Premature assessment and hardly the point in any case.
New Mexico State 74, Illinois 69 POSTGAME
Premature assessment and hardly the point in any case.
One quick point-
We haven't played anyone really good yet, even the games we have lost have been to mediocre teams, mostly.
I want to see us play Missouri, MSU, teams like that, to see just how far we are from the stated goal of winning titles.
Like a few guys have said, we were close without bigs, but how close will we be to top tier teams is the real question. This is a rebuild, onward and upward, not expecting overnight turnarounds just progress please.
We haven't played anyone really good yet, even the games we have lost have been to mediocre teams, mostly.
I want to see us play Missouri, MSU, teams like that, to see just how far we are from the stated goal of winning titles.
Like a few guys have said, we were close without bigs, but how close will we be to top tier teams is the real question. This is a rebuild, onward and upward, not expecting overnight turnarounds just progress please.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Frazier veering off into hero ball, as a by product of his success, wasn't great.
Don't get me wrong, I love Frazier's scoring acumen and attack mentality. Needs to improve his decision making, along with cutting down his giveaways.
That may be true for the minority of fans, including myself. I coach so I get much satisfaction from watching young players develop, analyzing offenses/defenses, trying to see what went wrong/right on a particular procession, etc.
But when attendance is 5,695 at United Center on a Saturday, it also clearly means that the vast majority of fans do not see the appeal of following and paying for a team that does not win games. That will always be true.
So the bottom line is what is needed to get there, and that is where opinions differ. For me, it is clear that we do not have the horses and talent in the frontcourt, so unless recruiting improves, things will not change. Unless we improve from where we have been in the last 12 years, no coaching and system will be good enough to build a consistent B1G and national competitor. JMO.
Do you guys know if we have games scheduled at the UC next year/subsequent years, or can we get a hold on it for a bit?
Deleted member 631370
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Here's a fun fact. We are #326 in the nation in blocks shots as a team.
The fact is, we cannot protect the rim. And NMSU had way too many easy buckets last night because they were aggressive and went at us. This is going to be a theme all year. Our defense is predicated on pressure and denying the ball into the paint, but if our opponents manage to penetrate the perimeter pressure, we are in big trouble.
Sure, you can look at it from the perspective of "we're losing close games because of costly errors late". That is true. But we shouldn't even be in a position to lose a game in the final minute. If we had a functioning front court, more than likely we have the NMSU iced away in the final few minutes and win by 8-9.
That's why it's so important to get a guy like Thamba. I don't care how raw he may be offensively, but we need rim protectors in the worst way. that is our critical weakness at this stage in the season, and I don't see that changing.
Deleted member 4333
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Aaron Jordan is our only reliable 3 point shooter. He attempted 2 last night.
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
A shortage of bigs - particularly on defense - is the reason why we end up in situations where we have late-game, high pressure inbounding against mediocre teams.
Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but without a legitimately sized defensive presence down low (along with lack of athletic quickness from the guys we do have down low to help make up for it), teams are going to find open baskets underneath all season long.
The Haas' and Happ's of the world are going to feast on us (or at the very least force us to adjust in ways that leave their guards open for threes). I love LB and his motor, but he's just over-matched too often, and there's not much we can do about it (this season) other than hope Spicy G develops faster than expected to be serviceable defensively.
BUT, we fill that gap in, and I think we're a meaningfully better team. I would expect at least tourney bound, if not even better. Just don't think that's gonna happen this year, and potentially next if we aren't able to get a B1G ready big man or Spicy G doesn't develop.
Everyone has jumped n this Trent Frazier train due to his last three outings but some of his decision making down the stretch was questionable.
B10 play will be totally different from the mid major games. Teams with with really strong guards have exposed Frazier and Lucas for them to be the generals of this pressure defense IMO
So freshman guards make bad choices down the stretch. In other breaking news, it gets hot at the equator. It's a learning process, and not just for the three freshmen guards, but Kipper and Lucas basically who only played 1/2 a year last season and AJ who didn't play much in two years. Like Lou said....patience.
Agreed. And expectations. People expected Underwood to wave his magic wand and we would be in the tourney.
I'm enjoying watching games again and like the future of our program. It's clear this is an exciting style of play.
Perhaps we should give more thought to varying our defense by playing more zone.
Seems as if BU track record might be predicated on his teams (now-past) totally buying into his system/ideology for play/tempo etc...
Seems as if the ILLINI play well and execute in practices, per the coaches, yet clam up and play stiff to start nearly every game. BU past record meaning at OSU, seems to validate this at least partially, right? I mean slow losing record and then picks it up and makes tourney. That stated, this is the B1G and not the 12 or SFA conference...so, keep learning, buying in, playing loose and we will see.
The future is bright regardless as this class of freshman will be outstanding in 19-20, unfortunately for all of us, we wanted more to soon (society in general) and must wait even longer albeit already 10+ years of this status!
Williams, Frazier, Smith, Ayo, Liddell, Okoro and a few others and we will be scary good with the system and learning in place!
Seems as if the ILLINI play well and execute in practices, per the coaches, yet clam up and play stiff to start nearly every game. BU past record meaning at OSU, seems to validate this at least partially, right? I mean slow losing record and then picks it up and makes tourney. That stated, this is the B1G and not the 12 or SFA conference...so, keep learning, buying in, playing loose and we will see.
The future is bright regardless as this class of freshman will be outstanding in 19-20, unfortunately for all of us, we wanted more to soon (society in general) and must wait even longer albeit already 10+ years of this status!
Williams, Frazier, Smith, Ayo, Liddell, Okoro and a few others and we will be scary good with the system and learning in place!
Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
This is an "if" but not a "big if": What if those games we had lost by a point or two, or we hadn't made one goof that sent us into OT, what if those games had been W's instead of L's? It wouldn't have taken much for this team to be undefeated at this point, just a smidge away. What would the mood of this forum/thread be with what was the same team?
Agree, and will continue to watch this young team improve and develop. We can only hope upperclassmen show some leadership, without that we will continue to struggle. Mistakes come from lack of confidence and indecisive play. These are things that can be repaired with more experience . Faith in process, and damn happy BU is our coach.
Amen. We so many lazy passes. Start of the year, the passing looked so much crisper than less year. But we're regressing. Seems like we're giving up 2 or 3 passes for layups per game. There was one possession where we had something like four straight lazy passes, any one of which could have been taken the other way for a layup had NMSt been hunting it. I could hardly watch.
SKane
- Tennessee
To summarize, IL is overmatched and underdepthed at the 4 and 5. IL is very talented but underexperienced at SG and PG.
Conference play will expose these weaknesses even more than non-conference.
That said, next year's team should be better. The question will be whether IL will improve at a faster rate than the other conference teams will be improving.
Conference play will expose these weaknesses even more than non-conference.
That said, next year's team should be better. The question will be whether IL will improve at a faster rate than the other conference teams will be improving.
A true center and half those losses are wins. Not sure Ebo will be that player next year. Same team plus a transfer big or high impact freshmen big and this team can be top 20
IlliniDent
- Chicago, IL
No way we get a high impact freshman big next year. Flo and a transfer is about the best we can hope for
Deleted member 631370
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Agreed, but in all likelihood, I think we're going to rely on somebody to emerge in the spring or go all-in on a grad transfer. I just don't have the VIBES with Thamba.
Folks are just not watching the same games I am. :noidea:
Deleted member 631370
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You probably never pictured the 2004 Illini team -- circa December of 2003 after the Providence massacre or after losing at home to Purdue and then losing @ NW -- as a team that would go on to become the #1 team in the land the following year, did you?
You can't look at the team as it stands right now and project that image into next season. Ultimately, this is a conversation better had in March. If we're still losing every close game in March, then my outlook for next season is soured quite a bit. But I'm assuming a good deal of improvement and growth between then and now.
We return virtually the entire roster, sub in Ayo for Alstork, and will field a team that by then will have a full year of experience with this system. If you don't think that makes a significant difference, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
We have a lot of talent on this roster, but the talent is completely new to this system (and much of it is completely new to college basketball).
The only question is, how big a difference will it make? The answer to that rests on a few things: (1) How improved does Mark Smith become, (2) What do we add to our front court, and (3) how quickly does Ayo step in and assert himself as the PG.
If Smith figures it out.....if Ayo does what 5* PGs usually do......and if we add a quality big that can give us 15+ minutes, I think we have all the pieces for a very good basketball team. But those are really big IFs.
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We've had at least 4 tight and/or overtime games, and we lost them all. Who does that?
Regardless, the entire season up till this point has been practice. The most important game of the year is the Braggin' Rights game. This is serious. This is for real. For the person who lamented that his closet full of Illini gear remains unworn, I submit that being in St. Louis and sportin' the Orange is a huge risk. Split crowd roaring MIZ or ILL in the arena, two bands, and our coach hopefully in an Orange blazer. Their Golden Girls vs our not so golden cheerleaders. The loser's alumni have to go home hanging their heads in shame, unable to wear their sweatshirts when shopping at Lowe's the next day.
Regardless, the entire season up till this point has been practice. The most important game of the year is the Braggin' Rights game. This is serious. This is for real. For the person who lamented that his closet full of Illini gear remains unworn, I submit that being in St. Louis and sportin' the Orange is a huge risk. Split crowd roaring MIZ or ILL in the arena, two bands, and our coach hopefully in an Orange blazer. Their Golden Girls vs our not so golden cheerleaders. The loser's alumni have to go home hanging their heads in shame, unable to wear their sweatshirts when shopping at Lowe's the next day.
I do think it ought to make a big difference. We're probably two "big differences" from even squeaking into the tournament at this point.
We are really, really bad. That's what I mean by people not seeing the same games I am. "Oh but we've been really close!" doesn't mean a ton when you haven't played a game tougher than Maryland at home.
I hold out hope of improvement as this year goes along, but I was expecting improvement to this point too. It hasn't happened. If this is just our team this year, we'll finish below .500 on the season, fully healthy, against a very weak schedule. That wasn't the plan no matter what kind of post-hoc spin you put on it.
I'm afraid I have some bad news...