realizing it’s subjective.

Here’s more on how the investigation began. Ideally any of the coaches involved (per the computers) will be fired and banned.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-ncaa-suspicion-started-accessed-220807455.html
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I hope Harbaugh goes to the league next year. A new staff would come in and start over. Hopefully, Michigan will have a hot mess on their hands with sanctions and penalties over the course of the next few year :)
 
#148      
Illini in Italy
LFOD said:
I found this sentence particularly interesting:

"They did not disclose who hired the outside firm that approached the NCAA."
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