Pregame: Illinois at Maryland, Saturday, October 14th, 2:30pm CT, NBC

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#126      
This game will be in the middle of a full day of rain, which might make things sloppy enough for us to have a chance.

But I'm actually gonna predict a 3+ score loss....

Adverse conditions do favor the underdog.

However, I agree that we will not be able to keep this close.

Our OL is bad and our play calling is worse.

We can see if these Central Illinois running backs can provide a jolt. We hear a lot of hype about them from the locals. Not sure the OL is going to give them much to work with.
 
#127      
We'll be there getting soaked, while my daughter and our Terp son-in-law head for dry cover. My wife, my college sweetheart, and I have never left a game early, but this is going to be a tough one. She got her PhD at Maryland but it Orange and Blue through and through.

My worries game-wise? We've only been able to move the ball in the air, and wet conditions won't help that. I just hope the O-line can open some creases for Feagan to exploit.
 
#128      

RedRocksIllini

Morrison, CO
This game will be in the middle of a full day of rain, which might make things sloppy enough for us to have a chance.

But I'm actually gonna predict a 3+ score loss....
According to the internets, Maryland plays on something called FieldTurf (same thing we have). Rain could still be a factor but we'd better hope for a Caddyshack-level storm.
 
#130      
freshman running backs. not usually a good sign for early success. Feagan has the body, but has never seen
the kind of battering he'll take. Lets hope they both stay healthy and don't take a step backwards. OL getting
healthy might be our saving grace. in the rain a good center push with some seams could be effective in
controlling the clock, keeping the ball away from the terps offense.
 
#131      

Epsilon

M tipping over
Pdx
Vegas/books do not care about predicting the score nor are they in that business. As stated by Mr. Tibbs, they set the line to get action (preferably even action); when betters start heavily betting Maryland ATS (as some on the board are wishing to do), then the line will begin to balloon. I believe that the line will ultimately settle around Maryland -18 to -20 when all is said and done by kickoff, possibly even higher. We have already seen books move 2 to 3 points already. Don't expect that to stop. The conservative range for final spread will be anywhere from -14.5 to -24.5.

I do scratch my head slightly why the line started so close, but it might be the way the second half went for Maryland last week. My honest guess is that the books wanted to get money in on this game, so the spread started at a ridiculously low number and will adjust to market factors.
An interesting study in behavioral economics there for the taking.
 
#132      
they arent predicting the score will be 12 points apart
they just set the line at a number they think they will get even money wagered on both sides
yea, sometimes it moves a little during the week

but I agree with you in general , I think it should be set more like at 18 or 19 , but what do we know?
This is a common misconception but very wrong. Vegas books don't set lines trying get "even" money wagered on both sides.
 
#133      

cuillini

San Bernardino, Ca.
This is a common misconception but very wrong. Vegas books don't set lines trying get "even" money wagered on both sides.
Maryland is 5-1. They have played probably the weakest schedule in the conference. That being said, we are improving on defense, but our offense is just plain awful. To me, UI +14 sounds about right.
 
#134      

Illini2010-11

Sugar Grove
This is a common misconception but very wrong. Vegas books don't set lines trying get "even" money wagered on both sides.
I am not sure where you got that bit of information, but unless you can elaborate on that point, I could not disagree more. The books want to generally target "even" money wagered on both sides of the spread bets (completely different game for prop bets and ML bets). If they did not care about getting "even" money on each end, then the line would not move like it does between opening and closing line. In general, with more information available to bettors, the opening line is usually a decent predictive measure of the game, as the books do not want lopsided bets if they can help it (the bettor is more educated today than anytime before). In any event, the book is trying to not predict the score, but rather, get action on the game (and close to even money on each side).

As a rule of thumb, if the book successfully gets even money on each side of a spread bet, then they make 10% commission on each bet placed (as spread bets are typically -110 for each side). That is a much lower risk level for the books than having substantially unbalanced action. They already take enough risk in the ML bets; they definitely do not want the spread bets to have similar levels of risk.
 
#135      
I am not sure where you got that bit of information, but unless you can elaborate on that point, I could not disagree more. The books want to generally target "even" money wagered on both sides of the spread bets (completely different game for prop bets and ML bets). If they did not care about getting "even" money on each end, then the line would not move like it does between opening and closing line. In general, with more information available to bettors, the opening line is usually a decent predictive measure of the game, as the books do not want lopsided bets if they can help it (the bettor is more educated today than anytime before). In any event, the book is trying to not predict the score, but rather, get action on the game (and close to even money on each side).

As a rule of thumb, if the book successfully gets even money on each side of a spread bet, then they make 10% commission on each bet placed (as spread bets are typically -110 for each side). That is a much lower risk level for the books than having substantially unbalanced action. They already take enough risk in the ML bets; they definitely do not want the spread bets to have similar levels of risk.
It doesn't work that way. Sure they have to decrease their risk of loss and can't have their position be completely at risk. There will always be some balance and the odds can be shifted. But they are NOT in the business of just collecting vig. You can even see from the guys who do it. “That’s a fallacy,” former William Hill and Caesars Sportsbook director Nick Bogdanovich said. “It never happens that way. The books always have decisions. That’s the bottom line. And some are bigger than others.”

“Ideally, if you could be in that position, it would be great. But it’s somewhat of a myth to be able to divide action equally on every game,” he said. “We’re going to have a vested interest in every game in every sport.” said Red Rock Resort sportsbook director Chuck Esposito.

Vegas actually takes a position in most of the games. They trust that the guys who set their lines are so good at their job that they are trusting them to actually gamble with their lines to win money. The quotes are from the below, but any interview you see with the the actual oddsmakers, they always scoff and laugh at the notion that they are just collecting vig and collecting even $.

 
#136      
We'll be there getting soaked, while my daughter and our Terp son-in-law head for dry cover. My wife, my college sweetheart, and I have never left a game early, but this is going to be a tough one. She got her PhD at Maryland but it Orange and Blue through and through.

My worries game-wise? We've only been able to move the ball in the air, and wet conditions won't help that. I just hope the O-line can open some creases for Feagan to exploit.
How's that work? Do you sit between them?
 
#137      
And tbh that article lets the oddsmakers not say what is the truth of the matter, which is the sportsbooks are not paying all that money for the the best algorithms, research, and resources in the world just to collect vig. They are very sure they can, on average, beat the public and they are usually right.
 
#138      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
do Casinos gamble with their money and take chances ? sure , its their business. Binion would famously accept any bet
but the vast majority of the revenue that pays the bills, comes from the vig just like collecting the 4%-5% off slots
the vig on sports bets and the locked on 4%-10% on table games is what builds those places. not the winnings on getting the right side of ND-USC

and if a casino takes in a large bet on a side they dont want to be on, they are known to call around to other joints in an attempt to lay off some of that imbalance on a casino willing to take it, in the hopes of getting more " balanced "

making the guaranteed vig is what pays the bills. winning "bets" is gravy
 
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#139      

Illini2010-11

Sugar Grove
It doesn't work that way. Sure they have to decrease their risk of loss and can't have their position be completely at risk. There will always be some balance and the odds can be shifted. But they are NOT in the business of just collecting vig. You can even see from the guys who do it. “That’s a fallacy,” former William Hill and Caesars Sportsbook director Nick Bogdanovich said. “It never happens that way. The books always have decisions. That’s the bottom line. And some are bigger than others.”

“Ideally, if you could be in that position, it would be great. But it’s somewhat of a myth to be able to divide action equally on every game,” he said. “We’re going to have a vested interest in every game in every sport.” said Red Rock Resort sportsbook director Chuck Esposito.

Vegas actually takes a position in most of the games. They trust that the guys who set their lines are so good at their job that they are trusting them to actually gamble with their lines to win money. The quotes are from the below, but any interview you see with the the actual oddsmakers, they always scoff and laugh at the notion that they are just collecting vig and collecting even $.

Thank you. Interesting read. I completely agree with their approach in regard to risk, and I was slightly exaggerated with my statement. A lot of game theory involved, and I know that they side with sharp bettors and their own models. However, as I stated, the lines have no real basis in trying to be predictive in nature (which the original poster mentioned much earlier in the thread). However, it is still definitely true that balance is important to them. I stand by my point that their opening lines are designed to entice action (with the risk they are willing to accept based on their true predictive analytics), but maintaining balance is still important to them (that is why I said "close" to even money).

Vegas never simply sets their lines on what they think will happen. Many factors are involved.
 
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#141      
Sooner or later we are going to surprise someone. Perhaps this week?
 
#143      

Illini2010-11

Sugar Grove
do Casinos gamble with their money and take chances ? sure , its their business. Binion would famously accept any bet
but the vast majority of the revenue that pays the bills, comes from the vig just like collecting the 4%-5% off slots
the vig on sports bets and the locked on 4%-10% on table games is what builds those places. not the winnings on getting the right side of ND-USC

and if a casino takes in a large bet on a side they dont want to be on, they are known to call around to other joints in an attempt to lay off some of that imbalance on a casino willing to take it, in the hopes of getting more " balanced "

making the guaranteed vig is what pays the bills. winning "bets" is gravy
100% accurate. Casinos will always take on calculated risk (even bad risk at times when they know the bettor will lose it back), but the vig runs the joint.

In a perfect world, if the book could perfectly guarantee equal action on both ends 100% of the time with no risk of loss, they would (10% risk free rake on the millions gambled daily would keep things running easily). It is virtually impossible to do in practice (as article points out due to many factors involved), so they take on calculated risk, especially if they perceive an advantage worth exploiting.

But to suggest they don't target getting "even" bets on average is laughable. Imagine the book saying they want to open the line with goal of having 70% of bets on one end, their risk analysts (and funders) would laugh them out of room. The weight of bets might ultimately go that route, but it is definitely not their intention at the opening line.
 
#146      
A lot of people going to lose money when we win. It’s all going to click and this team is going to break out. Look out MerryLand - we’ll wipe that smile off your faces.
You should probably start thinking about cancelling your hotel reservation in Indy or else you will be losing money
 
#148      
Not to be rude but you guys just don’t understand how the modern Sportsbook works. It’s way more advanced than that. Obviously they can’t lose their position but it’s way more complicated than what you’re saying.
 
#149      
do Casinos gamble with their money and take chances ? sure , its their business. Binion would famously accept any bet
but the vast majority of the revenue that pays the bills, comes from the vig just like collecting the 4%-5% off slots
the vig on sports bets and the locked on 4%-10% on table games is what builds those places. not the winnings on getting the right side of ND-USC

and if a casino takes in a large bet on a side they dont want to be on, they are known to call around to other joints in an attempt to lay off some of that imbalance on a casino willing to take it, in the hopes of getting more " balanced "

making the guaranteed vig is what pays the bills. winning "bets" is gravy
Hi I have the leading minds on every angle of a game. I’m here to collect the vig and not win $ from some bozo who had a good feeling about a game from his cup of coffee. Does that makes sense to you?
 
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