Illini Basketball

Boomauer · Mar 22, 2022

FrankNitty30 said:
But at the end of the day, whatever he was showing the coaches in practice was not enough for him to get in the game. When he did play he was rather…. Meh. I want him to stay. I want him to grow and become a huge player on a championship team. But if a freshman transfers out because of a lack of playing team kn a team this deep…. So be it.

Podz did make a huge 3 against NW that probably sealed the win. Kid has a lot of confidence and showed it in that instance. Didn't get many other chances to shine. It'll be fun to watch him next year ...he seems to love it here. Hope he's in the coach's plans.

Also....i don't think Podz dad has posted here in quite some time...really hope that's not a bad sign.

SeattleSlim · Mar 22, 2022

JFGsCoffeeMug said:

Thank you for sharing this! One point regarding the woman with the high percentage … she’s using a slightly smaller ball. All other things (body motion, arc, etc.) being equal, that increases her odds of getting the ball through the hoop. Adding a physicist’s take to the video would be a plus, but I still liked it a lot. Nash and Barry are two of my all-time favorites.

DMWSuperFan · Mar 22, 2022

mattcoldagelli said:
I mean, not really, because those 22 years also saw tons of teams getting to the Final Four and seven teams playing for a national title.

The PAC-12 hasn't had a national champion since 1997. Why is no one bemoaning that "PAC-12 style of play"?

Probably also tied to the fact that the pac 12 doesn’t make the claim they are the best basketball conference

SeattleSlim · Mar 22, 2022

DMWSuperFan said:
Probably also tied to the fact that the pac 12 doesn’t make the claim they are the best basketball conference

But they are “the conference of champions“!!!

Salvo · Mar 22, 2022

This is a team that, despite having one of the better big men in the country, and a number of good three-point shooters, never figured out how to effectively pass out of a double team or to consistently use guard penetration to get the ball to Kofi or to dish out for open threes. The times that the Illini did that it almost seemed accidental.

Another issue was the lack of a true point guard quarterbacking the offense---how often did we have to watch Coleman Hawkins bringing the ball upcourt?

The Illini also do a poor job of maintaining a flow with the ball: get it, and do something---either drive, pass or shoot. Instead, they stand around and dribble, waiting to try a lob into the post or taking a bad shot as the shot clock winds down.

To me this all boils down to either coaching, or the players' inability to execute a game plan. I can't say Underwood's a poor game coach, but if he's not he has players who aren't able to put his coaching into action.

doowink · Mar 22, 2022

blackdog said:
Haven't seen this posted yet. Obviously a lot of emotions right after the game but man BU just seems like the kind of guy we want as a leader.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506058064453066754

Sometimes we refer to players as dogs....If I were a dog on this team this would be me

Bleedorangeandblue44 · Mar 22, 2022

Saw someone post yesterday on listening to the Score yesterday and hearing Holmes and Bernstein bash the Illinois program. Was frustrating to hear that but not surprising considering the two hosts. I told myself to make sure to listen to ESPN 1000 today instead of 670.

Of course I didn't follow my own advice. Isn't any better this morning on Mully and Haugh after they have Kendall Gill on to talk about the Bulls. Kendall is asked at the end of the interview about Kofi and what he should do next year and Kendall says come back to school and work on developing a couple things that will serve him well in the NBA. Kendall gets off the air and then Mully basically says Kofi should enter transfer portal and find somewhere else to play. Then they take like two callers who think the freshmen should transfer too because they didn't get a chance to play this year and what a bad coach Underwood is. Hello, does anybody remember the Groce years? Illinois just won the Big Ten for the 1st time in 17 years and all it gets is crapped on. It is really something living in the Chicago area what brutal coverage Illinois gets in its own state.

DMWSuperFan · Mar 22, 2022

Salvo said:
This is a team that, despite having one of the better big men in the country, and a number of good three-point shooters, never figured out how to effectively pass out of a double team or to consistently use guard penetration to get the ball to Kofi or to dish out for open threes. The times that the Illini did that it almost seemed accidental.

Another issue was the lack of a true point guard quarterbacking the offense---how often did we have to watch Coleman Hawkins bringing the ball upcourt?

The Illini also do a poor job of maintaining a flow with the ball: get it, and do something---either drive, pass or shoot. Instead, they stand around and dribble, waiting to try a lob into the post or taking a bad shot as the shot clock winds down.

To me this all boils down to either coaching, or the players' inability to execute a game plan. I can't say Underwood's a poor game coach, but if he's not he has players who aren't able to put his coaching into action.

Or maybe the fact that our “good” 3 point shooters did not have much height/length, so smaller windows to shoot, more contested shots, and some streakiness to our game.

Curbelo can be great, but even he struggled to get to the hoop against a long, athletic Houston team.

The pieces are coming together, but outside of Kofi and curbelo, most of the meaningful minutes went to guys WAY outplaying their ranking. I would say coaching got the most out of some teams that, on paper, looked significantly less talented than the teams they beat en route to a big ten championship.

altgeld88 · Mar 22, 2022

Boomauer said:
Podz did make a huge 3 against NW that probably sealed the win. Kid has a lot of confidence and showed it in that instance. Didn't get many other chances to shine. It'll be fun to watch him next year ...he seems to love it here. Hope he's in the coach's plans.

Also....i don't think Podz dad has posted here in quite some time...really hope that's not a bad sign.

If I were the father of an Illini player I'd avoid posting. Lots of support, positivity, and gratitude amidst, unfortunately, a great deal of steaming hot takes and bile.

I really liked what Podz brought when he was on the floor and project that he'll get lots more exposure next season.

altgeld88 · Mar 22, 2022

DMWSuperFan said:
Or maybe the fact that our “good” 3 point shooters did not have much height/length, so smaller windows to shoot, more contested shots, and some streakiness to our game.

Curbelo can be great, but even he struggled to get to the hoop against a long, athletic Houston team.

The pieces are coming together, but outside of Kofi and curbelo, most of the meaningful minutes went to guys WAY outplaying their ranking. I would say coaching got the most out of some teams that, on paper, looked significantly less talented than the teams they beat en route to a big ten championship.

Sorry to double-post. Can't endorse this^ enough. What BU did with this amalgam of players during a season when his top players lost so much time to injury is nothing short of miraculous. They won a title based largely on grit, determination, and savvy. I'm disgusted at some of the hot takes on this team from posters who showed up only after we were eliminated and seem not to understand, let alone to have every played, competitive basketball. As BU notes in that excellent locker room video, this program was dead and buried in '17. Anyone remember the Eastern Illinois game? Trent and DMW so far exceeded their projected ceilings that it's just ridiculous, and Trent played hurt all this past season.

These guys won a Big Ten regular season title over 20 games. The team finished one game off the title in '20 in a 20-game season. And, as we all know, they played all 20 games last season and rightfully won the regular season title, which was awarded to a team playing only 17. When has an Illini program ever done that? Never. 16 games in '05 and the previous seasons when we won it.

I feel nothing but gratitude and admiration for these guys and their coaches. We'll look back on them as the bedrock of BU's tenure here. How anyone can fail to be optimistic and grateful at this point leaves me dumbfounded.

Dbell1981 · Mar 22, 2022

DMWSuperFan said:
Can we maybe just once not set sky high expectations for a kid based on 40 minutes of his freshman season?

Hopefully we have some Skyy high expectations on the roster next fall!

HailtotheChief · Mar 22, 2022

DMWSuperFan said:
Sorry, to clarify, I mean NBA star power, ie lottery picks.

Yes. Big ten produces some of the best college players.

I think the B10 is likely to have 2 lottery picks or very close to it but I haven't looked at mocks. I'd said Ivey and Murray both are elite talents.

JMoser16 · Mar 22, 2022

For the upcoming season I’d like to see Coleman work on his 3-Pt shooting and if Kofi comes back he has to work on his passing. If both of those happen I think we’ll be a title contender

BBIQ · Mar 22, 2022

Bleedorangeandblue44 said:
Saw someone post yesterday on listening to the Score yesterday and hearing Holmes and Bernstein bash the Illinois program. Was frustrating to hear that but not surprising considering the two hosts. I told myself to make sure to listen to ESPN 1000 today instead of 670.

Of course I didn't follow my own advice. Isn't any better this morning on Mully and Haugh after they have Kendall Gill on to talk about the Bulls. Kendall is asked at the end of the interview about Kofi and what he should do next year and Kendall says come back to school and work on developing a couple things that will serve him well in the NBA. Kendall gets off the air and then Mully basically says Kofi should enter transfer portal and find somewhere else to play. Then they take like two callers who think the freshmen should transfer too because they didn't get a chance to play this year and what a bad coach Underwood is. Hello, does anybody remember the Groce years? Illinois just won the Big Ten for the 1st time in 17 years and all it gets is crapped on. It is really something living in the Chicago area what brutal coverage Illinois gets in its own state.

What was Bernstein's take? He is a total jerk but a smart guy.

Retro62 · Mar 22, 2022

A lot said about AC…good and bad. I didn’t like the shots he took against UH, but I was more frustrated by the shots others wouldn’t take. Also, if we run more next year, he is the guy you want leading that offense.

GBIllini · Mar 22, 2022

altgeld88 said:
Sorry to double-post. Can't endorse this^ enough. What BU did with this amalgam of players during a season when his top players lost so much time to injury is nothing short of miraculous. They won a title based largely on grit, determination, and savvy. I'm disgusted at some of the hot takes on this team from posters who showed up only after we were eliminated and seem not to understand, let alone to have every played, competitive basketball. As BU notes in that excellent locker room video, this program was dead and buried in '17. Anyone remember the Eastern Illinois game? Trent and DMW so far exceeded their projected ceilings that it's just ridiculous, and Trent played hurt all this past season.

These guys won a Big Ten regular season title over 20 games. The team finished one game off the title in '20 in a 20-game season. And, as we all know, they played all 20 games last season and rightfully won the regular season title, which was awarded to a team playing only 17. When has an Illini program ever done that? Never. 16 games in '05 and the previous seasons when we won it.

I feel nothing but gratitude and admiration for these guys and their coaches. We'll look back on them as the bedrock of BU's tenure here. How anyone can fail to be optimistic and grateful at this point leaves me dumbfounded.

Well said

purcy51 · Mar 22, 2022

Bleedorangeandblue44 said:
Saw someone post yesterday on listening to the Score yesterday and hearing Holmes and Bernstein bash the Illinois program. Was frustrating to hear that but not surprising considering the two hosts. I told myself to make sure to listen to ESPN 1000 today instead of 670.

Of course I didn't follow my own advice. Isn't any better this morning on Mully and Haugh after they have Kendall Gill on to talk about the Bulls. Kendall is asked at the end of the interview about Kofi and what he should do next year and Kendall says come back to school and work on developing a couple things that will serve him well in the NBA. Kendall gets off the air and then Mully basically says Kofi should enter transfer portal and find somewhere else to play. Then they take like two callers who think the freshmen should transfer too because they didn't get a chance to play this year and what a bad coach Underwood is. Hello, does anybody remember the Groce years? Illinois just won the Big Ten for the 1st time in 17 years and all it gets is crapped on. It is really something living in the Chicago area what brutal coverage Illinois gets in its own state.

Seems like in most respects these days negativity drives talk shows. Draws ears & eyeballs. It's all about the clicks, etc. I quit listening to most of them years ago. If someone has a rational, well thought out argument I'll listen, but that is rare.

DMWSuperFan · Mar 22, 2022

HailtotheChief said:
I think the B10 is likely to have 2 lottery picks or very close to it but I haven't looked at mocks. I'd said Ivey and Murray both are elite talents.

Yes. A bit of an anomaly as far as the big ten goes in regards to the nba draft. Typically we have less top end talent, more 3-4 year players.

Johnny Davis is getting a lot of love in mocks drafts too. But it’s worth noting - this year will likely see the most draft picks in the 1st round from the big ten in history.

pruman91 · Mar 22, 2022

I sure hope none of the critics of Belo's play this year ever have a concussion and experience continuing problems from it for a couple month's , then when you start feeling better that you don't contract the covid virus .....I really really don't ...................................

Give it a rest people................................Let him recuperate until October , then if he is still not meeting your approval , then blast him ........

jmho

Hope4better · Mar 22, 2022

JMoser16 said:
For the upcoming season I’d like to see Coleman work on his 3-Pt shooting and if Kofi comes back he has to work on his passing. If both of those happen I think we’ll be a title contender

Hawkins three point shot is too flat. He needs to get more arch on the ball if he’s ever going to be a better three point shooter

BBIQ · Mar 22, 2022

Bleedorangeandblue44 said:
Saw someone post yesterday on listening to the Score yesterday and hearing Holmes and Bernstein bash the Illinois program. Was frustrating to hear that but not surprising considering the two hosts. I told myself to make sure to listen to ESPN 1000 today instead of 670.

Of course I didn't follow my own advice. Isn't any better this morning on Mully and Haugh after they have Kendall Gill on to talk about the Bulls. Kendall is asked at the end of the interview about Kofi and what he should do next year and Kendall says come back to school and work on developing a couple things that will serve him well in the NBA. Kendall gets off the air and then Mully basically says Kofi should enter transfer portal and find somewhere else to play. Then they take like two callers who think the freshmen should transfer too because they didn't get a chance to play this year and what a bad coach Underwood is. Hello, does anybody remember the Groce years? Illinois just won the Big Ten for the 1st time in 17 years and all it gets is crapped on. It is really something living in the Chicago area what brutal coverage Illinois gets in its own state.

Found Bernstein's comments. I don't think he was bagging on us unfairly. I think he was being sincere and made some decent points. Here is what he said.

Underwood has done a nice job putting a floor in for the program. Didn't say he stinks or anything. Just needs to adjust his system.

Here were his criticisms.

1. Don't set enough ball screens for guards to get good shots or get to the basket. (fair)

2. System 4 out 1 in is a dated offense and easy to guard. (I think this was a product of personnel and Bernstein doesn’t get that)

3. How can you complain about defensive rebounding when you have 4 guys around the arc. (fair)

4. Sampson went to the NBA to learn offense. High pick n roll leads to open corner 3's. We don't use the corner well.

5. Don't get anything going downhill. We don't have guards that can take their man off the dribble so you need to set more screens.

6. Shouldn't have benched Curbelo, I know he played like garbage but he's a high variance guy and he could play us back into the game. Said, if I'm Curbelo I'm gone. Transferring immediately. How could you trust Underwood after that? Said maybe there is something else there we don’t know about. (TCTORNADO said there was an argument with staff at half so…)

7. Can’t come out of a timeout and make an end bound pass (fair point). You can't turn the ball over when you are the one initiating the action.

8. Underwood's done some great things but has to adjust. You had two all-time greats in program history 2 years in a row and have nothing to show for it.

IllGuardU · Mar 22, 2022

altgeld88 said:
Sorry to double-post. Can't endorse this^ enough. What BU did with this amalgam of players during a season when his top players lost so much time to injury is nothing short of miraculous. They won a title based largely on grit, determination, and savvy. I'm disgusted at some of the hot takes on this team from posters who showed up only after we were eliminated and seem not to understand, let alone to have every played, competitive basketball. As BU notes in that excellent locker room video, this program was dead and buried in '17. Anyone remember the Eastern Illinois game? Trent and DMW so far exceeded their projected ceilings that it's just ridiculous, and Trent played hurt all this past season.

These guys won a Big Ten regular season title over 20 games. The team finished one game off the title in '20 in a 20-game season. And, as we all know, they played all 20 games last season and rightfully won the regular season title, which was awarded to a team playing only 17. When has an Illini program ever done that? Never. 16 games in '05 and the previous seasons when we won it.

I feel nothing but gratitude and admiration for these guys and their coaches. We'll look back on them as the bedrock of BU's tenure here. How anyone can fail to be optimistic and grateful at this point leaves me dumbfounded.

POTD

HailtotheChief · Mar 22, 2022

DMWSuperFan said:
Yes. A bit of an anomaly as far as the big ten goes in regards to the nba draft. Typically we have less top end talent, more 3-4 year players.

Johnny Davis is getting a lot of love in mocks drafts too. But it’s worth noting - this year will likely see the most draft picks in the 1st round from the big ten in history.

I dont think so. Without looking I think Gills year had at least 5 and she me others maybe more. The B10 was very tough back then

bluemountain · Mar 22, 2022

Now that the dust has settled and I can look back on the year objectively, we definitely overachieved during the regular season. In terms of talent, UM and PU were clearly a level above everyone else, with OSU and MSU, maybe Iowa in the next tier. After that you have us, Wisky, IU and Rutgers. So the fact we tied for the championship is pretty impressive. Kofi and an underrated defense made up for some serious deficiencies elsewhere. If I could request one do-over, it would be to start transitioning RJ and Goode in place of Plummer and DMW earlier in the season so that by year-end they were more even in terms of minutes. I love what both DMW and Plummer brought to the table, but the reality is while combined they make one heck of a player, individually they are role players who should be playing 15 or so minutes/game. RJ and Goode have far higher upside and it would have been interesting to see how they would have performed had they seen more minutes earlier on. However, that is a small criticism in the grand scheme of things; winning the Big 10 with AC less than his normal self and all the other injuries, etc was impressive.

Bleedorangeandblue44 · Mar 22, 2022

BBIQ said:
Found Bernstein's comments. I don't think he was bagging on us unfairly. I think he was being sincere and made some decent points. Here is what he said.

Underwood has done a nice job putting a floor in for the program. Didn't say he stinks or anything. Just needs to adjust his system.

Here were his criticisms.

1. Don't set enough ball screens for guards to get good shots or get to the basket. (fair)

2. System 4 out 1 in is a dated offense and easy to guard. (I think this was a product of personnel and Bernstein doesn’t get that)

3. How can you complain about defensive rebounding when you have 4 guys around the arc. (fair)

4. Sampson went to the NBA to learn offense. High pick n roll leads to open corner 3's. We don't use the corner well.

5. Don't get anything going downhill. We don't have guards that can take their man off the dribble so you need to set more screens.

6. Shouldn't have benched Curbelo, I know he played like garbage but he's a high variance guy and he could play us back into the game. Said, if I'm Curbelo I'm gone. Transferring immediately. How could you trust Underwood after that? Said maybe there is something else there we don’t know about. (TCTORNADO said there was an argument with staff at half so…)

7. Can’t come out of a timeout and make an end bound pass (fair point). You can't turn the ball over when you are the one initiating the action.

8. Underwood's done some great things but has to adjust. You had two all-time greats in program history 2 years in a row and have nothing to show for it.

Thanks for recap - I had only heard the Mully show this morning and was going off a poster on yesterday's show.

I will say No. 8 is ridiculous. I mean it's a product of the NCAA Tournament of being the be all and end all to so many people, but winning the Big Ten tournament and Big Ten regular season in back-to-back years and all the great Big Ten wins it took to do that (especially on the road and especially against rivals like Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, MSU and Indiana who have been killing us for about 10 straight years), that is not "nothing to show for it." The last three years really with Ayo and Kofi, I can't imagine there's anyone here who thinks we have "nothing to show" for all the great play those two and others have displayed.

Just got to find a way to combine the regular season Big Ten success with tournament success, which I'm sure is everyone inside the program's sole focus right now. Whether it's raising talent level, changing schemes...I trust they are going to get it right.