Illinois 93, Michigan 85 Postgame

#326      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
IlliniKat91 said:
Coaches do literally use pads to run into bigs as they practice backing down at the basket. There are ways to mimic what happens in a game without hurting a player.

And frankly, if someone wants to play a sport professionally, using body type as an excuse isn't it. He'll never be 90% as stated above, but he can be a lot more consistent which is what we need if other teams are going to play hack-a-Kofi. Otherwise he becomes a liability and the key to another team winning in close games.
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I am not disagreeing. He can certainly get better, and I am not excusing him from trying. My point it that there are elements of physics in place that make it a more difficult shot for larger humans than smaller.

If people want to talk about middle school kids being more consistent, there are legitimate reasons why.
 
#328      

CubsIlliniFan

C
CubsIlliniFan
80'sIllini said:
Other than the late run for Michigan to make it close, an overall efficient game and excellent effort. I do wish we can extend our 8 point leads to 16-20 points. Seems like we rarely blow anyone out.Makes our wins look less impressive which could hurt our seeding and not good for my blood pressure.
Some takeaways:
1. Kofi totally outplayed Dickinson and even contested him at the 3 point line in the second half. Still needs to work on his FT's. It appears like he holds the ball too much in his large palm and not as much in the fingertips to get a softer touch. His development of the left-handed shot is very impressive.
2. Really good contributions from Hawk. When DMW was in the game, Michigan was posting him up every chance they got and they had to go away from that with Hawk in the game. He also needs to work on FT's. His shot overall is very flat- surprised the staff hasn't been correcting that all this time.
3. Belo is coming along. His D is very impressive and against a zone defense and to play up tempo offense- we need his ability to dribble drive to create decent shots.
4. Frazier is an all- time winner. I hope he makes a good living professionally when the time comes. Right now- so glad he is on our team.
5. Payne gives us nothing but bad fouls- when Verdonk is back, the few minutes we need one of them I hope it's him instead of Payne.
6. Couple of careless fouls by Grandison- shouldn't happen with such a veteran player.
7. Goode had a wide-open 3 and instead passed to another shooter less open than him with the shot clock winding down. He needs to be more assertive shooting when has a good shot. Otherwise, I liked his contributions. He was scored on once or twice but played good D- just was better O.
8. Too bad Plummer isn't forcing himself to go over screens and chase hard from behind but then if he was, Belo might not play as much and he provides a totally different look to our opponents. Plummer an incredible shooter. What a weapon!
9. If we can improve our FT's and decrease bad fouls,we can go very far.
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Great assessment of the situation. FT shooting is mental and I hope instead of a normal practice today, they just sit and shoot FTs. Lots of them. That is the biggest aspect in the post season. Gotta make FT;s. No ifs ands or buts. Penn State might be a good place for Goode to get going. He needs to take the open shot instead of passing it off. Hawk needs to work on his shot as, as you said, its flat. He also needs to be more assertive and get to the rim. He can be a guy who can get to the line so his FT shooting needs to be better. His energy is off the charts right now. Huge rebounds and key passing is making him a better player. That pass to Grandy was special. He is doing a better job standing straight up on D. Not making the silly foul like he was doing previously. Goode should have been playing more but that horse has been beat over the past months by several on here. I hope we can get Podz minutes over the next two games as the B1G tourney is brutal and tiring. We will need fresh legs.
 
#329      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
I
Emerson Bigguns said:
I am not disagreeing. He can certainly get better, and I am not excusing him from trying. My point it that there are elements of physics in place that make it a more difficult shot for larger humans than smaller.

If people want to talk about middle school kids being more consistent, there are legitimate reasons why.
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I’m not trying to be a Dickerson. That’s just my opinion…

I’ve heard the point I believe you are making…essentially the Chamberlain’s and Shaqs are TOO strong…it’s Too much motion in a standard FT shot for them…

I even believe there’s something to it being a bit harder…numbers indicate it is…let’s assume it is…

I think you have to admit it’s still more than do-able for BIGs to shoot freebies reasonably well.

I wouldn’t bet my life on these but
career-wise…
Patrick Ewing -74%
Akeem Olajuwon- too lazy to average it out but 61 % on the low end and 78% on the high…

If I went digging for Moses Malone…I’ll bet that one’s pretty high too.

Just saying’ it clearly can be done.
 
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#330      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
WyattEarp said:
I

I’m not trying to be a Dickerson. That’s just my opinion…

I’ve heard the point I believe you are making…essentially the Chamberlain’s and Shaqs are essentially TOO strong…it’s Too much motion in a standard FT shot for them…

I even believe there’s something to it being a bit harder…numbers indicate it is…let’s assume it is…you have to admit it is still more than do-able to for BIGs to shoot freebies reasonably well.

I wouldn’t bet my life on these but
career-wise…
Patrick Ewing -74%
Akeem Olajuwon- too lazy to average it out but 61 % on the low end and 78% on the high…

If I went digging for Moses Malone…I’ll bet that one’s pretty high too.

Just saying’ it clearly can be done.
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Sure it can be! Your examples are 3 of the 10 best centers of all time, but it can certainly be done.

One of the aspects to be considered is also just relative skill talent. If you are 6'3", you have to be exceptionally skilled and coordinated to play D-1 basketball. If you are 7' or more...well.... you don't.

If Hunter Dickinson, Luka Garza, or even Kofi Cockburn were 6'6" with the same skills and athleticism, they wouldn't have been power 5 players, let alone All Americans.
 
#331      

InDaAZ

InDaAZ
Eugene, Oregon
InDaAZ
GBIllini said:
The players with really large hands will have more difficulty shooting free throws consistently. When I bought a small basketball set for my sons with one of those half size basketballs that my hand could go nearly half way around I thought this must be what a ball feels like in Shaqs hand. It was hard to get any sort of feel for it to shoot it like a regular basketball.
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I’m not a physics guy, but I’m going to go with the trajectory/arc theory.
 
#332      

HailtotheChief

H
HailtotheChief
I love that Hawk played starters minutes with the 4th most overall playing 27 minutes. He led us in offensive boards and changes shots guarding the 4 spot. I hope this trend of Hawk playing more continues. He seems to be our best option at the 4.
 
#333      

the juiceman cometh

T
the juiceman cometh
GBIllini said:
The players with really large hands will have more difficulty shooting free throws consistently. When I bought a small basketball set for my sons with one of those half size basketballs that my hand could go nearly half way around I thought this must be what a ball feels like in Shaqs hand. It was hard to get any sort of feel for it to shoot it like a regular basketball.
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Look, there's an answer to this problem as well as the arc/trajectory problem, that Kofi's never going to do because it looks silly, but I wish players would get over it. The first coach who can convince players to do it will have an advantage at the FT line. Shoot them underhanded (granny style). It is the most efficient technique, and not just for the bigs.

Repotedly at LSU his coaches tried to convince Shaq to give it a try but he refused.
 
#334      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
Emerson Bigguns said:
Sure it can be! Your examples are 3 of the 10 best centers of all time, but it can certainly be done.

One of the aspects to be considered is also just relative skill talent. If you are 6'3", you have to be exceptionally skilled and coordinated to play D-1 basketball. If you are 7' or more...well.... you don't.

If Hunter Dickinson, Luka Garza, or even Kofi Cockburn were 6'6" with the same skills and athleticism, they wouldn't have been power 5 players, let alone All Americans
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Well I’m not quite sure who I should of fairly compared Shaq and Chamberlain to…Aren’t they top ten as well? Again not trying be a Dickerson.

That would have been throwing out Bill Russell…a whopping 90 % that’s nuts!

Your second point makes sense to me. I’ve enjoyed the discussion.

Celebrate Happy Birthday GIF by Stefanie Shank
 
#335      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
the juiceman cometh said:
Look, there's an answer to this problem as well as the arc/trajectory problem, that Kofi's never going to do because it looks silly, but I wish players would get over it. The first coach who can convince players to do it will have an advantage at the FT line. Shoot them underhanded (granny style). It is the most efficient technique, and not just for the bigs.

Repotedly at LSU his coaches tried to convince Shaq to give it a try but he refused.
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Rick Barry did it his entire career. Unfortunately, he was only able to knock down about 90% of them. (4th best all-time) Who wants to look silly making them all?
 
#336      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
WyattEarp said:
Well I’m not quite sure who I should of fairly compared Shaq and Chamberlain to…Aren’t they top ten as well? Again not trying be a Dickerson.

That would have been throwing out Bill Russell…a whopping 90 % that’s nuts!

Your second point makes sense to me. I’ve enjoyed the discussion.

Celebrate Happy Birthday GIF by Stefanie Shank
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Russell was firmly in the Chamberlain, O'Neal category. (56% career)

I was thinking more in terms of making comparisons with Kofi than Shaq.

Had some fun looking at some of the great big men and their FT%s. There just aren't many examples of 7 footers that made a lot more than 70%. (Dirk being a supreme outlier (88%), which he was shooting from anywhere...)

In context, Kofi's 65% isn't nearly as bad as it sometimes seems.
 
#337      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
Emerson Bigguns said:
Russell was firmly in the Chamberlain, O'Neal category. (56% career)

I was thinking more in terms of making comparisons with Kofi than Shaq.

Had some fun looking at some of the great big men and their FT%s. There just aren't many examples of 7 footers that made a lot more than 70%. (Dirk being a supreme outlier (88%), which he was shooting from anywhere...)

In context, Kofi's 65% isn't nearly as bad as it sometimes seems.
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What really? 56% for Russell…Stupid Internet. I’ll take your word for it.

Yeah, no I actually think Kofi’s is pretty solid at 65% He’s already improved from S1 and we don’t know what his ceiling is just yet. He’s still raw and relatively new to the sport so who knows? I don’t think he’ll ever hit 80 percent. But 70 would be a good goal.
 
#338      

OrangeLife

OrangeLife
OrangeLife
Emerson Bigguns said:
Sure it can be! Your examples are 3 of the 10 best centers of all time, but it can certainly be done.

One of the aspects to be considered is also just relative skill talent. If you are 6'3", you have to be exceptionally skilled and coordinated to play D-1 basketball. If you are 7' or more...well.... you don't.

If Hunter Dickinson, Luka Garza, or even Kofi Cockburn were 6'6" with the same skills and athleticism, they wouldn't have been power 5 players, let alone All Americans.
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Kofi would be playing soccer, Garza would be working for a loan shark, and Hunter would stocking grocery shelves.
 
#339      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
altgeld88 said:
Agree completely. Haven't thought of Connie in years, BTW. RIP. He was a star and had a really unfortunate, difficult path to the NBA, being unfairly accused in a point-shaving scandal and expelled from Iowa as a freshman. The fact that he finally got there, starred, and became a Hall of Famer is a testament to his perseverance as well as talent.
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Basketball is filled with an endless amount of human stories. Stories of great success and personal victory. Stories of perseverance and redemption. And stories of tragedy and much sadness.

You have a Michael Jordan who was cut from his early school team. Who then funneled this embarrassment and personal slight into a unbridled passion and fever to become the Best of All Time. And he did just that. The best baller the World has yet ever seen.

You have wonderfully talented guys who lacked the dedication to develop that talent further. Some who got into trouble. And others who just pissed it all away.

You have the sad stories of young men whose lives were cut short and never got the chance to see what they could do one day on the court — or in life.

And everything and everyone in between.

Having spend a good chunk of my life on a basketball court, I can tell you what stands out for me. There is SO MUCH ball talent in this State, in the Nation, and in the World. It is staggering how much. It is everywhere.

And what really stands out the most? The names of young men the World will never know because for whatever reason they didn’t stay with the game or dedicate themselves to a team or coach or that they had family or personal concerns that stood in the way and they couldn’t bring their game to the World.

All the World’s ball talent we know and recognize. And then, all the World’s ball talent that forever played and still plays in the shadows on outdoor and indoor courts all over the World. Guys that have talent that could be another Jordan or someone else like him that we will never know.

Some might say Basketball is Life. And others might know... it’s more important than that.
 
#340      

GrayGhost77

GrayGhost77
Centennial, CO
GrayGhost77
Roundball Sage said:
Basketball is filled with an endless amount of human stories. Stories of great success and personal victory. Stories of perseverance and redemption. And stories of tragedy and much sadness.

You have a Michael Jordan who was cut from his early school team. Who then funneled this embarrassment and personal slight into a unbridled passion and fever to become the Best of All Time. And he did just that. The best baller the World has yet ever seen.

You have wonderfully talented guys who lacked the dedication to develop that talent further. Some who got into trouble. And others who just pissed it all away.

You have the sad stories of young men whose lives were cut short and never got the chance to see what they could do one day on the court — or in life.

And everything and everyone in between.

Having spend a good chunk of my life on a basketball court, I can tell you what stands out for me. There is SO MUCH ball talent in this State, in the Nation, and in the World. It is staggering how much. It is everywhere.

And what really stands out the most? The names of young men the World will never know because for whatever reason they didn’t stay with the game or dedicate themselves to a team or coach or that they had family or personal concerns that stood in the way and they couldn’t bring their game to the World.

All the World’s ball talent we know and recognize. And then, all the World’s ball talent that forever played and still plays in the shadows on outdoor and indoor courts all over the World. Guys that have talent that could be another Jordan or someone else like him that we will never know.

Some might say Basketball is Life. And others might know... it’s more important than that.
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Username checks out.
 
#344      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
WyattEarp said:
What really? 56% for Russell…Stupid Internet. I’ll take your word for it.

Yeah, no I actually think Kofi’s is pretty solid at 65% He’s already improved from S1 and we don’t know what his ceiling is just yet. He’s still raw and relatively new to the sport so who knows? I don’t think he’ll ever hit 80 percent. But 70 would be a good goal.
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I still think more legs and less rist and elbow is key to consistent FT shooting
 
#346      

pruman91

pruman91
Paducah, Ky
pruman91
Roundball Sage said:
Basketball is filled with an endless amount of human stories. Stories of great success and personal victory. Stories of perseverance and redemption. And stories of tragedy and much sadness.

You have a Michael Jordan who was cut from his early school team. Who then funneled this embarrassment and personal slight into a unbridled passion and fever to become the Best of All Time. And he did just that. The best baller the World has yet ever seen.

You have wonderfully talented guys who lacked the dedication to develop that talent further. Some who got into trouble. And others who just pissed it all away.

You have the sad stories of young men whose lives were cut short and never got the chance to see what they could do one day on the court — or in life.

And everything and everyone in between.

Having spend a good chunk of my life on a basketball court, I can tell you what stands out for me. There is SO MUCH ball talent in this State, in the Nation, and in the World. It is staggering how much. It is everywhere.

And what really stands out the most? The names of young men the World will never know because for whatever reason they didn’t stay with the game or dedicate themselves to a team or coach or that they had family or personal concerns that stood in the way and they couldn’t bring their game to the World.

All the World’s ball talent we know and recognize. And then, all the World’s ball talent that forever played and still plays in the shadows on outdoor and indoor courts all over the World. Guys that have talent that could be another Jordan or someone else like him that we will never know.

Some might say Basketball is Life. And others might know... it’s more important than that.
Click to expand...
Everyone here knows I'm old and I remember the days of the Celtics dynasties but for individual talent , not titles or championships, the most talented basketball player to me was Pistol Pete Marovich in college at LSU
I remember the
Jefferson-Pilot SEC game of the week broadcasts and watching him go off for 50+
points almost every game
A wizard with the ball
JMHO
 
#348      

Illini in Italy

Illini in Italy
Illini in Italy
pruman91 said:
Everyone here knows I'm old and I remember the days of the Celtics dynasties but for individual talent , not titles or championships, the most talented basketball player to me was Pistol Pete Marovich in college at LSU
I remember the
Jefferson-Pilot SEC game of the week broadcasts and watching him go off for 50+
points almost every game
A wizard with the ball
JMHO
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I’d offer up Ralph Sampson as one of the most gifted college basketball players also Pru - there has NEVER been a 7 footer (7’4”!!!) that could do what he could do in terms of handling the ball in the open court. Everyone is going gaga over the ball handling and shooting skills of Chet Holmgren at Gonzaga, and he’s not capable of even washing Sampson’s socks. Pistol Pete was special tho!
 
#349      

Cook

Cook
Richmond, VA
Cook
illinitiger said:
I still think more legs and less rist and elbow is key to consistent FT shooting
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I'm curious why we see so many folks set up at the line in odd/inconsistent body positions. What happened to starting with putting your dominant toe on the nail to line up? One camera view from behind yesterday showed Grandison was lined up offset causing the free throw to be slightly angled rather than a straight shot. Like addressing the ball in golf, everything starts with a consistent set-up. Using the nail as a marker on the floor is very helpful.