I did not catch that moment, but my favorite Kipper play yesterday was actually just him shuffling on defense. There was 20 seconds in a row on one possession in the second half where he stayed in front of one man dribbling, switched onto another and stayed in front of him, and then switched onto another and stayed in front of him. It was the best defensive footwork I have seen from anyone on our team all year long. Kipper already had impressed me, but he earned any PT he gets moving forward with that kind of effort. It was incredible.
Illinois 85, Michigan 69 POSTGAME
I did not catch that moment, but my favorite Kipper play yesterday was actually just him shuffling on defense. There was 20 seconds in a row on one possession in the second half where he stayed in front of one man dribbling, switched onto another and stayed in front of him, and then switched onto another and stayed in front of him. It was the best defensive footwork I have seen from anyone on our team all year long. Kipper already had impressed me, but he earned any PT he gets moving forward with that kind of effort. It was incredible.
The progression of TJL is going to decide how far this team goes. Obviously, every Illini fan could tell that this kid has the IQ to be a high level player and needed more mins. The difference between him and TA/JT is the first pass to me. His first pass moves the defense where as before we were passing without a purpose. No one was off balance or being worked. TJL set up shooters tonight, but his play also led to better passes from his recipients. I like combo guards but trying to make them the pg is getting old and is proven time and time again to be unsuccessful.
I don't agree with firing Beilein at all, at least not this year. And I don't think they will.
I will just point out that Beilein has been much, much better than Groce by any objective measure, and yet the heat is still on him. Michigan is not a better program or a better job than Illinois. But if Michigan has higher expectations and dedicates higher resources and attention, Michigan is going to have better results.
It has nothing to do with numbers the fact is that playing TJL earlier wouldve allowed him to acclimate sooner but also would have this team further along in breaking the horrible habits the players have picked up over the last 6 years of inferior PG play.
There is no realistic a way to argue that somehow that TJL would benefit being matched up in practice against sub par pg's as opposed to actually facing good ones in the games .
I honestly believe that in another program the coach wouldve gave TJL the keys from day one and wouldve had both TA and JT on board in that understanding as seniors . The faster we get TJL up to speed the better our chances of making the tournament . TA and JT play at PG was never adequate enough to be given major minutes at that spot the last few years has proven that.
I remember when Dee,Deron,and Augustine first arrived on the scene . They all started even though there were older players with experience in front of them . Sean Harrington and Jerrance Howard were team captains along with Brian Cook and the two guards played behind Dee and Deron .
These guys understood fairly quickly that the goal should be to get whatever lineup out there that will help us get wins and get to the tournament but currently the attitude around the program seems to be "Its my turn" and if you are a freshmen you cant get minutes even though some of the best teams We have played have had freshmen in key roles . Its time to break the cycle of the last few years and get back to doing whatever it takes to win
GallopingGhost
- Denver, CO
I don't think TJL can bring the experience and shooting rhat Abrams has. He might be in a slump but he should continue to be our starting PG
For sure. I watched Simpson play a few games as a HS senior and I still think he'll be a good player as an upperclassman, but I won't be surprised if TJL ends up having a better four years. All of the PGs we were going hard after last year look like they're going to be terrific college players: TJL, Charlie Moore, Bryce Aiken...Simpson has shown the least so far.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Definitely. 10 mpg sounds about right. AJ's no longer pressing; game is slowing down for him. Bodes well. And, yeah, I'll think he'll get his J (in games) sorted. It's coming.
Yup, and that will sink in soon enough. Not only did we shoot really well, but we were at home. I'm not betting we'll have better games, but for now I'll take one and be happy.
We played well last night. I mean really well. The effort on 50-50 balls was the best I'd seen this year. The defense was noticeably better. The offense had more openings and better movement. The little things that win you games were much better. I'm not expecting hot shooting like that, but I'll take that effort any day.
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
We shot well last night, but we started the game with interior scoring, especially by Mav, which eventually opened up the outside shots.
I'm not expecting perfection. I don't think others are either. Safe and steady, full of leadership, tough as nails, 4th, 5th, and even 6th year seniors don't bat 1.000 either. Neither do eventual lottery pick PGs....you can go look at the threads of 2005 and people said DWill wouldn't get drafted at all because he was turnover prone.....not 2002 version, 04-05 version
I will leave open the possibility that TJL not playing more may have been the result of anything....as you said, we aren't at practice. Even with all the media coverage we are thirsty for, some things may stay within the walls of Ubben. He was still recovering from his injury and couldn't handle the minutes. He had trouble adjusting to the academic rigors. Other minor discipline, missing study hall, he was texting someone else's girlfriend, he TP'd someone's house, he insulted Mrs. Groce by saying her brownies sucked, he talked crap after beating Groce at mini golf, he cheated at the team bowling excursion.....I'm hoping there are some reasons why. If there are legit reasons, I'm fine even not knowing what those are. I will trust Groce if that info is best left in house.
But most of the fan base could see he offered a different and needed skills package the first time he stepped on the floor that could help win games.
The dissonance that I personally have is I would love to see Groce here and successful for a long time. If none of the legit or absurd reasons I listed above were the reasons TJL didn't play more earlier in the season and consistently....I have concerns if he is the right person for the job....which sucks to say because he is the type of person you want coaching your own kids. I'd have run through a wall for him myself after his speech after the Miami loss.
There are a lot of reason's Groce could have held off playing TJL earlier. Knowledge or lack thereof of offensive and defensive schemes, consistency in practice, Tracy's generally exceptional play in non-conference, leadership roles on team, mental readiness, matchups to opposing starters and bench players, comfort level on the road versus at home, chemistry, etc.
It is Groce's job that is on the line and he knows his players better than anyone on this board, so I think you could assume that he has considered the issues and used his best judgment. Izzo may be playing freshmen early this year, but Izzo is secure in his job. If we were 8-8 (2-2) right now because Groce played freshman a lot of minutes early in the season, how much more comfortable would the fan base be with Groce?
It is Groce's job that is on the line and he knows his players better than anyone on this board, so I think you could assume that he has considered the issues and used his best judgment. Izzo may be playing freshmen early this year, but Izzo is secure in his job. If we were 8-8 (2-2) right now because Groce played freshman a lot of minutes early in the season, how much more comfortable would the fan base be with Groce?
Interesting that some familiar, high vis names being bantered around there as they are here as a potential replacement for coach.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Someone in that thread suggests "backing up the money truck" to get Tom Crean (!!), so that might not be the most attentive cross-section of basketball fans.
It's Michigan. Tom Crean is the only basketball coach they can name because he's the only one who is married into the Harbaugh family.
Deleted member 29907
D
Guest
Agree on the play - Kipper just man handled the player trying to box him out to get the ball.
Not sure how to solve Melo - no one on our team stopped him last time. The theme may be to assume he will get his - but don't let guy#2 get theirs.
The one hand floater was a thing of beauty and difficult to do. But more importantly was the movement without the ball to help TA out of a jam. Clearly he's learned the tear drop to accommodate his size - blow by your defender but get it up before you get to the rim protector.
How tall is Kipper? Looks to be the same size as MH
SalukiIllini
- Evansville, IN
I've always wondered if Groce has struggled because he never had "his type PG. TJL looks to be in that mold and maybe the team really comes together the next two months. He could be the glue that's needed.
Yes I'm aware that's a lot to put on a freshman. But for shooters to be open you need a quick, silky guard to get them the rock.
Yes I'm aware that's a lot to put on a freshman. But for shooters to be open you need a quick, silky guard to get them the rock.
Dont be so quick to dismiss the abilities of a freshman PG. Look at what Charlie Moore and Marcus Lovett have done. Neither of those guys were 5 star pg's playing for a blue blood, yet they are still playing at a high clip.
Not saying Tejon is gonna start averaging 15 pts a game, but its possible for a frosh pg to come in and be sucessful. I dont expect TJL to be a goto guy for at least a couple of years, but he does bring a different motor to this team and one we haven't had at the PG position in at least 6+ years. Even if his best role right now is a change of pace guy, he still is going to make plays.
Firing Beilein would be unbelievably stupid.
Water is wet
The heat is not on Beilein. Until yesterday, posters in the coaching carousel thread were bringing up Beilein as an example of a very successful coach. I mentioned that Beilein has had a couple of rough years lately and his star is not as shiny as it used to be. The discussion on Beilein being on the hot seat is as absurd as the discussion on him being an example of a consistently successful coach. Reality is in the middle.
There is zero proof that Michigan has higher expectations than Illinois as evident of having any plans or even thinking of getting rid of Beilein. So it is hard to base that hypothesis on discussion by some absurd fans who are clearly overreacting to a disappointing loss yesterday.
This is spot on. It wasn't just the 8 assists, there were several "hockey assists" where the next pass created an easy shot. There is no way we shoot 64% on a regular basis, but the shots we took when TJL was playing were completely different.
The defensive spacing was much different when you play 5 on 5 vs. 4 on 5. 64% FG% was the best since 1/6/2011 when we hit 70.5% (school record) against NW in C/U.