Illinois 85, Michigan 69 POSTGAME

#226      

Bailey

Los Angeles
Enlighten me then.Tell me his weakness.

I didn't watch yesterday's game, but his general IQ needs work. From the highlights it looks like he was handling ball screens a lot better vs. Michigan. He got burned a few times helping off shooters vs IU.
 
#228      
Ok..I respect that.I noticed that he closed on the ball very quickly and fought through screens very well.I just don't think he's quite the liability on defense that some do.
 
#230      
I'm not going to go re-watch the tape, but it's not hard to imagine that he missed off-ball rotations/help, switches, etc. I've advocated for TJL to get minutes as long as anyone, but it's entirely common for true frosh to struggle defensively.



But, just to answer your question with a specific point, he will always be limited as a defender by his size. He doesn't have great or elite quickness to make up for it (which will also limit his ceiling a little bit offensively), but he does have great feel for the game that helps him overcome the size/athleticism deficiencies, which is entirely welcome as quite a few guys on our roster do not have similar feel.



His quickness seemed pretty damn great to me yesterday.
 
#232      
This was awesome to watch. Abrams-Jalen-Kipper-Hill-Black is the lineup I'd like to see. If Kipper is that scrappy all the time, I'd love to see he and Leron down low taking offensive boards from bigs.
 
#234      

Deleted member 29907

D
Guest
His quickness seemed pretty damn great to me yesterday.

Agree - sometimes I feel like we're watching a different player.

TJL is doing just fine on D, he's rotating over, working to get over the top of screens and anticipating (the tips). We, as a team, do not get many steals. We're decent at digging for the ball and being the first on the ground for lose balls, but straight out anticipation steals - few. TA has some, TJL is improving.

He's not completely there yet on D, but hey, I'll that the minor difference now for the experience to get there and the massive improvement in running the O when he's in there.
 
#235      

Deleted member 29907

D
Guest
It'll be interesting to see how he does against Maryland's guards.I may change my mind.

No one on our team defended the MD guards - so he would not be alone. We need help from our old buddy Nnanna to help with that.
 
#236      
I'm curious why so many believe that by starting TJL earlier in the season he would have put up the same numbers as he did last night. Maybe he needed the time to get himself acclimated to the speed of the game? That if he played 20+ minutes on day 1 he would maybe have played a lot worse, lost confidence, and then NOT put up the numbers he put up last night. I don't dissect individual performance enough to have firm conclusions on this stuff. But maybe, despite the fact that Groce sucks and he doesn't know X's and O's and can't develop and should be fired, etc, etc, that just maybe Groce did a good thing in unleashing him at this point in the season?

I'm probably wrong.

+1
 
#237      
His quickness seemed pretty damn great to me yesterday.

Quickness with the ball (which is EXCELLENT for TJL) is different than quickness on defense.

Generally I agree with you that his D is not horrible (not worse then everyone else on the team) but there is room for growth.

The problem will be that if Melo eats him up people will pile on more. And THAT is not fair. Melo will have size, speed, and experience on him. If he can do an even passable job of D'ing him up its a great sign.
 
#238      

Tevo

Wilmette, IL
The progression of TJL is going to decide how far this team goes. Obviously, every Illini fan could tell that this kid has the IQ to be a high level player and needed more mins. The difference between him and TA/JT is the first pass to me. His first pass moves the defense where as before we were passing without a purpose. No one was off balance or being worked. TJL set up shooters tonight, but his play also led to better passes from his recipients. I like combo guards but trying to make them the pg is getting old and is proven time and time again to be unsuccessful.

I may be wrong, but I believe in the half-court sets his first pass is pretty scripted. It frustrates me to watch the PG at the top dribbling while all four other guys stand in their spots, apparently waiting for some signal, decision or moment to start moving. Then we actually play. I do think on the move, however, TJL has very good instincts about where to get the ball and when. And when the defense begins to lose it's shape, he seems to know where to go to open things up, or where to pass to attack the holes.
 
#239      
This was awesome to watch. Abrams-Jalen-Kipper-Hill-Black is the lineup I'd like to see. If Kipper is that scrappy all the time, I'd love to see he and Leron down low taking offensive boards from bigs.

I don't think we will see that lineup. Maybe for a short spurt. If those five were on the court, Hill would still be at the three, though.

Right now, Morgan has to be in the lineup. He is playing some very good basketball.

I am a big Kipper fan. If some remember, I wrote glowingly about him after I saw him in the two early preseason scrimmages. However, he is likely to be a bit up and down going forward this season. He has a bright future, though.
 
#240      
That's not a very fair comparison. It's tough to find players that quick.

Sure, but TJL is average B10 guard quick, which was my point. He's not a + athlete, just average amongst B10 athletes. We are comparing him with the subpar athletes at point we've been running, so he looks excellent, and he is better than those guards, but he's not even close to the most athletic guy around, his quickness is just good enough to be competitive at the position.
 
#241      

mattcoldagelli

The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Ha, WHY are doing this

"They are more of a white-collar team traditionally and at Illinois we're about toughness and together," Morgan said. "Not that they're not but we kind of pride ourselves on defense and that's something we've been working to get better at."

Kinda weird to be taking shots at Michigan's style of play when they've been feeding us our lunch for years now. And man, do I hope we are not priding ourselves on our defense, because, uh, there are going to be a lot of ashamed people walking around Ubben.
 
#242      
Sure, but TJL is average B10 guard quick, which was my point. He's not a + athlete, just average amongst B10 athletes. We are comparing him with the subpar athletes at point we've been running, so he looks excellent, and he is better than those guards, but he's not even close to the most athletic guy around, his quickness is just good enough to be competitive at the position.

Lateral quickness and start stop quickness he is in the upper quartile. That enables him to stay in front of an offensive player better than a few of our..ahem...slower guys. It also enables him offensively to penetrate and create space which Mr. Tate just does not do well. What Tate does well is take care of the rock, find the open man and keep it moving. He just does not create as many easy looks as Tejon nor can he knock it down as well when left open.

Trimble could give him fits this weekend however.
 
#243      
Ha, WHY are doing this



Kinda weird to be taking shots at Michigan's style of play when they've been feeding us our lunch for years now. And man, do I hope we are not priding ourselves on our defense, because, uh, there are going to be a lot of ashamed people walking around Ubben.

Ugh. Welp, the return game in Ann Arbor is off the potential wins list.
 
#246      
Agree - sometimes I feel like we're watching a different player.

TJL is doing just fine on D, he's rotating over, working to get over the top of screens and anticipating (the tips). We, as a team, do not get many steals. We're decent at digging for the ball and being the first on the ground for lose balls, but straight out anticipation steals - few. TA has some, TJL is improving.

He's not completely there yet on D, but hey, I'll that the minor difference now for the experience to get there and the massive improvement in running the O when he's in there.

TJL will be an absolute ballhawk in a couple years. There were a couple of lapses but for a freshman he played some pretty sticky defense on Walton.
 
#247      

jmilt7

Waukegan
I'm sure they're going to be super endured up because Mav called them white collar.

Saw an article (don't have the link handy) that said Michigan players are using Mav's comment as motivation not just for the return match but for the rest of the season. Way to go Mav.
 
#248      
Saw an article (don't have the link handy) that said Michigan players are using Mav's comment as motivation not just for the return match but for the rest of the season. Way to go Mav.

Really overblowing that, I think losing by 16 is as much motivation as they'll need, it is whatever
 
#249      
Saw an article (don't have the link handy) that said Michigan players are using Mav's comment as motivation not just for the return match but for the rest of the season. Way to go Mav.

If you need the mildly offensive comments of an opposing player to motivate you I don't need you on my team,