That's fair. I only brought up Finke because I believe that they both can play the same position and bring the same strengths and weaknesses as "surrogate" 5's. It would have been nice to have Froling because he could back up Mav, but I think he would have been behind Finke in the rotation, at either the 4 or 5. With Black and Kipper at the 4, I think we were going to see Finke at the 5 even if Froling would have committed, but that's just my opinion. Finke will get stronger, and Froling would have been nice boost to the depth for when Mav graduates.
I've always been more confident about us landing a transfer big, than high school bigs. We would be extremely lucky to land another Thorne, but I don't think it would be crazy to expect some like McLaurin, whom I would take in a heart beat. It doesn't help our long-term situation, but I think that would help the most with recruiting. We don't have many other options anyway.
I go with the general consensus that Groce will be here next year 1) we need to show win-loss progress 2) need to recruit a good 2017 class, also I think 3) 2017 will be interesting, we will need to replace 4 seniors + any 5th yr transfers we pick up, we need 2 pg ready & 1-2 bigs ready to be in the rotation...if we do Groce will be here for a long time. If Groce delivers on 2017 class, I think he is here for the long haul.
With Black and Kipper at the 4, I think we were going to see Finke at the 5 even if Froling would have committed, but that's just my opinion.
I've not seen this argument before. Can you back it up with some citations to the applicable rule(s)?
The issue is likely moot as Thorne appears to be returning, but I'd appreciate it if you'd further my education on the matter.
It was one of the specific topics discussed at the past B10 AD meetings.
I believe you interpret it differently than what it means. It does not mean that if a player is granted a 6th year, the school will not pay for a second year in the masters program. Just that the rule advocates a 5th year scholarship (and money) for the specific purpose of getting a masters degree (program not offered at current school, etc.), yet the money is not enough to get that degree, which pretty much makes it strictly a basketball rule/decision. That is indeed a hypocrisy. But if you get the 6th year waiver, money is still available.
People keep talking about recruiting misses here and placing the blame all on Groce. While of course the blame goes to Groce since he is head dog, the fact remains that until the product on the floor looks a heck of a lot better, Illinois is going to continue to miss on top-level recruits. It really is a chicken/egg type of argument. People keep bemoaning the fact that we can't compete until we have top recruits seldom seem to acknowledge that the rebuilding project that is the state of the program has a lot to do with how well we can recruit. A little luck and some time for development will go a long way toward solving this problem. I think the program is on the verge of breaking through but people have to have some patience to see it through.
Don't need 2 pgs in the 17 class. Obviously if two want to jump you take them but with Lucas in 16 there isn't a need for 2 more in the next class. That being said most of the 17 targets aren't exactly true pgs at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if the dominoes start to fall in April/May with respect to that class. Also I don't think you will see Groce holding out for the home runs like Scruggs and Wilkes like he may have done in the past. He knows he needs to get talent in this class.
Hard to blame Groce for individual missed, but legit to blame him for not landing a big in this class. It's a huge roster hole.
Wouldn't Paul, Thorne and Black covered us in this area. Maybe I am just cutting the guy too much slack - but our three bigs are out. Hard to predict that when recruiting last year.
On the flip side of the coin, we didn't know on Thorne until April, Paul was always a big question mark from a mid-major, and Black is still an unknown quantity (in addition to being undersized)
ColbertWasn't Thorne a replacement for Paul or Colbert? Pretty good recovery if so.
Wasn't Thorne a replacement for Paul or Colbert? Pretty good recovery if so.
Colbert
On the flip side of the coin, we didn't know on Thorne until April, Paul was always a big question mark from a mid-major, and Black is still an unknown quantity (in addition to being undersized)
The point is that the bases were covered as best as was possible given the situation. Sure, it would have been nice to recruit a better quality big but it wasn't for lack of trying. This goes back to the fact that until there is some better product on the court, they are not going to land the kinds of recruits that are going to provide an immediate impact. This is particularly true with bigs, which are fewer and farther between and take longer to develop.
I do see the center position as our most glaring hole moving forward. Where is that Dutch boy when you need him? :noidea:
Wow. Lots of moving pieces. Not sure if that is normal for a top program. Obviously some programs have that when half the team goes pro, but that presents a different set of circumstances (impact on culture, expectations, etc...)
We aren't a top program. Groce inherited a program with gaping holes. He's scrambled to fill them, pretty admirably for the most part. Our ridiculous injury situation makes this almost a perfect storm.
Yes, Groce has had a litany of failures (for various reasons) recruiting 1s and 5s. We finally get a complete PG next season. Need a competitive big to complete the '16 class. Then add Tilmon and the rest for a monster '17 class.
Is anybody else paying attention to the bigs at the blue bloods? Diallo and Bragg come off the bench at KU and generally get less than 10 minutes. Labissere at UK comes off the bench and if memory serves me well, generally gets about 10-15 min per game. Humphries, the 7ft Australian from La Lumiere generally doesn't even get in games and of course, UK just signed 2-3 highly rated bigs. Jeter at Duke doesn't play despite their incredibly short bench. I hope Tilmon understands he will get the nod from day one.
Is anybody else paying attention to the bigs at the blue bloods? Diallo and Bragg come off the bench at KU and generally get less than 10 minutes. Labissere at UK comes off the bench and if memory serves me well, generally gets about 10-15 min per game. Humphries, the 7ft Australian from La Lumiere generally doesn't even get in games and of course, UK just signed 2-3 highly rated bigs. Jeter at Duke doesn't play despite their incredibly short bench. I hope Tilmon understands he will get the nod from day one.
Do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big pond?
At Illinois you have a chance to be a life long legend.
At the others just another fish in the pond and quickly forgotten ...
Is anybody else paying attention to the bigs at the blue bloods? Diallo and Bragg come off the bench at KU and generally get less than 10 minutes. Labissere at UK comes off the bench and if memory serves me well, generally gets about 10-15 min per game. Humphries, the 7ft Australian from La Lumiere generally doesn't even get in games and of course, UK just signed 2-3 highly rated bigs. Jeter at Duke doesn't play despite their incredibly short bench. I hope Tilmon understands he will get the nod from day one.