His free throwing did have a bit Chuck Barkley golf swing ugliness to it form wise. Just needs to relax and shoot the ball. Mechanics looked a bit hurrible.
Illinois 87, Quincy 52 (Exhibition) Postgame
Watching and implementing Durant's FT form might be an asset to Dain.
It surprises me that a poor FT shooter like Dain or Kofi doesn't try the Rick Barry style of FT shooting. For a fringe guy who is looking to make the NBA or at least get to a higher level of professional ball, it seems like a no brainer to adopt a method that can add 20% to your accuracy
How many current NBA players do the underhand style?
I'd like to see the whole team switch to the Barry style free throws. Make it an ILL trademark. We do what is best for the team. We are here to win.
The Barry style is far more effective than traditional shooting form and easy to learn/master. The only drawback seems to be that people are afraid of looking silly. If the entire team does it, the stigma goes away. What else can you do that is so easy and would add 4pts/game to the score? (College teams shoot ~20 free throws per game, and this raises the shooting percentage by ~20%.)
Honest question - Is there a body of evidence besides Barry that shows underhand free throws are more effective? Or was one guy really successful with it so we just assume it would work for everyone?
It seems like the more prudent advice would be to tell people to shoot like Steph Curry, the NBA's all time leader in FT%.
There were a few others who used the style over the years and were successful. I can't name them off the top of my head.
The physics is pretty clear:
The underhand arc leaves a much larger margin for error than most peoples standard shot. 90% (straight down) is the theoretical optimal for margin of error on hoop entry. The problem is that higher arcs require more precise tosses. A 60% arc seems to be about the right trade off for most people. You do not want to be below 45% arc. Achieving a 60% arc is really easy granny style. Achieving this arc when shooting normally may be a significant change to their standard shooting motion.
Another advantage is that the Barry form is much easier to learn and replicate than a standard shot. Stand with your feet slightly wider than your shoulders, hold the ball in your hands with your arms straight. Raise your arms, keeping them straight. Done. [Watch a video to see proper hand positioning.] The main variable is learning at what rate to raise your arms. The ball naturally leaves your hands at a certain point. Your wrists naturally flip up giving a bit of backspin (good). People with shorter arms (e.g. people under 5'8"), may need to adjust the natural release point, or even use a bit of leg. Even then, the motions are still more controlled than the standard shooting methods because all of the motion is in one direction (up).
For those still in doubt, try it. I picked it up very quickly, and I can't shoot for !!!!. The key was it being a simple repeatable motion.
Maybe a couple of the walk-ons can spend an hour learning it and demo it to the rest of the team. It works.
[Edit: Evidently Barry did use his legs.]
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Interesting. Appreciate the detailed explanation! Not doubting you, Grue, but I'm just skeptical I guess, that after over 100 years of playing the game, this hasn't caught on. I mean there are plenty of unorthodox pitching techniques in baseball or swings in golf that go against the status quo but people still use them. Not sure why basketball players are more concerned about defying common convention.
But hey, if Dain can do it and hit 70% or even 60, then I'd love to see it. There is probably an alternate universe where 50 years from now all basketball players use the granny shot because Dain Dainja popularized it after carrying Illinois to its first NCAA championship.
Shaq wouldn't do it because he thought it would make him look like a sissy, and I imagine that's why others don't do it. As Grue said, the physics on it is pretty clear. Wilt tried it for a while and improved his % to over 60%, but reverted back to his old style for the same reason Shaq wouldn't do it.
Funny you mention Wilt. I just went down a brief rabbit hole researching the history of underhand free throws and found this video about Wilt's free throw struggles. Pretty interesting in you have a few minutes.
Wilt's free throw struggles
MDchicago
- Lake Norman NC
Northwestern 69 Quincy 49
>> "Despite the shifts in personnel, NU never truly put the game out of reach until late in the second half. Chalk it up to first game jitters or preseason rust, but a poor shooting display and questionable shot selection offers some cause for concern ahead of the season opener against Chicago State next Monday." <<
>> "Despite the shifts in personnel, NU never truly put the game out of reach until late in the second half. Chalk it up to first game jitters or preseason rust, but a poor shooting display and questionable shot selection offers some cause for concern ahead of the season opener against Chicago State next Monday." <<
Shaq said he would rather shoot 0% FTs than embarrass himself like that.
DeAndre Jordan has said something similar.
Wilt shot ~50% free throws for his career. On the night he put up 100 pts, he was 28/32 (87.5%) from the line -- shooting them Barry style.
I was always a proponent of shooting the free throw with your off hand if you can't do it with your strong hand. At that point the proper technique is built from the ground up with no bad habits to break.
But whatever, make free throws.
But whatever, make free throws.
I saw this a while back. Thanks for putting it up. I think the best quote(s)in the whole thing is this:
Rick Barry: “I appreciate that he once tried to shoot underhand but his technique sucked….
Rick Barry: “How do you not try ANYTHING to get better?”
That last one says it all doesn’t it? I don’t get the Wilts and Shaqs of the world that
that are too cool for school. They feel like they don’t wanna look foolish….Right. Like bricks and air balls don’t? Lol.
I don’t get it at all. If I was that epically bad as Shaq or Wilt shooting freebies. …I would try anything. AND I just don’t get worrying about what other people think to that extent. I would stand on my head and shoot if ‘em if it worked that well.
(Especially if it was backed by science.)
I really don’t get the stigma against a technique that this guy made into near perfection. It’s weird how it hasn’t caught on more really. Besides Rick wasn’t exactly Grandma Moses out there…this was a guy that helped revolutionize the traditional jumpshot. That probably looked dumb
to someone too at one time too, right?
For you podcast listeners out there Malcolm Gladwell had an interesting episode about all of this:
The Big Man Can’t Shoot | Revisionist History
Wilt Chamberlain’s brilliant career was marred by one, deeply inexplicable decision. Why do smart people do dumb things?
www.pushkin.fm
This actually hits on a couple of the reasons why I get skeptical when I hear that underhand free throws are better.
I don't deny the science or the fact that some individuals don't do it because they think it looks dumb. But I'm inclined to think that over time the best, most effective technique will win out. Like you said, there's nothing inherently "cool" about a traditional jump shot, thats just what works. I think chances are Barry was so talented that he would've been a great shooter regardless of technique.
And if you just objectively look at the top 50 FT shooters of all time, you'd see that 49/50, including the top 6, all shoot a traditional looking shot, so that's clearly a proven and repeatable technique.
Now, to play devils advocate to myself, it's also possible that the most successful technique is just the one that is taught the most from a young age. If there were more coaches teaching the underhand method in grade school, maybe we'd see more of it in college and the pros?
Anyway, I don't mean to sound like I have some kind of vendetta against the underhand shot. I think players should do what works for them. I had a coach in Jr. High who taught us to take one big step forward with our right foot, one big step back with our left foot, lean forward with our right elbow over our right toes and shotput the ball up there because that was his technique he used in college and once made like 19/19 in a game. It worked for some of us but I think most of us reverted back to the traditional set up.
I don’t disagree with any of that, really. If a person shot 85-90 percent with the most prevalent overhand style…of course. Why change? I never shot that way, myself.
I shot over 80-some percent…I also was not an NBA Hall of Famer lol. So what do I know?
But if you’re Wilt/Shaq and absolutely nothing has worked…I mean why not try it?…especially considering Wilt at least, seemingly had more success with it that any other method.
I’m mad Shaq didn’t try granny style just for the entertainment value of a man that large shooting granny style.
If true, I find this fact regarding Shaq to be absolutely confounding. For someone as big, athletic, and dominant as he was, he could definitely show anyone who the sissy on the court really was the next time down the floor if he actually caught flack for the granny style free throw.
3 point girl
- texas
The free throw coach for the Dallas mavericks worked with Shaq on the 1994 USA world championships team in Toronto. He wanted Shaq to shoot free throws like his old pupil Anthony Mason did one handed. That would take his muscle bound shoulders out of the equation. He actually did quite well at it, but refused to do it out of vanity.