Marquette 71, Illinois 64 Postgame

#201      

Saturdaze

S
Saturdaze
Also, we need to get used to the TOs as long as BU is coach, and stop blaming the players. Below are the TOs per game for each of BUs seasons here. Players have come and gone every year yet they all get the same 12-13 TOs per game.

2017 - 13.3
2018 - 13.2
2019 - 12.1
2020 - 13.0
2021 - 12.4
2022 - 12.9
2023 - 12.0 (so far)

Everyone here is complaining about the players, but its not a player problem.
 
#202      

dbeverly26

dbeverly26
dbeverly26
Nothing like a tough loss to confirm everyone’s priors. Rough night for the “free throws will cost us the season” crowd, just having to sit there and watch “we don’t have a point guard” and “Hawkins sucks” have all the fun.

(“We shoot too many threes” making an unexpectedly strong showing on a night when we hit 37% on twos.)
 
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#203      

Champaign Toast

C
Fan since Kiwane Garris
Champaign Toast
Watching Marquette tonight, I thought about comments that Shauna Green made on signing day. Paraphrased: "A lot of players say that they want to play fast and play free. Coaches may say the same thing, but not all teams actually play that way..." Marquette played fast, for sure. Something Coach Smart said repeatedly in his televised huddle: "Keep flowing." I infer that flow could suggest a kind of offensive freedom.

I was super impressed by Marquette tonight, not only by Smart's trademark intense defense. Beyond Kolek performing wizardry and Kam Jones hitting big shots, I couldn't help but draw comparisons between Oso Ighodaro and his Milwaukee neighbor, Giannis.
 
#204      

LoveLovie

L
LoveLovie
dbeverly26 said:
Nothing like a tough loss to confirm everyone’s priors. Rough night for the “free throws will cost us the season” crowd, just having to sit there and watch “we don’t have a point guard” and “Hawkins sucks” have all the fun.

(“We shoot too many threes” making an unexpectedly strong showing on a night when we hit 37% on twos.)
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To be fair our free throw shooting was TSJ and domask, not the Ty Rodgers and Dainja’s of the world
 
#206      

TyKFactus

T
TyKFactus
Saturdaze said:
What’s Coleman’s role on the team? I think one of BUs problems is his ”system” requires players to excel simultaneously at too many roles. What would make everyone happy with Coleman? He’s already a great defender, and rebounder. He was top 10 in the B1G last year in 2pt FG%, and assist %.

He’s frustrating because he’s been put in a role that requires him to have PG skills while also shooting 35% from 3. It’s an unrealistic expectation.

These are his ranks in BIG10 last year:
13th - rebounds
12th - offensive rebounds
17th - defensive rebounds
15th - assists
19th - steals
9th - blocks
8th - 2pt FG%
7th - Defensive win shares
14th - defensive rating

That is a great player right there he’s just being expected to excel beyond his strengths. It’s on the coaches, imo.
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Yeah.. on my drive home from the game my ultimate thought process was how bad Cohawk played. After he made a few mistakes his body language was really bad. I think setting him a couple plays early in the game is key. Once he made the accidental tap in and the crowd went nuts, he had a huge block and a 3 very close together. I think getting him involved early is pretty essential.

(Edit)

He played pretty well after that. Defensively, he was awful imo. That worries me a lot because if you can’t get up for this one, then I don’t know the answer. However, after tonight I can tell he thrives off of positive fan feedback. He got rushed tonight early. Let’s see how he responds.
 
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#207      

HensonHall71

H
HensonHall71
I would have loved to see Harris this game for his defense on Kolek and Jones alone. DGL was a negative this game and really isn’t ready against this level of competition.

This is going to be frustrating in March not having Harris available- I understand his decision if he was behind DGL in the rotation already he new his PT was going to be limited this year, but these are the games we need him for
 
#208      

PepeSilvia

P
PepeSilvia
BlindLoyalty said:
Fun game. Goode & Domask probably can’t play much better than that. Shannon & Hawkins are what they are. Everyone knows the roster hole that limits this squads ceiling. Jay Wright called it out at halftime of the IL v Arky game explaining that you can’t win big if your leading assist man is your 6’10” big man. We will see how far a roster replete with forwards can advance. Should be fun to watch.
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The biggest hole of the team tonight wasn't a point guard. It was the lack of a good big.

Dainja simply isn't athletic enough to play d and Coleman has not been good and is just kinda soft inside.
 
#209      

AZILL

AZILL
AZILL
HensonHall71 said:
I would have loved to see Harris this game for his defense on Kolek and Jones alone. DGL was a negative this game and really isn’t ready against this level of competition.

This is going to be frustrating in March not having Harris available- I understand his decision if he was behind DGL in the rotation already he new his PT was going to be limited this year, but these are the games we need him for
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While I agree, I cannot fault Sencire in the least for his decision. He is looking out for his own best interests..... same as everyone else in D1/P2 basketball.
 
#210      

DAM1298

D
DAM1298
aaeismacgychel said:
I'm going to be real for a sec- DGL is raw. Very raw. It is extremely difficult to come into the B10 as a freshman and have success in conference. Yes, you can look good against directional non-con opponents, but I think the people who are expecting a lot from this season are overly hopeful for something that is fairly rare. He seems to have athleticism and drive and that can certainly take him far, but based on what we've seen from him thus far, he's probably going to need a year and an offseason to cook.
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Yeah, I wasn’t trying to suggest I think he’s ready. My only point is he’s the one guy on the roster who fits the profile of what we need — a guard with a handle who has the potential to break down defenses, get to the paint, create shots, run PnRs. Do I think he gets there this year? Likely no. But if we want to find a way to work on our biggest weakness, he might be our best shot, slim as that shot may be. Which is why I think you keep giving him chances to prove himself; hopefully it accelerates his growth, and worst case scenario, he/his family are happy he’s not riding the bench and we have less chance he transfers.
 
#212      

FrankNitty30

F
FrankNitty30
HensonHall71 said:
CoHawk is awful, you keep expecting him to mature and stop making lackadaisical passes yet he’s still the same player. He really shouldn’t shoot threes it’s not his game. His defense was awful tonight as well.

Shannon didn’t seem like himself, otherwise we seemed to match up well with them. if we get a typical game from our best players it’s a different result
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His defense kept us in the game
 
#214      

alexander58

A
alexander58
One Man Fast Break said:
Hansberry did not look ready at all for big time basketball today. Hawkins for all his frustrations is still an excellent defender most of the time.
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Considering he was matched up with a giraffe most of his minutes, I thought Hansberry did fine. He didn’t appear timid. Given the right match up,I expect solid minutes from him.
 
#215      

alexander58

A
alexander58
Saturdaze said:
What’s Coleman’s role on the team? I think one of BUs problems is his ”system” requires players to excel simultaneously at too many roles. What would make everyone happy with Coleman? He’s already a great defender, and rebounder. He was top 10 in the B1G last year in 2pt FG%, and assist %.

He’s frustrating because he’s been put in a role that requires him to have PG skills while also shooting 35% from 3. It’s an unrealistic expectation.

These are his ranks in BIG10 last year:
13th - rebounds
12th - offensive rebounds
17th - defensive rebounds
15th - assists
19th - steals
9th - blocks
8th - 2pt FG%
7th - Defensive win shares
14th - defensive rating

That is a great player right there he’s just being expected to excel beyond his strengths. It’s on the coaches, imo.
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You can’t put all of a player’s shortcomings on coaches.
 
#216      

Goillinikobd

Goillinikobd
Southeastern US
Goillinikobd
PepeSilvia said:
Coleman needs to start being a dirty work type guy instead of being a focal point of the offense. That part of the offense needs to be reworked.

Shannon, Domask, and Rodgers are capable of facilitating. Don't need tall Curbelo playing point forward. Also, Harmon and DGL should be capable of facilitating so there shouldn't be a need for it with Coleman unlike last year.
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If Coleman is the focal point of our offense he better start attacking the basket and scoring some points. Most of the time, when he does drive, it’s like he is not allowed to get closer than 10 feet, where he turns AWAY from the basket and looks for help back outside. The guy is what, 6’ 10” ?
 
#217      

Ga65

G
Ga65
HailtotheChief said:
I would prefer Hawk to play to his strengths and take open shots and not go one on one. He us a career 42 percent shooter and 27 percent from 3. If he plays great D and makes quality passes and takes open shots then thats what I want from him. He is not a high percentage back to the basket scorer. He just isn't. Domask is our #2 and we need Ty and Hawk to play to their strengths and not force things. Quincy, Domask. and Goode didn't play perfect but they played well and didn't force things. If we do that as a team we will be fine. Quincy was 0 for 3 and DGL was too but only maybe 1 shot from DGL was a bad shot. Ty didn't take any bad shots he never does..missing a shot is one thing but taking a bad shot or dumb pass is another. Its clear who does that most often
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Don’t understand why he won’t take the ten footer. Everyone in the place knows he is going to pass and cover the lanes. He has to shoot those!
 
#218      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
Seen some comments about Dain not getting minutes but unfortunately he got stapled to the bench after his bad turnover in the first half. It was the same type of play the coaching staff got on him about all last year, dribbling too much against a pressure D. Then the really unnecessary and dumb goaltending call, he was SUPER late and it was obviously going to be a miss so why hit it? Can't keep making the same mistakes and expect to play a lot.
 
#219      

Da88

D
Da88
Missing on a PG didn't help in that game last night. Ty is going to have a learning curve, but maybe more importantly is the trade off we made. We took Ty away from where he was most effective last year. He was a junkyard dog getting rebounds and second chance points down low. He would try to drive from the wing. He is now up top and there is no clear replacement for his previous role.
Oddly, he was in position to do what he does best at the end of the game and passed it out for a missed 3. I wonder if he is now thinking he should be passing instead of shooting?
 
#220      

HailtotheChief

H
HailtotheChief
blackdog said:
Seen some comments about Dain not getting minutes but unfortunately he got stapled to the bench after his bad turnover in the first half. It was the same type of play the coaching staff got on him about all last year, dribbling too much against a pressure D. Then the really unnecessary and dumb goaltending call, he was SUPER late and it was obviously going to be a miss so why hit it? Can't keep making the same mistakes and expect to play a lot.
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The Coach for Oakland brought up a point about Rocket Watts that sometimes " butts need to meet pine". The open shots we missed are one thing but careless passes and mental lapses are another. Especially against good teams are another. Dain isn't the only one that needs to see this happen. I wouldn't mind a new line up to send a message against Valpo on Friday.
 
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#223      

Butters

B
Butters
Stevegarbs said:
Yet Brad says, "I have no problem with the way Coleman is playing." SMDH.
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Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF
 
#224      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
Saturdaze said:
What’s Coleman’s role on the team? I think one of BUs problems is his ”system” requires players to excel simultaneously at too many roles. What would make everyone happy with Coleman? He’s already a great defender, and rebounder. He was top 10 in the B1G last year in 2pt FG%, and assist %.

He’s frustrating because he’s been put in a role that requires him to have PG skills while also shooting 35% from 3. It’s an unrealistic expectation.

These are his ranks in BIG10 last year:
13th - rebounds
12th - offensive rebounds
17th - defensive rebounds
15th - assists
19th - steals
9th - blocks
8th - 2pt FG%
7th - Defensive win shares
14th - defensive rating

That is a great player right there he’s just being expected to excel beyond his strengths. Its on the coaches, imo.
Click to expand...
I think you're right with Coleman. Thus far in his playing career he has excelled the most when he's been given clear straightforward tasks, especially with regards to shutting down a certain player or attacking the boards. It almost seems like the more freedom and options CoHawk has, the more he overthinks things or forces things. I do think he'd probably benefit from a simpler game plan for him by the coaching staff. He has a lot of skills yet has trouble identifying which specific skill to use in a given moment of gameplay
 
#225      

theNewGuy

theNewGuy
Dallas, TX
theNewGuy
Bad turnovers
Bad shot selection
Both things that can be brought on with nerves and can be cleaned up. I'm not worried about those.

What I noticed Marquette do that we certainly can learn from... getting quality chances early in the shot clock.
We tend to just pass the ball past the 3 pt line way too much. Marquette was getting to the basket quick and their adjustments didn't end up in rushed shots like ours typically do