Pregame: Illinois vs Minnesota, Saturday, February 4th, 3:00pm CT, BTN
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Illinifan533
- Normal, Illinois
Shouldn't this be something you have figured out by this point in the season? At this rate you won't get the right rotation till the Big Ten tourney :tsk:
Do you think Groce's comments regarding substitutions implies they are just looking at this now in earnest? That he is just now getting personally involved in that aspect?
What changes do you all expect to see him willing to make?
Personally, I believe 5 of our losses could be attributed to poor substitutions and minutes distribution. This is not even taking into account compounding gains by playing the younger guys more during the non-con.
What changes do you all expect to see him willing to make?
Personally, I believe 5 of our losses could be attributed to poor substitutions and minutes distribution. This is not even taking into account compounding gains by playing the younger guys more during the non-con.
Even if you are truly studying substitution patterns it might be a bad thing to say at this point. I see the twitter reaction of people saying "just now?"
Coach has undoubtedly heard the collective screams of the public questioning this very thing. I'm assuming this is lip service from the coach to fans but it has a bad look as if you are just now thinking about it.
Coach has undoubtedly heard the collective screams of the public questioning this very thing. I'm assuming this is lip service from the coach to fans but it has a bad look as if you are just now thinking about it.
It was a response to a question at a press conference. I don't think it means that much.
Obviously they've been looking at the rotation for a while now.
Hey Dan, can we get an eye roll emoji?
Kid gets 2 shots a game in 17 minutes, and people act like he's the biggest reason we're bad. Just so unnecessary. If anything, call out Groce for either (1) the missed evaluation or (2) the lack of development. I just don't get why everyone goes in so hard on Tate when he's just a bench guy as-is. It's not like he's demanding more minutes to the media or taking a lot of junk shots (not that anyone is doing the former, but we have, well, most of the roster doing the latter)
Deleted member 16340
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As opposed to TA?
I agree...get off the Tate hate
Jaylon Tate plays his heart out everytime he's in the game as well as at practice. When 'fans' boo our own players, what a picture that paints for visiting recruits. Why would any recruit want to play for a school with a fanbase that turns on individual players when the TEAM does not perform to expectations. If you want to boo and jeer our coach when he's introduced, then have at it if that's your style, but booing when he inserts certain players into the game can only be interpreted as directed at the player. Tate and every player who plays for 'our' team deserve much better.
Jaylon Tate plays his heart out everytime he's in the game as well as at practice. When 'fans' boo our own players, what a picture that paints for visiting recruits. Why would any recruit want to play for a school with a fanbase that turns on individual players when the TEAM does not perform to expectations. If you want to boo and jeer our coach when he's introduced, then have at it if that's your style, but booing when he inserts certain players into the game can only be interpreted as directed at the player. Tate and every player who plays for 'our' team deserve much better.
Oh Yeah! And then boy lookout. It's Groce's "rope a dope" strategy. Finish near the bottom of the conference and just when no one is expecting it, WHAM! BTT champions! It's a down year in the B1G!
TruIllini89
Prime Сasual Dating - Genuine Ladies
- Usa
=Head Coach! :thumb:
MrOizo
- Chicago
When I read this... "Groce: We're looking at the substitution pattern. When to sub. Combos that work together. Lineups to avoid. We're looking at it all."
I nearly spit my coffee out. Why does it seem that we always recognize things before this staff? I honestly didn't feel smarter than Bill Self, Krueger, or Weber and their staffs. Sometimes I would get frustrated, but then I would ultimately agree with most of what they did.
The current staff seems to have a set of rules that they trust that defy reality. Here they are, wondering if those rules actually are working... it's waaaay too late for that, guys. Go ahead and tweak away, but you're shuffling chairs on a sinking ship by this point. You needed to make these moves long ago.
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MrOizo
- Chicago
But what about that fact that it hasn't been figured out yet? What about the fact that we still see them put lineups out there where both the PG and SG can't shoot well and either pass up shots or have defenders blatantly sag off of them?
More to the point, how do we get to a point where we see less of the offensively-challenged players he seems to be commenting on (Tate, Abrams, Thorne) and more of the bench guys that could possibly spark the offense more (Finke, perhaps DJW or AJ)?
This hasn't been hard to see since non-con (Tate) and early big ten (Abrams).
Tate, in my opinion, is a decent backup point guard. It isn't Tate's fault that Groce didn't land a decent starting point guard until year five.
This is going to be the legacy of this staff. Reacting way too slowly and sticking to their guns long after it becomes counterproductive. Be it sub patterns, pregames, starters, or presser comments.
Given the state of my Illini psyche, I see a victory happening, for the sole reason that I might consider not even watching the next game.
Could possibly move up to 11th place in the Big Ten!
But God knows I will watch it, unless there is a power and/or cable outage. It would be nice to be looking forward to it.
Go Illini!
Could possibly move up to 11th place in the Big Ten!But God knows I will watch it, unless there is a power and/or cable outage. It would be nice to be looking forward to it.
Go Illini!
MrOizo
- Chicago
Agreed. Impossible to say what the root cause exactly, but the result seems to be sticking to things that aren't working.
In the end, issues are so obvious to fans that the pressure builds. A groundswell forces *seems* to become apparent to the staff, which suddenly makes the change and it improves things (a little). To say the least, that doesn't build confidence...
Jalen Coleman-Hands
Here's a little piece on JCL and his shooting as related to his hand injury:
http://www.sj-r.com/sports/20170203/illinois-coleman-lands-works-to-overcome-shooting-woes
Interestingly, the article points out (with numbers to back it up) that JCL shoots at a better clip when starting versus coming off the bench. I hadn't realized that. Personally, I feel JCL isn't hitting as much partially due to actually being scouted this season. Defenses tends to react strongly when he's left open.
Here's a little piece on JCL and his shooting as related to his hand injury:
http://www.sj-r.com/sports/20170203/illinois-coleman-lands-works-to-overcome-shooting-woes
Interestingly, the article points out (with numbers to back it up) that JCL shoots at a better clip when starting versus coming off the bench. I hadn't realized that. Personally, I feel JCL isn't hitting as much partially due to actually being scouted this season. Defenses tends to react strongly when he's left open.
Is it me, or is nobody talking about the game this afternoon? Aren't we at this time of day, just six hours before the start of the game, be talking about the game?
In a real world it would.
But we're living in a surreal world.
Only the hardcore care at this point. I cannot believe I was so indifferent at this point that I forgot they were even playing last Tuesday. I used to have reminders on my calendar to make sure I didn't miss anything.
And, it is to the point that my boys would rather watch someone else. That is where I think it really hurts. You can't continue to be bad for so long without risking losing a generation of fans. Ten years of bad basketball and football is simply demoralizing. It becomes more satisfying to go to the dentist.
Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
And even the hardcore (us) aren't talking about the upcoming game (in the pregame discussion thread) but rather the state of the team via a vis coach overall. Sad indeed.
This is the balance of coaching. Being able to recognize when something is coming together slowly and sticking it out to maximize your potential (gel), or recognizing that no matter how long you stick it out it won't work. I honestly think about half of coaches will stick to their guns if they're gonna go down, and the other half will throw a million things against the wall and see what sticks. Just personal philosophy. I honestly don't know that one is better than the other.
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