Front court (Mav, Finke, Black, Kipper) shot 72% from field, including 3/4 from 3pt range.
Illinois 85, Michigan 69 POSTGAME
Fave Kipper play last night was his crossing to the other side of the lane to rebound one of our missed FTs. At least that's what I think I saw. Just hunted it down. Can't remember the last time I saw one of the good guys do that.
With TJL it seems to me quickness is the big thing. So much quicker into the lane and to the basket than JT, and TA for that matter. Noted several times last night that the other guys seem more alert for and ready to receive his passes. Not saying he's at 78 rpm to JT's/TA's 33 rpm pace; more like 45 rpm to 33, but even that makes a difference. Our offensive pace was really good last night. Digging TJL's floaters too; he may not have the size and hops to be a super strong finisher at the hoop but that shot will keep the defenders coming to him on penetration and leaving guys open for his passes.
Not sure I'd assume we've seen the last of JT; think Groce will work him in at times. In fact he may see some decent tick against MD, to guard Melo, if TJL gets burned too much or in foul trouble.
Mav had a superb night. Loved the opening play when he turned and scored over his right shoulder using his LEFT. That set him up for the rest of the night inside; Wagner bit on several of his quick fake spins after that. Mav has a good left; hope he keeps using it to keep 'em honest.
With TJL it seems to me quickness is the big thing. So much quicker into the lane and to the basket than JT, and TA for that matter. Noted several times last night that the other guys seem more alert for and ready to receive his passes. Not saying he's at 78 rpm to JT's/TA's 33 rpm pace; more like 45 rpm to 33, but even that makes a difference. Our offensive pace was really good last night. Digging TJL's floaters too; he may not have the size and hops to be a super strong finisher at the hoop but that shot will keep the defenders coming to him on penetration and leaving guys open for his passes.
Not sure I'd assume we've seen the last of JT; think Groce will work him in at times. In fact he may see some decent tick against MD, to guard Melo, if TJL gets burned too much or in foul trouble.
Mav had a superb night. Loved the opening play when he turned and scored over his right shoulder using his LEFT. That set him up for the rest of the night inside; Wagner bit on several of his quick fake spins after that. Mav has a good left; hope he keeps using it to keep 'em honest.
This game just goes to show if you can potentially do one thing well (offense/defense), double down on it try to win games that way even if it makes you even worse at the other thing.
Playing Tate all year at the expense of Lucas in the name of "defense" was just inexcusable. We're a garbage defense team, with the potential to be a good offensive team with a real point guard on the floor. Double down on the offense by putting Lucas at the point, Mav in at center, punt on defense, and you might be able to outscore a team you shouldn't beat.
Michigan is not... good. They came out and beat them like the should, which was very nice to see. Hopefully Groce doesn't screw around and think "I'll need an experienced (but garbage) defender on Trimble" while playing Tate and Abrams 25 minutes.
Playing Tate all year at the expense of Lucas in the name of "defense" was just inexcusable. We're a garbage defense team, with the potential to be a good offensive team with a real point guard on the floor. Double down on the offense by putting Lucas at the point, Mav in at center, punt on defense, and you might be able to outscore a team you shouldn't beat.
Michigan is not... good. They came out and beat them like the should, which was very nice to see. Hopefully Groce doesn't screw around and think "I'll need an experienced (but garbage) defender on Trimble" while playing Tate and Abrams 25 minutes.
I expected Mav to get the start and I expected TJL to get substantially more minutes. I did not expect Thorne and Tate to go all the way to zero minutes.
But Kipper was the real revelation to me. I never expected to see that sort of offense, or even that many minutes, from him.
But Kipper was the real revelation to me. I never expected to see that sort of offense, or even that many minutes, from him.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
"Rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated." - John Groce after the Michigan game
I'm a little late to this party, but that was fun! Even though scUM isn't their usual self this year, it's still a Belein team and we decimated them while looking good doing it. I haven't seen us look that good for an entire game against a B1G opponent since we had Dee & Deron. That one play where TJL's momentum was going to take him out of bounds behind their basket but had the vision and insticts to whip it back to an open guy at the 3-point line was highlight reel stuff that I don't think I've seen one of our PGs do since... HRF (not saying he's at that level). Kipper also brought a whole new dimension. The Frosh can play!
I'm a little late to this party, but that was fun! Even though scUM isn't their usual self this year, it's still a Belein team and we decimated them while looking good doing it. I haven't seen us look that good for an entire game against a B1G opponent since we had Dee & Deron. That one play where TJL's momentum was going to take him out of bounds behind their basket but had the vision and insticts to whip it back to an open guy at the 3-point line was highlight reel stuff that I don't think I've seen one of our PGs do since... HRF (not saying he's at that level). Kipper also brought a whole new dimension. The Frosh can play!
The Dave
- CA
It seemed to me that when TJL had tight pressure put on him beyond the arc he seemed to have trouble with the dribble. To me that's one of those things that he'll only get better at with more playing time. Experience, confidence and strength help with that.
TJL is not "the answer" (at least not right now) but he definitely has the most upside at PG for us. Groce should play him as much as possible to get him that experience and comfort. I LOVED the drive and kick-out he kept on doing. That's something the Illini haven't done effectively in over a decade.
It feels like he has the instincts at PG, but Michigan's horrible defense might have contributed to that. The real proof will be against MD and Trimble.
TJL is not "the answer" (at least not right now) but he definitely has the most upside at PG for us. Groce should play him as much as possible to get him that experience and comfort. I LOVED the drive and kick-out he kept on doing. That's something the Illini haven't done effectively in over a decade.
It feels like he has the instincts at PG, but Michigan's horrible defense might have contributed to that. The real proof will be against MD and Trimble.
Illinifanatic4ever
- Orange & Blue Blood in my Veins
TJL has a great pace that he plays at. Very smooth will only get better with experience!!!
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Time to take the training wheels off, for sure. Past due, actually. Our flow is so much better with Lucas running the show, even Groce can see it. Think we'll see Lucas and Abrams splitting the PG minutes from here on.
Are there going to be mistakes? Of course (e.g. behind the back bounce pass turnover). But those should go down with playing time. The good far outweighs the bad.
Expecting TJL to shine against Trimble is a big ask.
Great game and fun to watch. Obviously the play of Kipper and Lucas was a big part of that, but I did call for Groce to tighten up the rotation in the pre-game thread, and I think that was a key change also. It's just one game, but there seemed to be a better flow to the offensive and even defense to some extent. Unfortunately, I worry that shortening the rotation was only because of Tate being under the weather and DJW being unavailable. I hope that's not the case.
frozenrope9190
- Aurora, IL
I'm curious why so many believe that by starting TJL earlier in the season he would have put up the same numbers as he did last night. Maybe he needed the time to get himself acclimated to the speed of the game? That if he played 20+ minutes on day 1 he would maybe have played a lot worse, lost confidence, and then NOT put up the numbers he put up last night. I don't dissect individual performance enough to have firm conclusions on this stuff. But maybe, despite the fact that Groce sucks and he doesn't know X's and O's and can't develop and should be fired, etc, etc, that just maybe Groce did a good thing in unleashing him at this point in the season?
I'm probably wrong.
I'm probably wrong.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
The best ending for Tracy's career would be getting back to the tournament. I think he'd probably second that. That means more TJL.
Agree, the argument never need to be against all of our work-hard guys like Tate, Thorne and the rest of the guys, and instead are about the team and its success. knocking our guys down does not bring us up. Jaylon will always be an Illini kid, no matter if he makes one hundred assists or one the rest of the way.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
TA is most efficient as a 20-25 mpg pg. AJ has been looking good, and he needs more minutes even though the 10 last night was about right. He had a great Edwardsvilke assist 5-6 games ago then didn't play the next. If we're not going big with MH at the 2, Kip at the 3, and LB at the 4, I'd like AJ to get the sg minutes behind JCL.
Soxfreak64
- Bloomington
For all the good offense in this game, the best play didn't even result in a bucket. Midway through 2nd half, Lucas whipped a one handed no-look half court pass to Finke under the bucket. Finke goes up without a dribble and it's 2 pts.
When's the last time any of us have seen that in a game?
When's the last time any of us have seen that in a game?
Paul had 22 in his first game if memory serves.
Deleted member 10676
D
Guest
I've pretty much ignored our 'coaching carousel', but I've seen the others from past seasons, and this shows fans are pretty much universal. The grass is not always greener.
http://michigan.247sports.com/Board/59424/Contents/Fire-Beilein-50490040#
http://michigan.247sports.com/Board/59424/Contents/Fire-Beilein-50490040#
Great Point, and Paul turned into a total bust. Hope we don't land another Brandon Paul, but until than I'll take another 6-4 athletic guard who can shoot and win games at the buzzer.
This play took me completely by surprise! I had to ask myself what team was I really watching here.
We can't know this for sure one way or another, we don't watch practice after all. But it seems like a very reasonable conclusion.
Lucas plays a bit out of control and doesn't play much defense, but his passing ability and energy gives us a spark. I think it's totally logical to think that two months ago the former two things were outweighing the latter two, and his acclimation to the college game as a true freshman has been an ongoing process.
There are bad TeJon Lucas games coming. I promise you that. Wild true freshman point guards do not bat 1.000. But if this is the moment he was ready to take on that responsibility, that's to Groce's great credit.
When Kipper was on a roll yesterday it seemed like we had two Malcolm's on the floor. Not going to bad mouth any Illini players, but I would still prefer DJW getting minutes. I don't think we can go with two of our PGs on the floor, we get killed on defense.
Not sure if you guys caught when Wagner decided to avoid Kipper's defense and dribbled on the other side of the bucket against Mav. Although Kipper is smaller he had him beat on quickness and had Wagner sized up for a block.
Not sure if you guys caught when Wagner decided to avoid Kipper's defense and dribbled on the other side of the bucket against Mav. Although Kipper is smaller he had him beat on quickness and had Wagner sized up for a block.
Wow! How about that? I like the one comment : "idk why we can't recruit like Illinois"