Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (January-March 2016)

[QCChief]

Froling would have been a nice pick up but he definitely did not seem to be an instant impact guy. Looked like a guy that would breakout late in his Soph. year or maybe his junior year.

 

[UofIChE06]

That's fair. I only brought up Finke because I believe that they both can play the same position and bring the same strengths and weaknesses as "surrogate" 5's. It would have been nice to have Froling because he could back up Mav, but I think he would have been behind Finke in the rotation, at either the 4 or 5. With Black and Kipper at the 4, I think we were going to see Finke at the 5 even if Froling would have committed, but that's just my opinion. Finke will get stronger, and Froling would have been nice boost to the depth for when Mav graduates.

I've always been more confident about us landing a transfer big, than high school bigs. We would be extremely lucky to land another Thorne, but I don't think it would be crazy to expect some like McLaurin, whom I would take in a heart beat. It doesn't help our long-term situation, but I think that would help the most with recruiting. We don't have many other options anyway.

Agree completely. Finke is going to play the 5 throughout all of his career. Occasionally he may move to the 4 just like other skilled players move between multiple positions. Also, it is pretty reasonable to think someone of Sam Mac's caliber or better would sign up for a fifth year with the Illini. The team should be a legitimate 2 deep team at each position with Abrams and Lucas/Tate, Nunn and JCL/Jordan, Hill and a number of combos, Black and Kipper, and Finke and Morgan. The fact that there are not a lot of freshman means the team won't go through the growing pains from this year. Should be a pretty decent if not spectacular season.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Not sure why, but the news on guys out of Canada has always been slow. However, there are some 2016 Big's still up there and I know we have made contact with some in the past. Kalif Young, Simi Shittu,and Dikembe Muntumbo's nephew, Mlfondu Kambengele. Also, the de-commits will start in a couple of months with coaches getting fired. Always some names come out of that process.
I have not given up on finding a 2016 B1G.

 

[illiniwil]

i think that weve played our best basketball this year when Finke is on the court with another big. so far, because of injury, that has been Mav. i think we should recruit pairs of bigs that can play together, at least our offense seems to run better and we are better on the boards. certainly Finke is one of those guys and Froling would have been as well. skilled 6-9 or better with some skills facing the basket and down low with a defender on his hip.

 

[UofIChE06]

I go with the general consensus that Groce will be here next year 1) we need to show win-loss progress 2) need to recruit a good 2017 class, also I think 3) 2017 will be interesting, we will need to replace 4 seniors + any 5th yr transfers we pick up, we need 2 pg ready & 1-2 bigs ready to be in the rotation...if we do Groce will be here for a long time. If Groce delivers on 2017 class, I think he is here for the long haul.

Don't need 2 pgs in the 17 class. Obviously if two want to jump you take them but with Lucas in 16 there isn't a need for 2 more in the next class. That being said most of the 17 targets aren't exactly true pgs at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if the dominoes start to fall in April/May with respect to that class. Also I don't think you will see Groce holding out for the home runs like Scruggs and Wilkes like he may have done in the past. He knows he needs to get talent in this class.

 

[Obelix]

With Black and Kipper at the 4, I think we were going to see Finke at the 5 even if Froling would have committed, but that's just my opinion.

The way our roster is constructed right now, that is almost guaranteed, even had Froling committed. It is not that I do not believe that Finke will play the 5, he will. We do not have many options and depth, not to mention quality options and depth. But Finke is a lot more efficient at PF and playing at the 4 is to his best interest. I thought and argued the same with Hill. He was never a PF, nor to his best interest to play PF, yet, even today, he still has to play some PF (when both JCL and Nunn are in the game with him).

If you believe Groce, Hill even played some C.

 

[BlindLoyalty]

I've not seen this argument before. Can you back it up with some citations to the applicable rule(s)?

The issue is likely moot as Thorne appears to be returning, but I'd appreciate it if you'd further my education on the matter.

It was one of the specific topics discussed at the past B10 AD meetings. Purdue coach Matt Painter has been a proponent of changing the rule.

May 12, 2015

"Purdue coach Matt Painter has expressed uneasiness with the rule. A year ago he speculated it might not last much longer as it became apparent that it was no longer being utilized as intended.

Now, he's an advocate of reform.

"They allow guys to come after they've graduated, but they come into a two-year master's program and you can only pay for one year," Painter said. "It makes no practical sense. Allow them to come here for one year and play, and then whether they go play professionally or they they stay here, whenever they decide to do it, pay for it so they can get their masters.

"... (Paying for one year) makes it a basketball rule — no ands, ifs or buts. They've just got to modify it, and I think it will work."

 

[Obelix]

It was one of the specific topics discussed at the past B10 AD meetings.

I believe you interpret it differently than what it means. It does not mean that if a player is granted a 6th year, the school will not pay for a second year in the masters program. Just that the rule advocates a 5th year scholarship (and money) for the specific purpose of getting a masters degree (program not offered at current school, etc.), yet the money is not enough to get that degree, which pretty much makes it strictly a basketball rule/decision. That is indeed a hypocrisy. But if you get the 6th year waiver, money is still available.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

I believe you interpret it differently than what it means. It does not mean that if a player is granted a 6th year, the school will not pay for a second year in the masters program. Just that the rule advocates a 5th year scholarship (and money) for the specific purpose of getting a masters degree (program not offered at current school, etc.), yet the money is not enough to get that degree, which pretty much makes it strictly a basketball rule/decision. That is indeed a hypocrisy. But if you get the 6th year waiver, money is still available.

It sounds to me like a grad transfer needing a medical redishirt was a situation that was never contemplated and thus they better start contemplating it because this situation needs to get unf*cked.*

*Con Air

 

[IlliNYC]

People keep talking about recruiting misses here and placing the blame all on Groce. While of course the blame goes to Groce since he is head dog, the fact remains that until the product on the floor looks a heck of a lot better, Illinois is going to continue to miss on top-level recruits. It really is a chicken/egg type of argument. People keep bemoaning the fact that we can't compete until we have top recruits seldom seem to acknowledge that the rebuilding project that is the state of the program has a lot to do with how well we can recruit. A little luck and some time for development will go a long way toward solving this problem. I think the program is on the verge of breaking through but people have to have some patience to see it through.

Hard to blame Groce for individual missed, but legit to blame him for not landing a big in this class. It's a huge roster hole.

 

[Greensboro]

Don't need 2 pgs in the 17 class. Obviously if two want to jump you take them but with Lucas in 16 there isn't a need for 2 more in the next class. That being said most of the 17 targets aren't exactly true pgs at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if the dominoes start to fall in April/May with respect to that class. Also I don't think you will see Groce holding out for the home runs like Scruggs and Wilkes like he may have done in the past. He knows he needs to get talent in this class.

Your right on pgs in 17...wasn't very clear, but we need to have at least 2 pg by 2017 & TJL is likely 1 of them.

I expect a bit more caution on 2017 class as well, but would expect the strategy to change as the class fills up...sign a pg/cg & a big, then start getting more choosy, scholarship 13 or 13+ may be swinging for the fences.

 

[mycitymytime]

Hard to blame Groce for individual missed, but legit to blame him for not landing a big in this class. It's a huge roster hole.

Wouldn't Paul, Thorne and Black covered us in this area. Maybe I am just cutting the guy too much slack - but our three bigs are out. Hard to predict that when recruiting last year.

 

[Deleted member 586966]

Wouldn't Paul, Thorne and Black covered us in this area. Maybe I am just cutting the guy too much slack - but our three bigs are out. Hard to predict that when recruiting last year.

On the flip side of the coin, we didn't know on Thorne until April, Paul was always a big question mark from a mid-major, and Black is still an unknown quantity (in addition to being undersized)

 

[zpfled]

On the flip side of the coin, we didn't know on Thorne until April, Paul was always a big question mark from a mid-major, and Black is still an unknown quantity (in addition to being undersized)

Wasn't Thorne a replacement for Paul or Colbert? Pretty good recovery if so.

 

[BirdDog9048]

Wasn't Thorne a replacement for Paul or Colbert? Pretty good recovery if so.

Colbert

 

[Greensboro]

Wasn't Thorne a replacement for Paul or Colbert? Pretty good recovery if so.

Colbert

Definitely wasn't Paul as he was after Thorne & Lewis, think we had 2 open at the time Thorne committed; Cosby was first open, then Colbert...so I think we take Thorne even if Colbert returns, then Lewis came about late when we knew Tracy was down for the year. But if Colbert didn't leave, then I think we miss out on Lewis.

For what it is worth Paul's scholarship goes to Kipper.

 

[bleedsorangenblue]

On the flip side of the coin, we didn't know on Thorne until April, Paul was always a big question mark from a mid-major, and Black is still an unknown quantity (in addition to being undersized)

The point is that the bases were covered as best as was possible given the situation. Sure, it would have been nice to recruit a better quality big but it wasn't for lack of trying. This goes back to the fact that until there is some better product on the court, they are not going to land the kinds of recruits that are going to provide an immediate impact. This is particularly true with bigs, which are fewer and farther between and take longer to develop.

I do see the center position as our most glaring hole moving forward. Where is that Dutch boy when you need him? :noidea:

 

[mycitymytime]

Wow. Lots of moving pieces. Not sure if that is normal for a top program. Obviously some programs have that when half the team goes pro, but that presents a different set of circumstances (impact on culture, expectations, etc...)

 

[Deleted member 586966]

The point is that the bases were covered as best as was possible given the situation. Sure, it would have been nice to recruit a better quality big but it wasn't for lack of trying. This goes back to the fact that until there is some better product on the court, they are not going to land the kinds of recruits that are going to provide an immediate impact. This is particularly true with bigs, which are fewer and farther between and take longer to develop.

I do see the center position as our most glaring hole moving forward. Where is that Dutch boy when you need him? :noidea:

Chicken and the egg, my friend. The one remotely successful season we've had under Groce did not exactly lead to a boon in recruiting. That's why I'm skeptical when people say wait until the recruits see next year's team. The bulk of '17 kids won't even wait that long.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Wow. Lots of moving pieces. Not sure if that is normal for a top program. Obviously some programs have that when half the team goes pro, but that presents a different set of circumstances (impact on culture, expectations, etc...)

We aren't a top program. Groce inherited a program with gaping holes. He's scrambled to fill them, pretty admirably for the most part. Our ridiculous injury situation makes this almost a perfect storm.

Yes, Groce has had a litany of failures (for various reasons) recruiting 1s and 5s. We finally get a complete PG next season. Need a competitive big to complete the '16 class. Then add Tilmon and the rest for a monster '17 class.

 

[CAHALL15]

We aren't a top program. Groce inherited a program with gaping holes. He's scrambled to fill them, pretty admirably for the most part. Our ridiculous injury situation makes this almost a perfect storm.

Yes, Groce has had a litany of failures (for various reasons) recruiting 1s and 5s. We finally get a complete PG next season. Need a competitive big to complete the '16 class. Then add Tilmon and the rest for a monster '17 class.

Is anybody else paying attention to the bigs at the blue bloods? Diallo and Bragg come off the bench at KU and generally get less than 10 minutes. Labissere at UK comes off the bench and if memory serves me well, generally gets about 10-15 min per game. Humphries, the 7ft Australian from La Lumiere generally doesn't even get in games and of course, UK just signed 2-3 highly rated bigs. Jeter at Duke doesn't play despite their incredibly short bench. I hope Tilmon understands he will get the nod from day one.

 

[HoopCity]

Is anybody else paying attention to the bigs at the blue bloods? Diallo and Bragg come off the bench at KU and generally get less than 10 minutes. Labissere at UK comes off the bench and if memory serves me well, generally gets about 10-15 min per game. Humphries, the 7ft Australian from La Lumiere generally doesn't even get in games and of course, UK just signed 2-3 highly rated bigs. Jeter at Duke doesn't play despite their incredibly short bench. I hope Tilmon understands he will get the nod from day one.

Do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big pond?

At Illinois you have a chance to be a life long legend.

At the others just another fish in the pond and quickly forgotten ...

 

[TownieMatt]

Is anybody else paying attention to the bigs at the blue bloods? Diallo and Bragg come off the bench at KU and generally get less than 10 minutes. Labissere at UK comes off the bench and if memory serves me well, generally gets about 10-15 min per game. Humphries, the 7ft Australian from La Lumiere generally doesn't even get in games and of course, UK just signed 2-3 highly rated bigs. Jeter at Duke doesn't play despite their incredibly short bench. I hope Tilmon understands he will get the nod from day one.

Good point. I wonder if pointing that out to a kid is considered "negative recruiting"? You certainly never want to tell a kid "Hey you aren't good enough to play at X school, so come here." But you do want to highlight early playing time available here.

 

[Newman]

Do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big pond?

At Illinois you have a chance to be a life long legend.

At the others just another fish in the pond and quickly forgotten ...

The latter is the most likely result, but these kids are sometimes told that they can be the big fish in a big pond. Athletes should be confident about their potential but there's a huge gray area where too high of aspirations can be detrimental to their career.

 

[combes]

Is anybody else paying attention to the bigs at the blue bloods? Diallo and Bragg come off the bench at KU and generally get less than 10 minutes. Labissere at UK comes off the bench and if memory serves me well, generally gets about 10-15 min per game. Humphries, the 7ft Australian from La Lumiere generally doesn't even get in games and of course, UK just signed 2-3 highly rated bigs. Jeter at Duke doesn't play despite their incredibly short bench. I hope Tilmon understands he will get the nod from day one.

Kentucky isn't as good as they usually are, and Labissere has been a huge disappointment. He is more highly ranked than guys playing ahead of him.