Illinois 88, Southern 60 Postgame

#126      
See all other stats. He's a game manager PG, not a flashy score-first turnover machine that can't guard anyone other than another PG because he's 6'1"

Defenses have not sagged off of him, because when they do he gets inside for an easy two. This is not Jalen Tate.
The eye test says Nico runs the offense so much better and has several high IQ plays. Ty creates mismatches, but outside of offensive rebounds, he's not as good as Nico on offense.

Of course Ty is light years ahead of him defensively. He's tenacious, athletic, and provides a very unique look for our team. However, he is not the better PG. By your reasoning, Darwin Barney is one of the best second basemen during his time.
 
#127      
I'm doubting winning at Rutgers will be a Quad 1 at this point. Based on their play, they've really seemed to have taken a significant hit this past offseason. The RAC is a tough place to play, but I think that's a doable road win we're going to need as the season plays out. As well, all the noncon B10 losses are starting to pile up, so quality win opportunities within the B10 this year will likely be less available than expected. So this stretch of 5 games may loom larger than we were originally thinking come selection time:

@Rutgers
N-FAU
@Tenn
H-Colgate
N-Mizzou

Before the season started, going 2-3 in this tough stretch was probably acceptable (even if not by fan standards). Now, I think we need to go at least 3-2 in this stretch. Based on the quality of the B10, this doesn't have the looks of a 20 wins and we're in season. Need to ensure we're nowhere near the bubble this year, and getting an extra noncon win or 2 will prove large later.
Maybe about Rutgers, but the NET rankings are very forgiving for Quad 1 results on the road - RU would only have to be in the top 75. For reference, last year Rutgers MISSED the NCAA Tournament, and they were still #40 in the NET rankings and therefore a Quad 1 win/loss in Piscataway.

Come to think of it, I am not actually sure when the first NET rankings come out. It will be interesting to see where Big Ten teams fall.
 
#128      
Great info...thanks. I'm not asking for you to go back and do this. But if you do again in the future, I'd be interested in unforced errors versus actual steals.
Do they keep track of that? I'm genuinely ignorant of this. I just used the box score for ESPN's game summary and then filled in everyone's class using our roster, haha. That would be interesting, though.
 
#129      
The eye test says Nico runs the offense so much better and has several high IQ plays. Ty creates mismatches, but outside of offensive rebounds, he's not as good as Nico on offense.

Of course Ty is light years ahead of him defensively. He's tenacious, athletic, and provides a very unique look for our team. However, he is not the better PG. By your reasoning, Darwin Barney is one of the best second basemen during his time.
Not to be pedantic here but defense is half of the game for a basketball player and much, much less than half of the game for position players in baseball. And regardless, Darwin Barney was pretty much the archetypical average middle infielder, which is kind of what people are clamoring for here for some reason. He's the T. Jon Lucas, Esq. of baseball.

Rodgers is more like Jose Hernandez, if you want to go way back. He looked a lot more like a guy who belonged on a corner but could play passably enough up the middle and gave you some stuff that the Darwin Barneys of the world could not in the bargain.
 
#130      
The eye test says Nico runs the offense so much better and has several high IQ plays. Ty creates mismatches, but outside of offensive rebounds, he's not as good as Nico on offense.

Of course Ty is light years ahead of him defensively. He's tenacious, athletic, and provides a very unique look for our team. However, he is not the better PG. By your reasoning, Darwin Barney is one of the best second basemen during his time.

Darwin Barney? Sorry, you completely lost me. Where did I state Ty was one of the best PG of all time? Geesh...

As far as the eye test goes, you might want to grab a pair of glasses then. Moretti isn't on the floor against P5 competition for a reason. He had a good 5 minute stretch against Southern U and now he's better than the statistically 2nd or 3rd best PG in the B1G? Nah.
 
#132      
Maybe about Rutgers, but the NET rankings are very forgiving for Quad 1 results on the road - RU would only have to be in the top 75. For reference, last year Rutgers MISSED the NCAA Tournament, and they were still #40 in the NET rankings and therefore a Quad 1 win/loss in Piscataway.

Come to think of it, I am not actually sure when the first NET rankings come out. It will be interesting to see where Big Ten teams fall.
We need 2 Noncon Q1s to feel good I think. Our chances are neutral Mizzou, FAU, Tenn. We are probably favored for Mizzou and FAU. Plus we just need wins as a whole to boost the B1G quality. I counted 12 Q1 games for us in conference play per Kenpom rating. That number usually continues to drop once conference play starts and losses are racked up more.
 
#135      
Tell me you don't understand basketball without telling me you don't understand basketball.
Praising Ty as the “2nd or 3” best pg in the Big Ten because he doesn’t turn the basketball over while calling someone out for pointing out he creates nothing on offense is certainly A take….
 
#136      
While Ty has played point gaurd before he is more of a ball security type at that position. Not going to create much for others. We need someone in that position that can facilitate to others and knock down shots if left open. Moretti is the closest thing we have to that on this team. His ability to be patient and not be sped up out of control put him a little ahead of DGL and Ty imo. I think once he gets more comfortable with being on the floor during meaningful minutes he'll start taking more shots outside when they present themselves.
Ty did not play point guard in high school. I personally sat and watched 50% of his game his senior year. He is doing currently what he did as a senior. Bringing or help bringing the ball up to half court offense.
He is ultimately effective down low taking it at people to the rim. Grabbing rebounds no one else on our team can get to! Once in half court he should be with 1 foot on the lane. He is an absolute beast at the hoop.
Watching Purdue and Gonzaga. Why the heck didn't we grab the other SIU grad transfer. All conference Defensive player of the year. My goodness, he has played like super glue on Gonzaga!
 
#137      
And yet its working just fine.
Is it? We have played one quality team, played them at home, and lost.

One bad part about Ty being PG is it gives Hawkins an excuse to hang around the top of the key. Then we have 2 non PGs handling the ball a lot. Heck, not guards at all.

I always felt good with Darwin Barney on the field. He did everything correctly.
 
#138      
Praising Ty as the “2nd or 3” best pg in the Big Ten because he doesn’t turn the basketball over while calling someone out for pointing out he creates nothing on offense is certainly A take….

Explain why I'm wrong.
 
#139      
Is it? We have played one quality team, played them at home, and lost.

One bad part about Ty being PG is it gives Hawkins an excuse to hang around the top of the key. Then we have 2 non PGs handling the ball a lot. Heck, not guards at all.

I always felt good with Darwin Barney on the field. He did everything correctly.
Replying to you but not picking on you specifically, because there are a good number of people on this board who are saying pretty similar things.

Darwin Barney was consistently one of the absolute worst hitters in Major League baseball to get regular playing time during the entire course of his career. Did he hit correctly?

That's the problem I have with this panic folks have whipped themselves into around not having a True Point Guard -- when you strip away everything else, it's about 99.99% vibes and no substance. In recent threads we've had people say all sorts of stuff about Moretti and how he compares to Rodgers. He doesn't turn the ball over (though he had two TOs in 13 minutes just like Ty did last night). He hits free throws (said during the Valpo game at which point he was 2-4 on the night). That he's got a credible jumper (though he has attempted and made just as many threes as Rodgers on the season). That the ball doesn't stick when he's on the court (though there were a few possessions last night where he did the whole Bob Cousy/Andre Curbelo "I'm gonna dribble until something opens up" routine).

If you're like me, you watched a lot of basketball and learned about the game in an era when big men were not only supposed to have specific skills around the basket, but also that they were doing something wrong if they tried to play on the perimeter even if they had the skills to do so. The NBA locked out skilled European big men for the better part of a decade after the Eastern Bloc stopped restricting their movement. We heard all sorts of reasons for this -- I'm partial to 'they were too soft' which is objectively hilarious if you've ever taken the time to watch a basketball game played in Serbia or whatever -- but mostly, coaches had no idea what to do with them.

The game has changed and it's better for it. You can have big guys handle the ball or make plays or shoot jump shots and it's actually a good thing, and at least the people on the inside of the game recognize that as a thing that you want to take advantage of if you can.

But we're not even talking about a big man here. We're talking about Ty Rodgers, who is maybe 6'6" and in today's game there are plenty of 6'6" guards. Since he's Not A Point Guard because he's never played Point Guard, though, folks have jumped to all sorts of conclusions about what he can and can't do. Does he have experience running the point at the college level? No, but he's got just as much as Moretti or Gibbs-Lawhorn. Still, those guys Are Point Guards, maybe because they wouldn't have looked out of place playing the role 40 years ago, or maybe because, I don't know, reasons?

But there's zero substance behind that. It's just folks wanting the game to look differently than it does today, and frankly, folks having really forgotten what the game looked like back then. Just the worst, most vapid sports talk radio stuff imaginable, and you're gonna keep swinging it around until the facts match up with your narrative.

Anyway, you do you, I'm just gonna tune out, and maybe hope that the people who actually get to make decisions about this stuff aren't listening, either.
 
#140      
Go Crazy Wtf GIF
 
#141      
He's played PG his entire life.

This Ty can't play PG stuff is foolish. He's played PG all throughout high school, played PG last year (played it a ton toward the end of the year) and he's playing it now and taking care of the ball. There are currently 4 Illini players with more TO/game than Ty Rodgers and he is the PG and has the ball in his hands as much or more than anyone on the team when he is in the game. Our PG play has most certainly not been the issue. We need to find something else to complain about (3pt and FT shooting will suffice, no?).
Agreed. This is a tired, lazy narrative.
 
#146      
Moretti and DGL both need a lot of work on their bodies and game before either of them can be our primary PG. Which is why they are not. Moretti played last night because the opponent was Southern U and not Marquette. Are you more qualified to coach this team than the group of people who are? Didn't think so.
These kinds of comments crack me up. You’re on a forum where people offer their opinions. If that was the qualification for offering an opinion, there wouldn’t be much activity on here.

Also, find you someone who loves you as much as NarrowJ loves Ty @ PG. 😂😂
 
#150      

Loyalillini10

Urbana, IL
Judging a PG on how many assits he has in not cherry picking. It's literally the main purpose of his position.
This is literally your opinion and not fact. If that is the main criterium on how you judge a PG, there are a lot of amazing PGs that have had great careers that you likely did not think were PGs or good PGs. That is okay; it is your opinion (IMO not a good opinion).

When I think of criteria for a great PG I look for ability to initiate the offense, good BB IQ, great court vision, ball-handling skills, able to create for others, great defender, good FT shooter, good outside shooter. Ty checks a lot of those boxes. Therefore, IMO, he is a pretty good PG, at this point, and I think he will only get better.