He's between the 140s and 160s on most other sites. Scout has always been high on him (which is largely what's kept his composite ranking in the 100-115 range for the past year).
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (July-August 2016)
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He's between the 140s and 160s on most other sites. Scout has always been high on him (which is largely what's kept his composite ranking in the 100-115 range for the past year).
I think that is only service that has him ranked in Top 100.
he is #162 on 247.
He is kind of an enigma. Need to see how he does on an AAU team that plays some showcase tournies.
The only reason I could see Groce not taking a Frazier verbal as soon as possible is if he thinks he stands a GREAT chance of landing Scruggs. I think that the 4 remaining schollies go like this:
One of Scruggs (1st choice) and Frazier (2nd)
One of Goodwin (1st), Eastern (2nd), Lewis (3rd; doesn't seem likely anymore), J. Culver/Kigab (t-4th; both unlikely)
One of Tilmon (1st), D. Culver (2nd), Uyaelumno (t-3rd), John (t-3rd), Kiir (4th - not sure if we're even really on him at this point)
One of Justin Smith (most likely) or a long shot at pretty much any position; if not Smith or perhaps Eastern (whom I think you have to take regardless of positional fit due to his talent), you cross your fingers for one of Bowen, Wilkes, Malik Williams, RaiQuan Gray, etc. If you swing for the fences and come up empty on scholarship #6, you check out the transfer market.
If you miss on all top targets, Verge, Negron, Gilyard, and who knows what late risers are fallbacks.
Not sure we have been seeing Groce having a knack for discovering a kid under the radar or that others miss.
Maybe I am not thinking of somebody- but we really don't have any big surprises on the roster thus far.
If anything- Groce missing completely on a guy like Ulis, and not bringing LaVert over makes me wonder.
I really hope he does not settle for a Frazier verbal this early. Seems like the kind of Top 150-ish talent you can get well into the HS season.
Groce would take Frazier in a heartbeat regardless of how much Scruggs likes us.
Wrong. Groce obviously likes this kid or he wouldn't be getting this much attention. Rankings don't mean much outside the top 20.
I think Joel was right with the identifying talent. He offered guys like Swanigan, Goodwin, Juwan Evans, and others long before they took off. He and others certainly missed on Ulis. Recruiting these guys and actually getting a commitment has been the issue. The LaVert situation seems to have two different sides.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Right, in your view Groce is a latter day Chauncey Gardener. Let's just say we disagree.
Um. Ok.
In that case we should have an awesome team under Groce after four years.
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
dsboyce
- Golden, IL
Identifying talent hasn't been the problem. Groce does a very good job of that, often offering kids well before they blow up. The problem has been closing on them.
False.
Top-100 recruits during Groce's tenure (and yes, I'm counting Malcolm Hill - plenty of kids decommit when there's a coaching change; it took work to retain him). 247 Composite rankings given, along with national class rank.
2013 - National Ranking #14
Kendrick Nunn - #56
Malcolm Hill - #70
(Additional top-150: Austin Colbert - #125)
2014 - National Ranking #55 (only two recruits in class)
Leron Black - #42
2015 - National Ranking #16
Jalen Coleman-Lands - #37
DJ Williams - #78
(Additional top-150: Aaron Jordan - #117)
2016 - National Ranking #100 (only recruit in class - Kipper counts as 2015)
Additional top-150: Te'Jon Lucas - #142
Two top-20 classes, five top-100 players, and eight top-150 is above average for a P5 program. Mike Thorne was also a big get as a transfer and Finke looks like a gem given his ranking (#196). You can talk all you want about his PG misses, but recruiting hasn't been as big of an issue as pure, dumb bad luck the last two years. I get that it's a results-driven business where coaches make millions to win games, no ifs ands, or buts. The crowd that insists on casting Groce's tenure and the state of our program in black and white has an ironclad argument: who cares what intervening circumstances there have been? Groce is paid to win games and hasn't won enough. I can appreciate that perspective.
However, I, and many others here, choose to see the situation as more nuanced. I also think the pitchfork crowd is underestimating how much more damage would be done if Whitman chose to burn it down without giving Groce another year. If he'd let him go three months ago like a lot of you wanted, it would have been a disaster in terms of job desirability, program stability, athletic department stability, recruiting, team psyche, etc. Seriously, try to get this through your head: NO ONE IS HAPPY with how things have gone. Some of us are just thinking bigger picture than others. I'm all for Groce turning it around. If he can't, I'm all for replacing him. It just hasn't been the right time yet. If you disagree with that assertion, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.
JJB
- Chicago, IL
If we ever meet at an Illini event, I am definitely buying you a beer.
We disagree on the recruiting. I think you would be hard pressed to find one other power conference program who has brought in only one three star PG and no starter quality centers after four years. Abysmal and the record speaks for itself.
That said, I was all for giving Groce time to deliver on the 2017 class that he has worked hard on for years.
So far he has a kid ranked 200 something, Damonte who is now an enigma and 116 and dropping, and people here want to jump on a PG ranked 160.
We can do better and this is his chance. If he can't deliver a class that will change the trajectory of the program and make us top half of Big Ten, then yes get rid of him.
High D1 is 75% recruiting.
Honestly, it is Tilmon and Goodwin or bust.
This is something we generally agree on. Unless you substitute Eastern or Scruggs for Goodwin and D. Culver or Malik Williams for Tilmon. Obviously, that's unlikely. Missing on Tilmon and Goodwin would be fairly disastrous.
Sure. We just need a couple high impact guys in this five man class who can contribute pretty quickly and change the overall view out there in the AAU circuit. Would take Scruggs in a minute.
Not even close to true. They may mean less or be less accurate the further you get away from the top 10-20, but there is still a pretty solid correlation well beyond that top 20.
A grain of salt would pair great with the fixation on his ranking. I understand the rhyme and reason for it. But a Frazier commitment ain't settling. He may not be a Scruggs(sorry, long shot), he may not revamp the program to the extent many of us long for, but Frazier is still a plus. You want to improve your odds of landing Tilmon and Goodwin? Selling future point guard play helps there. Who are our other viable options at this point? Don't be so quick to shrug off a player like Frazier who genuinely may want to be apart of the program, especially considering where we're at.
Agree. Big Ten caliber player at a position of need. If he wants to commit, you take him no questions asked (unless Scruggs is a guaranteed commitment, which...just isn't happening, imo). With news that the staff is trying to organize an official visit next month for Frazier, it's pretty clear they're hoping he'll pop ASAP. I think he'll end up being pretty good, fwiw.
Well I can't fault the staff for trying to get depth at PG considering how awful and lacking we have been there, but not the kind of player we need to get to next level IMO.
This would simply not be the class that people envisioned for 2017 IMO and leaves us with only two scholarships in the class.
Hopefully those go to Top 50-75 type players.
Let's cross our fingers we land Scout Trent Frazier and not Rivals Trent Frazier :thumb:
LOL.
He looks pretty good in some videos.
Needs to test his game on AAU circuit this summer.
Another thought on this, I think you're overstating something that is probably closer to the truth, and that is there's likely not as much difference between a kid ranked #90 and one ranked #130, while there's a much greater chance that there's a big difference between a kid ranked #10 and one ranked #50. But your odds of landing a good player are higher if you sign a 5* vs a 4*. And same for 4* vs 3*. After that, it probably doesn't matter as much, but now you're down in the 120+ rankings, and hopefully UI doesn't have too many guys in that range.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
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