Northwestern 73, Illinois 60 Postgame

80'sIllini · Jan 5, 2023

IMPE ALL STAR said:
I need someone to tell me why Underwood’s teams at SF Austin were successful. DM if you want.

I have some good friends that are KSU guys and they were livid when KState hired Weber instead of Underwood. And they said we were the luckiest team in the world when we got Brad.

I totally bought in that the cupboard was empty when he got here. But man, without Ayo and/or Kofi, his teams here have looked pretty out of control, indisciplined, foul crazy etc.

As far as player development goes, who has Underwood really improved over the course of their Illinois career besides Ayo overall and Fraser defensively? Kofi slightly improved from the beginning of his freshman year through the end of his third year, but not by an impressive amount. DMW never got any better.Giorgi regressed from his freshman year. RJ seriously regressed from his flash of being good at end of last year.
None of these Illini teams under BU have consistently been fun to watch on offense, especially in the half court yet they hardly ever fast break.
For playing major minutes for the U 18 USA team Ty is a complete non contributer and Skyy has been as disappointing as BU’s teams have been in the NCAA tournament
I’ll grant BU big 10 season success but I’d much rather see us get to the sweet 16 and hopefully beyond that on a regular basis.
Can’t watch this team any longer- killed all my joy for this year. Have to start wondering about BU being the guy to really get this the Illini to be fun to support long term.

BretMyBeachHouse · Jan 5, 2023

ChiefGritty said:
The biggest basketball reason this team is falling apart is that we are now living in that risk scenario everyone identified before the season where we have no point guard. It's just that Clark's knee has nothing to do with it.

Epps is a true freshman playing out of position and giving us more than we could have possibly expected, but floor generalship isn't his game, he's a slasher/scorer.

Clark is just lost and his defense limits how much he can be out there.

And then that leads Hawkins to be in too much of a playmaking role, which clearly screws with his head and makes us a worse rebounding team, and it all tumbles downhill from there.

We needed another PG. Never get caught short of PG's or C's. Roster construction mistake.

Think of all the guys we couldn't get because Skyy had it all locked up.

SaintLIllini · Jan 5, 2023

epps is our best player

Illiniam1984 · Jan 5, 2023

ChiefGritty said:
The biggest basketball reason this team is falling apart is that we are now living in that risk scenario everyone identified before the season where we have no point guard. It's just that Clark's knee has nothing to do with it.

Epps is a true freshman playing out of position and giving us more than we could have possibly expected, but floor generalship isn't his game, he's a slasher/scorer.

Clark is just lost and his defense limits how much he can be out there.

And then that leads Hawkins to be in too much of a playmaking role, which clearly screws with his head and makes us a worse rebounding team, and it all tumbles downhill from there.

We needed another PG. Never get caught short of PG's or C's. Roster construction mistake.

Your correct, we could’ve used a veteran point guard. I think the staff was hoping that Skyy would’ve been that go to person to run the point before the season started but it appears they made a mistake.

IMPE ALL STAR · Jan 5, 2023

727ill said:
That’s my point. Unless you have an elite on-ball pick and roll player you are better off getting open via off-ball screens.

Other teams do it, and it causes us problems. They aren’t running Ayo types.

Pikeillinifan · Jan 5, 2023

Still on vacation in Florida with the family, so I didn’t see this one live - and I fell asleep at halftime (man aim getting old).

Glad I missed it, and it’s crazy, looking at the stats, I’d say the refs completely screwed us. But from what I see we just laid a giant egg (again).

I really hope we get things fixed. It is crazy how we went from thinking we had a Final Four team (potential that is), to this, in a couple weeks.

That said, I hope we right the ship and make the tourney, we still have a team that can make a decent run if we get hot.

Regardless, the world will keep spinning.

ChiefGritty · Jan 5, 2023

Illiniam1984 said:
Your correct, we could’ve used a veteran point guard. I think the staff was hoping that Skyy would’ve been that go to person to run the point before the season started but it appears they made a mistake.

All of that said, I think it's missing the mark to think there's a basketball solution to what is fundamentally a personal problem.

None of the major pieces of the puzzle, players or coaches, seem to like each other or have each other's back. It radiates off the screen and gets worse every game.

Asking why we played better in Vegas is a bit like asking why someone seemed happier with their girlfriend at the beginning. They didn't realize they didn't like each other yet.

DaChief4ever · Jan 5, 2023

The FOULING Illini......whew....

jason88cubs · Jan 5, 2023

ChiefGritty said:
All of that said, I think it's missing the mark to think there's a basketball solution to what is fundamentally a personal problem.

None of the major pieces of the puzzle, players or coaches, seem to like each other or have each other's back. It radiates off the screen and gets worse every game.

Asking why we played better in Vegas is a bit like asking why someone seemed happier with their girlfriend at the beginning. They didn't realize they didn't like each other yet.

It's like during the plane ride from NYC back to Champaign the truth came out or something about how they all felt about each other

I'm the guy

NO I am

No I am

No I am!

Illiniguy13 · Jan 5, 2023

CleverHandle1 said:
I know DD's not a dominating force like Kofi was, but make him the central point--an inside/out game, which should give guys like MM, TS and others better looks from the three-point line. This should aid Clark and Epps (maybe doesn't need as much help) in getting to the basket and dishing off to the open guy or having a good look at the basket with penetration. And with those athletes? Crash the damn board!

The problem is guys like Coleman make poor passes into the post and MM doesn't even look for him. This team is busted. The bright side is DD & Epps have all conference potential. Sencire will be one of the better defenders in the league & Sky has as much upside as anyone, if he chooses to stick around. Good pieces to build around after this season gets flushed down the toilet.

RockfordIllini · Jan 5, 2023

ChiefGritty said:
The biggest basketball reason this team is falling apart is that we are now living in that risk scenario everyone identified before the season where we have no point guard. It's just that Clark's knee has nothing to do with it.

Epps is a true freshman playing out of position and giving us more than we could have possibly expected, but floor generalship isn't his game, he's a slasher/scorer.

Clark is just lost and his defense limits how much he can be out there.

And then that leads Hawkins to be in too much of a playmaking role, which clearly screws with his head and makes us a worse rebounding team, and it all tumbles downhill from there.

We needed another PG. Never get caught short of PG's or C's. Roster construction mistake.

Still think Skyy has a good enough handle to run point, but woof has his defense been off the last couple of games. The play where he tried to switch off of the man in front of him who literally had the ball and led to a dunk/and 1 and Dain (who was some of our only consistent offense) picking up his second foul was sure something.

Funny thing is I don’t remember his defense being so bad early in the season. Is the switch everything concept just too complex? Has it gotten into his head so he’s just thinking rather than guarding?

I hate to say it, but I am starting to get Mark Smith/Trent Frazier vibes with the whole Skyy/Sencire situation right now. I realize Skyy is banged up but he’s clearly the third guard right now.

azillini1 · Jan 5, 2023

BU made post game comments about the very obvious lack of offensive movement and play running. He said they run the plays in practice. Well, I guess I am old school because I would pull the players, who do not play team basketball, and have them sit next to me on the bench if they won't run the offense, throw wild passes that end up as TO's,, and won't rebound. Play the players who want to play team basketball in the game.

It makes me sick to think that some of these players make much more than commentors on this board do working 50 to 70 hours a week. And, to know that my I-Fund contributions are being used to fund this mess. Time for some coach discipline.

727ill · Jan 5, 2023

IMPE ALL STAR said:
Other teams do it, and it causes us problems. They aren’t running Ayo types.

Who has run pick and roll effectively against us this year?

Aldy1955 · Jan 5, 2023

illiniswish09 said:
Jesus

!!!! the bed

ChiefGritty · Jan 5, 2023

azillini1 said:
It makes me sick to think that some of these players make much more than commentors on this board do working 50 to 70 hours a week.

Please understand that D1 basketball players are "on the clock" way, way, WAY more than any of us are.

It's a fun life if you love the game, but it is an absolute nonstop grind. That's a big reason why it's so important to trust and care about your teammates and coaches, and we're seeing what happens when that ingredient goes missing.

blackdog · Jan 5, 2023

ChiefGritty said:
The biggest basketball reason this team is falling apart is that we are now living in that risk scenario everyone identified before the season where we have no point guard. It's just that Clark's knee has nothing to do with it.

Epps is a true freshman playing out of position and giving us more than we could have possibly expected, but floor generalship isn't his game, he's a slasher/scorer.

Clark is just lost and his defense limits how much he can be out there.

And then that leads Hawkins to be in too much of a playmaking role, which clearly screws with his head and makes us a worse rebounding team, and it all tumbles downhill from there.

We needed another PG. Never get caught short of PG's or C's. Roster construction mistake.

I agree with you for the most part except about it being a roster construction mistake because that makes me think of Groce just whiffing completely.. We all thought we had our PG of the future with Curbelo after his freshman year. If things had gone anywhere close to what most were projecting after that season we could have an All-B1G player running the point. I don't think anyone could have anticipated how that blew up the way it did. The staff had to pick up the pieces and this is what we are left with.

Nuke Dukem · Jan 5, 2023

IlliniKat91 said:
This assumes TSJ, MM, and the freshmen give a damn what Ayo has to say. He doesn't mean anything to them in terms of a teammate or role model.

In fact, MM could just look at him and say, "I've won a natty. You never did." Hard to get buy in there

Maybe show these current players some footage of the 2004-2005 team playing as aTEAM. Remind them that they made it to all the way to the championship game. And by the way, all five starters also made to the NBA. But then again when I was 20ish, I thought I knew more than anybody so…

BashCtIllini · Jan 5, 2023

Goillinikobd said:
If I were still in the corporate world and tried to talk my way out of a bad project performance by blaming my team 100% after I hand picked them and got paid handsomely to do so, I might have been fired on the spot.

yes, I know they are only kids, not adults,,

These are not kids. These guys are over 18, many over 20, and many are already in the top 1% of earners in the world.

The don't be mean to the kids line went straight out the window as soon as they started accepting 10s and 100s of thousands of dollars. They are paid employees and right now many of them deserve to be fired.

I said very early in the season, I'd have this team working on dribbling drills in practice. Seemingly every time someone drove, they'd get the ball stripped. When we looked at a roster with Shannon, Mayer, Melendez, Hawkins we never said, man this team is going to make it rain and just kill teams from deep. We said, wow this is great length, should be killer on defense, and they should be able to get to the hoop. Driving to the hoop draws fouls and creates kickout opportunities for guys like Goode.

We're not driving, at all. And on the rare times we do, we're getting stripped. This offense is horrendous. With the length, athleticism, and versatility of our players, we should be giving defense fits. We should be setting back screens to get guys to the rim. Have we had a single alley oop this season? This team looks so much better when they're moving the ball. Sadly it doesn't happen often.

Underwood simply isn't earning his money this season. The reality is, we beat UCLA and Texas in large part because Shannon was on fire against UCLA and Mayer was on fire against Texas. If we didn't win those games and we're sitting here at 7-7, the pitchforks would really be out. The offense is horrible, the defense is worse, they can't make a FT, 3 pt shooting is embarassing, the effort is consistently lacking, and there is no leader. There is not a lot to hang our hats on. This is the team Underwood put together. The buck stops with him.

ChiefGritty · Jan 5, 2023

blackdog said:
I agree with you for the most part except about it being a roster construction mistake because that makes me think of Groce just whiffing completely.. We all thought we had our PG of the future with Curbelo after his freshman year. If things had gone anywhere close to what most were projecting after that season we could have an All-B1G player running the point. I don't think anyone could have anticipated how that blew up the way it did. The staff had to pick up the pieces and this is what we are left with.

I mean last offseason when we knew Curbelo was gone.

We absolutely could have brought in an experienced transfer PG. How bad would everybody love to hand starters minutes right now to a talent-limited tryhard who's been a seen-it-all floor general in the MAC the last four years? We could and should have that player.

I will say as an aside, Underwood and staff need to do some internal evaluation of why the last three players that the program has elevated from budding talented supporting cast player to focal point (Curbelo last year then RJ and Hawkins this year) have been total catastrophes. Shepherding that transition is the bread and butter of successful college basketball programs.

KOTC2 · Jan 5, 2023

Embarrassing performance, outplayed in virtually every area of the game. How in the hell did they beat Texas and UCLA?

Bucktown · Jan 5, 2023

ChiefGritty said:
The biggest basketball reason this team is falling apart is that we are now living in that risk scenario everyone identified before the season where we have no point guard. It's just that Clark's knee has nothing to do with it.

Epps is a true freshman playing out of position and giving us more than we could have possibly expected, but floor generalship isn't his game, he's a slasher/scorer.

Clark is just lost and his defense limits how much he can be out there.

And then that leads Hawkins to be in too much of a playmaking role, which clearly screws with his head and makes us a worse rebounding team, and it all tumbles downhill from there.

We needed another PG. Never get caught short of PG's or C's. Roster construction mistake.

Agree we have a lot of 'scoring' guards but no distributors. Dain is often open on his roll and never gets the ball.

MadtownIllin · Jan 5, 2023

Recipe for craphumble pie:

1. Take 15 turnovers and convert them into 22 points for the opponent
2. Combine in 29% 3 point shooting and allow the opponent to shoot 39%
3. Mix in allowing a 40 to 10 free throw attempt margin by opponent resulting in a 26 point difference
4. Thoroughly blend by dribbling and cutting without a purpose
5. Sprinkle liberally with a lack of team chemistry
6. Allow coach to bake at 350 for 40 minutes, although the temperature varied between 350 and nuclear, but didn't seem to have any effect on the result
7. Serve hot and steamy to Illini fandom for a long, cold winter
Bon a petite!

Illiniguy13 · Jan 5, 2023

211EastDaniels said:
A couple of things. Worst Illini offensive performance in years. No movement, no driving to the rim, no pick and roll action. Five guys standing outside the 3-point line incapable of creating there own shot (MM excepted), lousy ball handling - looks like they are playing with a lopsided ball, total YMCA gym rats lack of coordination.

Defense is OK, but too many reaching fouls, no commitment to guarding with your feet.

Lastly, somebody needs to explain to me why the portal and NIL hurts our team, and not our opponents. Hmmm?

There are other transfers via the portal who are not gelling with their new teams. Michigan's transfer point guard was brutal prior to his injury, as an example. It will continue to happen with some players. This is a massive learning lesson for BU - the culture cannot be sacrificed at any cost. I'd be surprised if we see these issues again on future rosters. On paper, our transfers made a ton of sense - but TS isn't a leader & Coleman is having mental lapses that no amount of coaching can fix. Oh, and Matthew Mayer is not an everyday guy.

Pennsy · Jan 5, 2023

SaintLIllini said:
epps is our best player

So is Dainja.
Coleman Hawkins is an offensive liability out there. He may as well launch them from half court.

727ill · Jan 5, 2023

ChiefGritty said:
I mean last offseason when we knew Curbelo was gone.

We absolutely could have brought in an experienced transfer PG. How bad would everybody love to hand starters minutes right now to a talent-limited tryhard who's been a seen-it-all floor general in the MAC the last four years? We could and should have that player.

I will say as an aside, Underwood and staff need to do some internal evaluation of why the last three players that the program has elevated from budding talented supporting cast player to focal point (Curbelo last year then RJ and Hawkins this year) have been total catastrophes. Shepherding that transition is the bread and butter of successful college basketball programs.

Not getting a mid-major transfer point guard was a miss. I'm sure it's going to be on Brad's radar next year. There is nobody on the current roster who you trust to run the point guard position effectively next year.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Brad get a multi-year player out of the portal.