Graphically, it's pretty clear that in the grand scheme of recent Illini hoops teams, Underwood is neither late-years Weber nor Self.
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The issue with Brad is he has a 31-45 high major conference record without Kofi Cockburn.
Graphically, it's pretty clear that in the grand scheme of recent Illini hoops teams, Underwood is neither late-years Weber nor Self.
View attachment 24464
You don’t think having to rebuild had something to do with that?The issue with Brad is he has a 31-45 high major conference record without Kofi Cockburn.
The issue with Brad is he has a 31-45 high major conference record without Kofi Cockburn.
The issue with Brad is he has a 31-45 high major conference record without Kofi Cockburn.
You don’t think having to rebuild had something to do with that?
Right. The dumpster fire he inherited is irrelevant. Brilliant.
The issue with Brad is he has a 31-45 high major conference record without Kofi Cockburn.
I think he was talking about the OP excluding the years that we had Kofi.I don't think you know what that means.
You know Malcolm Hill left after that year right? So the team that underwood coached the following year was significantly worse. It's not revisionist history at all.John Groce went 18-14 (8-10) in the Big 10 the year he was fired. It’s revisionist history to claim that’s a “dumpster fire”. It was a mediocre Big 10 team, that Underwood somehow made worse before Kofi arrived.
Before Kofi arrived, Underwood in conference went:
4–14
7-13
After Kofi leaves, Underwood goes:
20–13 (11-9). A record better than what got Groce fired for, but not that much better.
Did you expect a first year coach to make a roster that lost its top 4 scorers better?John Groce went 18-14 (8-10) in the Big 10 the year he was fired. It’s revisionist history to claim that’s a “dumpster fire”. It was a mediocre Big 10 team, that Underwood somehow made worse before Kofi arrived.
Before Kofi arrived, Underwood in conference went:
4–14
7-13
After Kofi leaves, Underwood goes:
20–13 (11-9). A record better than what got Groce fired for, but not that much better.
You know Malcolm Hill left after that year right? So the team that underwood coached the following year was significantly worse. It's not revisionist history at all.
Did you expect a first year coach to make a roster that lost its top 4 scorers better?
John Groce went 15-19 and 5-13 the year before he was fired, and 19-14/9-9 the year before that. He never won 20 games in a season with his own recruits (which were clearly not high D1 caliber), but you're going to blast Underwood for not turning Groce's roster into world beaters in a year?John Groce went 18-14 (8-10) in the Big 10 the year he was fired. It’s revisionist history to claim that’s a “dumpster fire”. It was a mediocre Big 10 team, that Underwood somehow made worse before Kofi arrived.
Before Kofi arrived, Underwood in conference went:
4–14
7-13
After Kofi leaves, Underwood goes:
20–13 (11-9). A record better than what got Groce fired for, but not that much better.
I think you think I was referring to your post instead of to the post on top.I don't think you know what that means.
That team should have been much, much better than it was.You know Malcolm Hill left after that year right? So the team that underwood coached the following year was significantly worse. It's not revisionist history at all.
your right it was a HUGE dumpster fire. The cupboard was f'ing bare when BU got hereJohn Groce went 18-14 (8-10) in the Big 10 the year he was fired. It’s revisionist history to claim that’s a “dumpster fire”. It was a mediocre Big 10 team, that Underwood somehow made worse before Kofi arrived.
Before Kofi arrived, Underwood in conference went:
4–14
7-13
After Kofi leaves, Underwood goes:
20–13 (11-9). A record better than what got Groce fired for, but not that much better.
John Groce went 18-14 (8-10) in the Big 10 the year he was fired. It’s revisionist history to claim that’s a “dumpster fire”. It was a mediocre Big 10 team, that Underwood somehow made worse before Kofi arrived.
Before Kofi arrived, Underwood in conference went:
4–14
7-13
After Kofi leaves, Underwood goes:
20–13 (11-9). A record better than what got Groce fired for, but not that much better.
2017-2018? They had Leron Black and not much else.That team should have been much, much better than it was.
It has been a bumpy ride but the fullness of their tenures has shown very, very clearly the relative caliber of Groce and Underwood as coaches.
Underwood, even this year, keeps winning the kinds of gutty slugfest games against good teams that post-Dee Weber and Groce virtually never did
With a very good class coming in. dumpster fire is not where the program wasYou know Malcolm Hill left after that year right? So the team that underwood coached the following year was significantly worse. It's not revisionist history at all.
Trent was great as a freshman, DMFW eventually became a big time contributor, other than that what was so good about that class?With a very good class coming in. dumpster fire is not where the program was
I’m not impugning Brad’s coaching if what stayed, but Groce had more coming back on the court than just Black. Jordan, JCL and kipper, plus a stud class coming in. They didn’t all come and JCL left when Groce was fired, but it was not a “dumpster fire” under him when he got fired. I’m very glad he got fired but I agree it’s revisionist history that the program was a dumpster fireTrent was great as a freshman, DMFW eventually became a big time contributor, other than that what was so good about that class?
The starting five of that first year team was freshman Trent, Te'Jon Lucas, Mark Alstork, Leron Black, and Michael Finke. Sorry man, that was a bad team. I mean Greg Eboigbodin started two games.
The guy never had a winning record in conference play. Not once. For a program with UI's rich history, that qualifies as a dumpster fire in my opinion.I’m not impugning Brad’s coaching if what stayed, but Groce had more coming back on the court than just Black. Jordan, JCL and kipper, plus a stud class coming in. They didn’t all come and JCL left when Groce was fired, but it was not a “dumpster fire” under him when he got fired. I’m very glad he got fired but I agree it’s revisionist history that the program was a dumpster fire
That’s what happens when you take out the two best seasons. So they don’t count?The issue with Brad is he has a 31-45 high major conference record without Kofi Cockburn.
Flatlined? He had to replace 85% of every major statistical category. He lost all five starters and his sixth man. Of those was a first team All American and four seniors. He put a team together, on the fly, of freshmen and transfers. He figured out 20 wins and an NCAA bid.Excellent. The question for us BU diehards, is what direction is his program headed. I am concerned that his program may have flatlined.
I’m not impugning Brad’s coaching if what stayed, but Groce had more coming back on the court than just Black. Jordan, JCL and kipper, plus a stud class coming in. They didn’t all come and JCL left when Groce was fired, but it was not a “dumpster fire” under him when he got fired. I’m very glad he got fired but I agree it’s revisionist history that the program was a dumpster fire
And it's not like freshman year Trent was a lockdown defender. Fun as hell to watch on offense but needed that time with Fletch.Trent was great as a freshman, DMFW eventually became a big time contributor, other than that what was so good about that class?
The starting five of that first year team was freshman Trent, Te'Jon Lucas, Mark Alstork, Leron Black, and Michael Finke. Sorry man, that was a bad team. I mean Greg Eboigbodin started two games.